TimTaylor751647545500 Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 In the next couple of weeks I am taking on a decent project in the installation of a 12'x12' paver patio. I picked up a lot of 16"x16" concrete pavers off CL for a good deal and will be doing the work myself. It's been a long time since I've done anything similar to this type of project and I'm not exactly sure what the best layout will be for the base. From what I've been reading, a good 4" gravel base topped with 1" of sand is preferred, but I'm not really sure I'll end up needing 4" worth of gravel due to the size of the pavers. I'll get some pictures of the area where the patio will be installed as well as the actual pavers I'll be using. Any thoughts on what might work best for this type of install? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokin5s Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 gravel and sand man... and TAMP the shit out of it... you can borrow my hand tamper if you'd like since it's a pretty small area you're doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTaylor751647545500 Posted September 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 If you've got one, that will save me the hassle of buying one. I'll shoot you a PM as I reach that point. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bahd-ler Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 PM me, I have the knowledge and resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrblunt Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Jake, twistedrx7, did a spectacular job on my patio. I can post some pics if you like but I'd highly recommend reaching out to him. The man knows his $hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evan9381 Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 i didnt find a gravel base under the one i just pulled up...but at the same time, thats probably why the edges were uneven as hell and looked like shit. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedrx7 Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Hey just saw this, you really do not want to a hand tamp over that whole thing. For one you will wear yourself out and two it will not compact very well. You will end up having spots sinking on you. It is better to just rent a compactor, or i can probably help you out. I personally like to do 6 inches of #411 and 1 inch of #9's. Sand will just move on you and will not lock together. you will also need a few things. a set of 1 inch poles and a board to get a nice level one inch for laying the pavers on after the base is set. A four foot level will also be needed to set slope up otherwise you will have watering pooling. A laser to figure out your depth is also a plus. Ive done this for a long time so if you want some help let me know. Here is chads patio i helped him with. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c168/twistedrx7/0627091128.jpg And a couple others http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c168/twistedrx7/0730091805.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c168/twistedrx7/0730091806.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c168/twistedrx7/0730091805.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c168/twistedrx7/0806091617a.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c168/twistedrx7/0806091616c.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c168/twistedrx7/0806091617b.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam1647545489 Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Jake those last 2 pics, is the floor a tile or paver. If paver which ones are they. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedrx7 Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Travertine, it's the paver version. They make a tile version as well. The paver is 1.25 inches thick. We have it imported from turkey. Runs around 7.50/sqft uninstalled. Colors http://www.stone-network.com/turkey/travertine/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrblunt Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 That stuff looks awesome. Thanks for posting the pic of my place. It fails horribly in comparison to the rest of your shots. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Rex Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Although I am certainly no expert like Jake, I did do my own paver patio. I will say that renting the compactor is the way to go. You will kill yourself trying to tamp all that stuff properly with a hand tamper. I did 6" of gravel with 1" of sand on top (Get paver sand not masonry sand like I did). The reason I did 6" of gravel is because I live a bit further north and it really does get colder here (Close to Cleveland) than in Columbus and you can get, what I believe the professionals call, "Heave" (sp?) where the bricks will push out and up and every direction when it gets cold then warm and cycles. Without the proper base you will have more of that (I may be wrong here but that is I thought I remember reading, Jake will probably tell us something different ). Edit: Also, try to tamp your gravel every two inches in depth. IE put two inches down, tamp, another two inches tamp, etc etc. I did not tamp the sand, I don't remember seeing anywhere saying you should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedrx7 Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Yes every two inches is correct, tamp every two. I still would not use sand at all on top for the last inch. #9's are the way to go. It is easier to work with and locks together to provide more strength. You do not tamp the #9s at all by themselves. However, when you are done laying the patio out and cutting it in if needed, you sweep a polymer sand over top and tamp out your pavers. This will compact them nice and tight to the ground while at the same time vibrating the polymer sand into the cracks. Once done you sweep off the remaining polymer sand wet it down to activate the polymer to harden. I prefer not to use edging as well for patios. It always tends to rise back up and get pushed out by the dirt. If it is the type of edging that goes under the soldier (outside paver) it will uplift that as well. Mortar works a lot better and will not move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS69 Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Jake you do excellent work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bahd-ler Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Yes every two inches is correct, tamp every two. I still would not use sand at all on top for the last inch. #9's are the way