Why does everyone hate Obama, Pelosi, and Reid?

[Slowbalt]

I disagree. We need more ICE. A lot more.

 

Care to elaborate on this? Still seems to have nothing to do with hate of Obama. Sounds more like a dualistic hate of "the others".

 

 

Thanks for providing the link to prove he actually said what I posted.

 

It would seem that someone needs to understand what "context" is. Your posted quotes in no way are persuasive. It is obvious that you WANT to dislike Obama and this is my prime reason for starting this thread. If Obama is to be hated, I will join you but I am reserved due to lack of arguments for all the "doomsday" talk that has been prevalent lately.

 

 

 

 

...after being in office a very short time. When something quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

 

I have no clue why you don't like Obama because he received political contributions like EVERY OTHER POLITICIAN!

 

 

 

 

It doesn't matter what "everyone" has. "Everyone" didn't run for president. "Everyone" does NOT have multiple family members, friends, neighbors, and pastures who believe in what his family, friends, neighbors, and pastures did and do? Get it?

 

No I do not "get it". Because I have a crazy uncle you can tell no more about me than if I did not. I didn't vote for his brother or cousin and if they were running I would probably not vote for them.

 

 

 

Link? I have never seen this video.

 

I watched it live.... But since you advocate searching for info I have done it for you.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp

 

If you are looking to prove a point you really need to be more credible and pronouncing you dislike Obama because he is not a US citizen makes me laugh.....and cry.

 

 

 

Don't even begin to assume you have any idea what time I have spent researching. The more time I spend, the more I hate who and what is running this country right now.

 

It sounds like you are doing all your research at Fox because it would certainly seem like you have either put all your "research" in one basket or have spent very, very little time.

 

I

 

 

"That's how politics works". THAT's what I may hate the most - that people let politicians slide because it's the norm.

 

I never said I agree with donations to politicians from corporations at least on an unlimited scale but to say you hate someone because he takes money for a campaign than you would be compelled to hate every politician, save maybe 2.

[Slowbalt]

The fact that you don't see it and how reforms are going to lead to this is the issue in this thread. I am too tired to school you on this. I have three MD's in the family, the youngest of which is coming over to the house soon. If she's in the mood, I'll have her school you. Her husband is a former VP of Hospital Administration and now a practicing PT. Together they would love to have a beer with you.

 

Other than that, I'll let Kirk chime back in. Perhaps I will later if no one has provided you the information.

 

This is the type of information I am looking for. I read something that says its good, I read something that says its bad but the "why's" are never explained. I am looking for the cause and effect of why people say its bad for business. I have a feeling that a lot of these sentiments are drummed up by corporate lobbying.

 

 

Think Clinton era and read up.

This isn't Obama's doing and the administration between hardly seemed to do anything but encourage it. Obama is trying to do something about it. If taxing is the right thing to do, I don't really know but at least he is trying.

 

 

People need to research for themselves. Actually, I think Brian Carter said this on page 1 and about 6-8 month ago too.

 

I completely agree with this and from what I have researched, it has lead to what I would call a hopeful view of Obama. I do not feel he is perfect or "the anointed one" but I certainly don't believe he is ruining the country or killing democracy. I am trying to find out why people are so anti Obama

[nurkvinny]

I did not say he wasn't a US citizen.

 

 

I will film myself yelling, "rabble, rabble, rabble!".

 

Then, you film yourself yelling, "rabble, rabble, rabble!".

 

We'll edit them together - one after the other - in a constant loop and watch them all night.

 

Why? Because that would be as productive as this thread.

 

You want to paint people who are anti-Obama as ignorant, poorly-informed racists (as evidenced by your 'others' comment directed towards me). I, on the other hand, will never understand how someone can swallow what the top few Dems have done over the past few months.

 

We will never meet in the middle, and I can accept that.

 

حتى في المرة القادمة

[Slowbalt]

I did not say he wasn't a US citizen.

 

Because that would be as productive as this thread.

 

You want to paint people who are anti-Obama as ignorant, poorly-informed racists (as evidenced by your 'others' comment directed towards me). I, on the other hand, will never understand how someone can swallow what the top few Dems have done over the past few months.

 

We will never meet in the middle, and I can accept that.

 

حتى في المرة القادمة

 

Just because we do not agree does not make us both wrong. If you believe that he is a US citizen than what was the purpose of your "hide the birth certificate" statement? This thread is as productive as you make it and just like your "research" you have not put very much time or effort into it. Pdggp and El Karacho as well as others have offered insightful and helpful input as to their views and positions. This is considerable more than yourself. I have no problem with what anyone believes, I simply want to know WHY they believe it.

