Lettuce talk gold coins

[HAOLE]

Hypothetical question;)

 

If I sold something that is worth ~150k and asked to be paid in ~150 American eagle coins, do I pay capital gains on the ~150k value or the $7500 face value of the coins?

[Dave1647545494]

the 150k american eagle gold coins are paid out in weight now not face value

[Tractor]

Capital gains are just that, tax on the $$$ you gained. If someone brings my wife a gold coin or a silver dollar they get the value of the denomination printed on the coin. Stupid mistake and she takes them to Allens coin shop asap.

 

If your gonna do anything with large sums of capital gains better do it before 2010 ends. cap gains tax is going up per the bush tax cut way back in `00-01 expiring.

[LJ]

Basically, what Tractor is saying, is that you will eventually pay the capital gains at some point.

[HAOLE]

Capital gains are just that, tax on the $$$ you gained. If someone brings my wife a gold coin or a silver dollar they get the value of the denomination printed on the coin. Stupid mistake and she takes them to Allens coin shop asap.

 

If your gonna do anything with large sums of capital gains better do it before 2010 ends. cap gains tax is going up per the bush tax cut way back in `00-01 expiring.

 

Since the coins are legal tender and the face value of each 1oz coin is $50, I am thinking I would only declare the face value not the intrinsic value.

[LJ]

Since the coins are legal tender and the face value of each 1oz coin is $50, I am thinking I would only declare the face value not the intrinsic value.

 

If you just held them as a lifetime investment, you might get away with it.

 

If you were to hold for a few months then sell, you would need to pay capital gains tax then, obviously with your gain being 150,000-7500 (because technically you sold the item for $7500)= 142,500. If you got caught not paying, you would most likely get charged with tax evasion.

 

In other words, you owe the capital gains tax at some point. I'm not positive on it, but you would have to file proper paperwork for a 1031 exchange tax shelter for real property being exchanged in lieu of profit as an investment, of course, if the item you are selling was some type of investment vehicle (which if you were to claim the full value of the gold, you may be able to claim it as an investment vehicle, but doubtful).

 

In other words, in my professional opinion, you are playing with fire.

 

(I am not an expert on 1031's. I have been involved in one, but it took a team of lawyers and a CPA that specializes in exchanges, so it's not a typical thing)

[Tractor]

I'd claim face value and stick to my guns if questioned. "Oh I could have sold them for a lot more? Sucks for me, I deposited them into an online bank account"

[LJ]

I'd claim face value and stick to my guns if questioned. "Oh I could have sold them for a lot more? Sucks for me, I deposited them into an online bank account"

 

But to sell them you would have to

A. Sell them to individuals

B. Have a really good relationship with a shop who won't log them

C. Sell for less money to a shady ass operation.

[Tractor]

But to sell them you would have to

A. Sell them to individuals

B. Have a really good relationship with a shop who won't log them

C. Sell for less money to a shady ass operation.

 

Individuals sell cars for $100 all the time to avoid taxes. Not saying its right just saying its pretty standard.

[LJ]

Individuals sell cars for $100 all the time to avoid taxes. Not saying its right just saying its pretty standard.

 

gold coins /= cars at all. There is a much broader market for cars, you don't have to piece out $150,000 worth of car to individuals, and you aren't dealing with such high dollar amounts. Plus that is to avoid SALES tax from the state and county. It's a lot different short changing the state a couple hundred bucks vs the Feds $42,000 in short term (record the sale as $7500 then pay on the coins later) or $22,500 for long term.

 

It's NOT standard to avoid paying capital gains on $150k. That's tax fraud and will most likely at least land you on probation if not pound me in the ass prison.

 

I deal a lot with Eddie at Allen's and Tom at AGE and neither would not record the sale.

[Tractor]

Does everything have to be an argument on the internet? Not intending it for sure. If I had a enough in gold coins to unload that I'd be paying cap gains I wouldn't take them to Allens, everyone knows Gonzo's is the place for that type of transaction anyway.

[Guest tbutera2112]

Individuals sell cars for $100 all the time to avoid taxes. Not saying its right just saying its pretty standard.

 

got caught doing this once...used to get away with it all the time, but now the gov is cracking down and auditing bank accounts and all kinds of shit...they sent me a letter telling me i owe them tax money for the car and they even put in the letter how much i paid (minus my deposit, that i paid a few days earlier)....they musta checked the dudes bank account and saw the large deposit the same day the car was moved outta his name

 

 

theyre not fucking around with the tax shit anymore

[thorne]

Hypothetical question;)

 

If I sold something that is worth ~150k and asked to be paid in ~150 American eagle coins, do I pay capital gains on the ~150k value or the $7500 face value of the coins?