to go. It is easier to work with and locks together to provide more strength. You do not tamp the #9s at all by themselves. However, when you are done laying the patio out and cutting it in if needed, you sweep a polymer sand over top and tamp out your pavers. This will compact them nice and tight to the ground while at the same time vibrating the polymer sand into the cracks. Once done you sweep off the remaining polymer sand wet it down to activate the polymer to harden. I prefer not to use edging as well for patios. It always tends to rise back up and get pushed out by the dirt. If it is the type of edging that goes under the soldier (outside paver) it will uplift that as well. Mortar works a lot better and will not move. x2... Agreed, It seems more and more people are using 9's, as they "most" likely drain better, compact a little nicer without the "bigger variables as sand. I see more and more commercial jobs calling for 9's. I would take the time/money to rent a compactor, just because it does a nicer job on the base and tamping the pavers at the end. Jake is also right with the polymeric sand, for Ants and Moss can't work their way in the cracks of your pavers. One thing I have found is to save a buck, sweep your cracks in with concrete sand, then tamp your pavers.... finishing off with re-sweeping using the polymeric (for that stuff can get real pricey). Also make sure before you water/MIST to activate the polymeric to have the pavers completly clean for the glue in the sand can stain your pavers (might use a leaf blower just letting it idle, and being careful). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedrx7 Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 I disagree with using concrete sand to sweep in first. The more space for the polymeric sand to fall into cracks the better it will tighten up. If you have polymeric sand on top of the concrete sand it will be lose at the bottom and eventually break the thin polymeric sand layer on top. It is a bad idea. Save the 10 bucks you are going to save and do it right. 1 bag = 80-100sqft of polymeric sand. you would need 2 bags and have half a bag left over. You are looking at 50 bucks for the sand. It is worth the investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bahd-ler Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 I disagree with using concrete sand to sweep in first. The more space for the polymeric sand to fall into cracks the better it will tighten up. If you have polymeric sand on top of the concrete sand it will be lose at the bottom and eventually break the thin polymeric sand layer on top. It is a bad idea. Save the 10 bucks you are going to save and do it right. 1 bag = 80-100sqft of polymeric sand. you would need 2 bags and have half a bag left over. You are looking at 50 bucks for the sand. It is worth the investment. I deffinantly see your point, and agree. I thought the sand was a little more pricey than that. I have done this on "used" patio's to prevent moss and it works fine. Either way I think the sand acts more as a barrier than a bond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTaylor751647545500 Posted September 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 A few pictures. Got a lot of the work done Friday till I lost daylight, then the rains came Saturday. Probably going to have to touch up the sand a bit before I get the pavers down. Feedback welcome. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/TimTaylor75/Patio/DSC02146.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/TimTaylor75/Patio/DSC02147.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/TimTaylor75/Patio/DSC02148.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/TimTaylor75/Patio/DSC02149.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedrx7 Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 You have a few low spots towards the end of the sand. I hope you didnt get sand, and got #9's. Also you want mind to put a little more 9's down where your poles are. It looks like the level goes up and down a little. How many inches of sand/9's did you put down? Ps it is hard to level with PVC pipe. It will flex in every direction on you and throw off your level a little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTaylor751647545500 Posted September 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Yeah, ran out of light when we were working with the leveling. Def have to add more after the rain as well. +1 on the PVC...so far, it's been a PITA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedrx7 Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 metal pipe works best that is 1 inch for an outer diameter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTaylor751647545500 Posted October 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Today's progress. Worked on setting the pavers for about 2 & 1/2 hours before the rain started. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/TimTaylor75/Patio/DSC02157.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/TimTaylor75/Patio/DSC02158.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/TimTaylor75/Patio/DSC02159.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/TimTaylor75/Patio/DSC02160.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/TimTaylor75/Patio/DSC02161.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01sentrase2.0 Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 progress looks good man. damn the rain. can't wait to see the finished product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedrx7 Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 looks good. If you want to break up your lines more you can alternate a half piece on that second row at the top and bottom. That way the patio is locking into each other instead of each row. Why did you spend so much time smoothing out your sand if you were going to walk on it??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTaylor751647545500 Posted October 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 I've thought about offsetting the courses. Might still do that. The rain smoothed out the sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTaylor751647545500 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 About another hour's worth of progress tonight. Hoping to wrap it up tomorrow on my day off. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/TimTaylor75/Patio/DSC02293.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/TimTaylor75/Patio/DSC02297.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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