 

Ignorant is having the ability to know but not taking the time. This is evident in your posting of various misleading and taken-out-of-context quotes.

 

Poorly informed.....Certainly, see above.

 

Racist.......the jury is out as I don't know you that well but you seem like a nice guy.

[FormulaMatt]

I am trying to find out why people are so anti Obama

 

People are telling you why, and you are dismissing their opinions as incorrect just because they are not the same as yours.

 

You are just looking to debate the people against Obama. Which is fine, this is the romper room, but call it what it is. Don't try and disguise yourself as some "middle independent" it isn't working, and if you actually are, your posts scream otherwise. You can go round and round and make this 20 pages all you want, they will not change your opinion any more then you will change theirs. Anyone that can read your posts can tell you are not asking for info to change your opinion on Obama. That will NEVER happen.

 

In the interest of perspective, give us some info on you. What has affected you day to day life for the better or worse? What all can you base your opinion on, other then what you find online and in the media? Tim and Kurt have posted first hand experience, that makes their opinion more valuable to me. Can you do the same without linking to something you read?

[TTQ B4U]

I am trying to find out why people are so anti Obama

 

• In short, no one has trust in his plan. IMO, it's not thought through.
  
• He's trying to spend his way into curing our issues. Dumb move, ain't gonna happen.
  
• His ideals are more socialist than anything we've seen and IMO, he can go pound salt if he thinks I should play a role in his Robinhood Games. His belief in distributing wealth is bullshit.

 

I could go on, but I leave some for the others.

[Slowbalt]

People are telling you why, and you are dismissing their opinions as incorrect just because they are not the same as yours.

 

Some people are talking a lot but not saying much. I have not dismissed anything simply because it differs from my opinion but because it differs from the opinions of those who seem to have a better grasp of the issues than myself.

 

 

 

You are just looking to debate the people against Obama. Which is fine, this is the romper room, but call it what it is. Don't try and disguise yourself as some "middle independent" it isn't working, and if you actually are, your posts scream otherwise. You can go round and round and make this 20 pages all you want, they will not change your opinion any more then you will change theirs. Anyone that can read your posts can tell you are not asking for info to change your opinion on Obama. That will NEVER happen.

 

The difference between myself and some of the others in this room is that my opinions are formed around fact hence the reason of the thread. I genuinely want to understand why people hate Obama. From everything I have seen, he is not the "best" president we have ever had but hardly deserves all the haters. Much of the "info" I have been given is flat out wrong and I have done my best to show why or that it is unrelated to Obama. I am still awaiting hearing more about the first hand negative impacts of Healthcare reform from Tim.

 

 

 

In the interest of perspective, give us some info on you. What has affected you day to day life for the better or worse? What all can you base your opinion on, other then what you find online and in the media? Tim and Kurt have posted first hand experience, that makes their opinion more valuable to me. Can you do the same without linking to something you read?

 

 

In the political spectrum it would be very hard to place me. I am anti capitalism to a point, anti socialism to a point. I would consider many of my views to be more liberal leaning. Somewhere around Libertarian/eco-primitivist.

 

I am:

Pro choice "If someone doesn't want a kid, I don't want them to have one"

 

Anti Gun control- The more the merrier....except in the case of rocket launchers, nukes, etc.

 

Anti Death Penalty "If one innocent person dies, it's too many"

 

Anti Big Business "They have the power and lobby the government to maintain it"

 

Anti Big Government "I don't need the government telling me that I can't drink caffeine and alcohol"

 

Anti Industrial Agriculture "You don't even want to know whats in Mcnuggets"

 

Personally I would *almost* prefer to go back to being a farming society.

 

As far as my impacts from changes in the government recently. I have received tax credits and absolutely no negative impact to my stature in society and I feel this says a lot even with how bad the economy has been. I get my information from many, many different news outlets as well as international forums that I read and participate in regularly. I am by no means an expert at many things but I am always learning and looking for new info. Any other questions?

[Slowbalt]

• In short, no one has trust in his plan. IMO, it's not thought through.
  
• He's trying to spend his way into curing our issues. Dumb move, ain't gonna happen.
  
• His ideals are more socialist than anything we've seen and IMO, he can go pound salt if he thinks I should play a role in his Robinhood Games. His belief in distributing wealth is bullshit.

 

I could go on, but I leave some for the others.

 

What "plan" are you referring to and who has a better one?

 

I agree that a lot of the spending is inefficient or at least could be used for more good but man made problems require man made solutions. The majority of the stimulus were tax cuts but many people just refer to the total amount which hasn't even been spent.