 

you need to use the AMERO hale turner.

[HAOLE]

Interesting case!

 

[TTQ B4U]

Interesting case!

 

 

 

Very interesting. I want more!!

[Guest Spam]

Fuck the Govt!

[LJ]

Does everything have to be an argument on the internet? Not intending it for sure. If I had a enough in gold coins to unload that I'd be paying cap gains I wouldn't take them to Allens, everyone knows Gonzo's is the place for that type of transaction anyway.

 

I just deal in gold coins a lot. Like, 10-15 transactions per month. The gov't gets picky on shit.

[LJ]

Very interesting. I want more!!

 

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/aug/14/jury-convicts-business-owner-robert-kahre-tax-frau/

[HAOLE]

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/aug/14/jury-convicts-business-owner-robert-kahre-tax-frau/

 

What I think is a load of crap is the fact that the government produced the coins, they set the face value and they distribute the coin, Then they get all bent out of shape for someone using the coin at face value they set.

 

If I walked into a store and bought a candy bar, and paid for it with a pre 64 silver dollar, would the store honor the face value of the coin or give me 7 dollars back for the difference in the intrinsic value? I bet I would not get the change back.

[TTQ B4U]

If I walked into a store and bought a candy bar, and paid for it with a pre 64 silver dollar, would the store honor the face value of the coin or give me 7 dollars back for the difference in the intrinsic value? I bet I would not get the change back.

 

Exactly. Something tells me if you did the deal and offered to pay them the taxes in those very same coins, they wouldn't give you anything but face value either.

 

Find a way to hide it. I have a master of such shit in the family. They won't have a dime left for the gov't to try and tax when they die. N

[Doug1647545489]

Hmm I don't know. Would it be seen as two seperate transactions? Selling whatever is $150k (and paying cap gains) and then buying the gold coins.

[kshymkiw83]

Hypothetical question;)

 

If I sold something that is worth ~150k and asked to be paid in ~150 American eagle coins, do I pay capital gains on the ~150k value or the $7500 face value of the coins?

 

Collectibles i.e American Gold Eagles or American Silver Eagles are taxed at a different rate, under the Capital Gains Tax.

 

Now, when dealing with Coins and Boullion, most people never declare they have them in posession, because you could hypothetically hide them very easy, and play dumb. Although, if you do go through the process of declaring them, I don't know why you would... The Tax Break down is something like this:

 

Short-term capital gains (STCG) One year or less holding time = Ordinary income tax rates up to 35%

 

Long-term capital gains (LTCG) More than one year holding time = 5% for taxpayers in the 10% and 15% tax brackets (zero percent starting in 2008) 15% for taxpayers in the 25%, 28%, 33%, and 35% tax brackets

 

Collectibles One year or less holding time*= STCG tax rates up to 35%

 

Collectibles More than one year holding time = 28%

 

As a person who thinks like you and also has some Silver, Gold, and Paladium Coins/Bars/Boullion my best bet would be, don't draw so much attention to yourself. If you want to avoid having to pay the 28-35% tax rate on these things, make smaller transactions, or break up your transaction into chunks, so it doesn't look so large.

 

Either way, avoid letting Big Brother know that your dealing goods/services for gold. They don't like that.

[kshymkiw83]

What I think is a load of crap is the fact that the government produced the coins, they set the face value and they distribute the coin, Then they get all bent out of shape for someone using the coin at face value they set.

 

If I walked into a store and bought a candy bar, and paid for it with a pre 64 silver dollar, would the store honor the face value of the coin or give me 7 dollars back for the difference in the intrinsic value? I bet I would not get the change back.

 

Well, considering most people don't know the intrinsic value of Silver, I would agree with you. A coin under a non "Shit has hit the fan" system is only worth the face value of the coin.

 

Once the US gov't Hyperinflates the US Dollar, that all changes. Once Hyperinflation begins, Gold/Silver rule all, and at the rate we are printing new US Dollars to make up for our piss poor spending habits, I (who am 26) has a good chance of seeing Hyperinflation actually occur. Then we can be like this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ubJp6rmUYM

[HAOLE]

Well, considering most people don't know the intrinsic value of Silver, I would agree with you. A coin under a non "Shit has hit the fan" system is only worth the face value of the coin.

 

Once the US gov't Hyperinflates the US Dollar, that all changes. Once Hyperinflation begins, Gold/Silver rule all, and at the rate we are printing new US Dollars to make up for our piss poor spending habits, I (who am 26) has a good chance of seeing Hyperinflation actually occur. Then we can be like this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ubJp6rmUYM

 

We may see that in our life time!