 

What do you find "socialistic" about his ideals? Further more why is this a bad thing? America could and maybe even ought to be a bit more "socialist".

Taxation IS redistribution of wealth. I would see no issue with redistributing the millions of dollars that actors,athletes, and artists make and pumping that into our school system.

[TTQ B4U]

Here you go dude...straight from a husband and wife in private practice. It's quick and not all of what they are talking about.

 

His plan will create minimum coverages that I would have to buy into. I won't likely need many of the things that his reform is going to mandate I have, thus a large number of us are going to be paying for shit we'll never use in order to use that "buying power" to keep costs down. Thus limit my choice, Make ME pay more for others. No thanks.

 

His plan is aiiming to "assign me" a home state primary care doctor...one that will control my access to specialists. So in essence, that "doctor" of HIS Choosing will determinie whether I get an MRI or x-rays or the medical procedures I really need. I won't even be able to see a cardiologist unless HE says so. BULLSHIT!

 

The biggest BULLSHIT of it all is that his plan will guide patients to tests and treatments that are deemedmost cost-effective. Let's back up to the days of HMO's years ago when doctors were rewarded for denying care. Remember those days? Perhaps you don't?

 

He's going to requires that all patients pay the same rates for their coverage regardless of their age or medical condition. That's bullshit! Take you for example....young and likely don't make as much as folks older who need more care. Tough shit, you're paying for them too.

 

His plan aims to Lower the Bar for All. No thanks. I say create a plan that rewards people who are healthy and lead a healthy lifestyle. Not under the Obama plan. If he had his way with my auto insurance, I'd be paying the same rates as the guy with 10 tickets and 3 accidents or vise-versa. Bullshit again.

 

I love my HSA, high deductable plan. I pay ZERO premiums, contribute as much as I want per month to MY HSA which is PORTABLE and ALL MINE. No under Mr. Obama. His bill will prevent me from choosing a plan that's in-line with MY Family's needs and instead push a low deductible plan onto me so that I can pay costs for everyone else to have the same. BULLSHIT BIG TIME!

[oh8sti]

Wow you are so predictable it's sickening. I have no reason to try to explain my position, nor does anyone else. You clearly have no interest in opinions or facts that you can't seem to wrap your head around. I feel sorry for you, all that typing and you have only proved one thing to most of us. Your more or less making me dislike Obama more everytime you post what you see as fact because you really want to believe he is the messiah you voted for. He isn't. Time for us to try a new direction. His isn't working. He has had 2 years to show us what he has. He has 2 more, I'm really hoping he does good. After all I am a true American.

[Slowbalt]

@ Tim

 

I really appreciate you taking the time to post that up. This is exactly what I am looking for. As I said before, I do not totally buy into healthcare just the notion that it seems better for most but not all.

[evan9381]

I like how people complain about "our kids will have to pay this debt" etc...there are always going to be taxes...its not like if anything changes, our kids will not have taxes

 

But here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms

 

This shows that since 45, the only republican presidential terms that have ended with a lower debt than what they started the term with, were DDE and nixons first term...every democrat has ended with a LOWER debt to GDP than they started with...hell, GWB started with 56.4% and ended with 83.4%...

 

So in comparrison, dems lowered it anywhere from 3.3% to 24.4% and aside from the 2 i listed that lowered it, republicans raised it from anywhere from .2% to 20.0%

[TTQ B4U]

What "plan" are you referring to and who has a better one?

 

Obama's...pick one. You want to talk Health Care then let's go.

 

I agree that a lot of the spending is inefficient or at least could be used for more good but man made problems require man made solutions. The majority of the stimulus were tax cuts but many people just refer to the total amount which hasn't even been spent.

 

What? Spending our way out of this isn't going to work. Don't try and talk around that. Period.

 

What do you find "socialistic" about his ideals? Further more why is this a bad thing? America could and maybe even ought to be a bit more "socialist".

 

You have no clue do you? His entire health care plan is based on Socialism. YOU might think we need to "distribute wealth" but I say FUCK THAT, as America is a Capitalistic Society. Robin Hood was an asshole and there's no way socialism is better. Raise the fucking bar already.

 

Taxation IS redistribution of wealth. I would see no issue with redistributing the millions of dollars that actors,athletes, and artists make and pumping that into our school system.

 

I'm not for TAXES dude......Watch out though as how the hell do you think Obama is going to pay for all the spending he's putting out there to buy our way out of this mess? Fuck Mayor Coleman too. 1/2% for the city my ass. Fuck him. How about I just donate 100% of MY HARD EARNED money and the load of you socialist support my lifestyle and family. You got it baby, I have a nice lifestyle too...so pony up bitch. It's what you're asking for. Don't go telling me I live too large either as that's bullshit....but maybe that's what you and the other socialists want...to live a little better than you are on the back of us who are doing well and for US to pay for it through OUR Hard Earned Money. No thanks!

[FormulaMatt]

but maybe that's what you and the other socialists want...to live a little better than you are on the back of us who are doing well and for US to pay for it through OUR Hard Earned Money. No thanks!

 

No truer words have been spoken about the USA of today.

[Slowbalt]

Wow you are so predictable it's sickening. I have no reason to try to explain my position, nor does anyone else. You clearly have no interest in opinions or facts that you can't seem to wrap your head around. I feel sorry for you, all that typing and you have only proved one thing to most of us. Your more or less making me dislike Obama more everytime you post what you see as fact because you really want to believe he is the messiah you voted for. He isn't. Time for us to try a new direction. His isn't working. He has had 2 years to show us what he has. He has 2 more, I'm really hoping he does good. After all I am a true American.

 

You have obviously missed the point of this thread. I am *requesting* that people explain their position on Obama and the administration in general. If you do not want to voice this info, you don't have to post. It really is that simple. You are right that I do not have an interest in alleged facts that are proven wrong, I am looking for why people genuinely do not like Obama. many peoples opinions are skewed by what Fox "news" and various conservative outlets have said which is false or misleading at best. Tim has been able to argue while maintaining respect and civility while many others have not. I am not arguing why everyone should like Obama, and I have said multiple times that I am not in love with him and do not agree with everything he does.

[TTQ B4U]

No truer words have been spoken about the USA of today.

 

 

Sad but true. It blows me away that so many fools consider themselves entitled to so much they have yet to earn on their own.

[TTQ B4U]

Tim has been able to argue while maintaining respect and civility while many others have not.

 

 

Sadly I'm not keeping it civil. I'm sorry for that, but I'm a few Vodka Tonic's away from sleep So piss off

[oh8sti]

You have obviously missed the point of this thread. I am *requesting* that people explain their position on Obama and the administration in general. If you do not want to voice this info, you don't have to post. It really is that simple. You are right that I do not have an interest in alleged facts that are proven wrong, I am looking for why people genuinely do not like Obama. many peoples opinions are skewed by what Fox "news" and various conservative outlets have said which is false or misleading at best. Tim has been able to argue while maintaining respect and civility while many others have not. I am not arguing why everyone should like Obama, and I have said multiple times that I am not in love with him and do not agree with everything he does.

 

Lol you only cite things that YOU think are fact. That's what I'm saying dude. I can just as easily say you facts are wrong and are skewed. Easy huh?

[Slowbalt]

Such ruthless hostility....I kinda like the passion

 

Obama's...pick one. You want to talk Health Care then let's go.

 

Who was it that had a better plan?

 

 

What? Spending our way out of this isn't going to work. Don't try and talk around that. Period.

 

This is not an argument....period. Stuff costs money. Tax cuts cost money. Spending money surely CAN get us out of this economic slump. I am not agreeing with every penny that has been spent as I have already stated but for example I think it would be a good idea to invest in solar panel production right here in Ohio. We currently get most of our solar panels from China because they produce them the cheapest......Where is that good ol fashioned Capitalism to save us? Wait, thats what got us into this mess in the first place......

 

 

You have no clue do you? His entire health care plan is based on Socialism. YOU might think we need to "distribute wealth" but I say FUCK THAT, as America is a Capitalistic Society. Robin Hood was an asshole and there's no way socialism is better. Raise the fucking bar already.

 

Again I ask what is so bad about Socialism? Here in the US it is a naughty word but many other countries live it and don't seem to despise it. Unbridled Capitalism is part of the reason we are having such a hard time and why we get shit on at the bottom so that people can make a buck on the top.

 

I'm not for TAXES dude......Watch out though as how the hell do you think Obama is going to pay for all the spending he's putting out there to buy our way out of this mess? Fuck Mayor Coleman too. 1/2% for the city my ass. Fuck him. How about I just donate 100% of MY HARD EARNED money and the load of you socialist support my lifestyle and family. You got it baby, I have a nice lifestyle too...so pony up bitch. It's what you're asking for. Don't go telling me I live too large either as that's bullshit....but maybe that's what you and the other socialists want...to live a little better than you are on the back of us who are doing well and for US to pay for it through OUR Hard Earned Money. No thanks!

 

If you are not for taxes who is to pay for education or the roads that we drive on, or the water we drink? Unless you are planning on going back to being a hunter/ gatherer society taxation is needed. I don't do bad at all in the game of life but I could certainly live on less if I had to. Sure I don't really want to give up more money but if I got more services out of it, than would that be so bad? How does free education or free healthcare sound? Capitalism has its good side as far as encouraging innovation and efficiency in the marketplace but it has it's downsides as well like the class society that we live in and corporate greed.

[Slowbalt]

Lol you only cite things that YOU think are fact. That's what I'm saying dude. I can just as easily say you facts are wrong and are skewed. Easy huh?

 

But do you have proof? Oh yea, I forgot about that whole it isn't a fact until its proven thing.....

 

Unless you are trying to be philosophical.....

[oh8sti]

But do you have proof? Oh yea, I forgot about that whole it isn't a fact until its proven thing.....

 

Unless you are trying to be philosophical.....

 

Well, my proof, vinces proof, and anyone else apposed to you, is just as valid as your proof. The issue is the word proof is a relative term in this current political climate.

[TTQ B4U]

Who was it that had a better plan?

 

No thanks on re-hashing the what could have been crowd. Let's stay on point....Obama's plan sucks.

 

 

Where is that good ol fashioned Capitalism to save us? Wait, thats what got us into this mess in the first place......

 

what got us into this mess was NAFTA signed into law by Bill Clinton which opened the door for all American Companies to leave this Country. Remember back a few posts when I said read up. Enjoy. Thank the Democrats. The housing market and economy began to collapse when Government ruled by Democrats allowed uncontrolled growth of housing and corrupt businesses gave loans to people who could not possibly repay them. But hey, even the lower income folks "deserved" the right to fair housing and to live with those that could afford their homes and make informed decisions.

 

Again I ask what is so bad about Socialism? Here in the US it is a naughty word but many other countries live it and don't seem to despise it. Unbridled Capitalism is part of the reason we are having such a hard time and why we get shit on at the bottom so that people can make a buck on the top.

 

The main problem is that it doesn't raise the bar. Those down below get more off the backs of those up top. That's not good. That's exactly why our socialistic systems in place now don't work. Why would the impoverished get off medicaid and food stamps or get a job when there are programs out there to fund people and allow you to enjoy the impoverished lives they lead and always have.

 

Flip side, why the hell would I want to work harder to make more only to be forced to support the above? Fuck that.

 

If you are not for taxes who is to pay for education or the roads that we drive on, or the water we drink? Unless you are planning on going back to being a hunter/ gatherer society taxation is needed.

 

I'm not against all taxes. Here in Dublin we have great schools and my tax dollars pay for them. However, if I lived in the Cbus district, I'd never vote for a levy as I would just pay to send my kids to a private school. Let those that send their kids to the public schools pay for them. Road wise, again, I do pay taxes and in Dublin, we have mighty nice roads and grass medians....and guess what....we in Dublin pay for them. Let others do the same.

 

In terms of city taxes, I'm against Coleman's taxes as the money is being mismanaged and I won't get into that whole debate. He's another dumb fuck and no surprise which party he's in. Unlike your view I'm Not a Social-democrat or one that generally favors higher levels of taxation to fund public provisions such as universal health care or education, or welfare benefits.

 

I don't do bad at all in the game of life but I could certainly live on less if I had to. Sure I don't really want to give up more money but if I got more services out of it, than would that be so bad? How does free education or free healthcare sound? Capitalism has its good side as far as encouraging innovation and efficiency in the marketplace but it has it's downsides as well like the class society that we live in and corporate greed.

 

I don't see classes in society or corporate profits as wrong. Personally, not everyone on this earth is equal outside human rights. I'm no millionaire but the wife and I do quite well yet I don't expect the Millionaires of this world to lift me up a notch. Nor do I expect those making less than my family to force me to support them. Sorry, but life isn't fair and the US never promised everyone would be equal outside the Constitution. That part is up to each individual. Work hard play hard and pay the performers.

 

Bottom line is social programs are a dis-incentive to work hard and act responsibly. If someone else picks up the tab whenever something goes wrong, why would anyone worry about details like financial responsibility, their own work ethic or productivity in society or any obligation for that matter? If you're in the middle class do not believe for a second that the government will take from the rich on your behalf. You will pay through income taxes, payroll taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, inflation etc. Obama is out to save the poor by redistributing wealth and he's too blind to see that it doesn't work.

 

We could live on less too and in reality we do. We choose to save more than we spend and that's been working out for us. We invest more than our outgoing budget each month. Others on our block choose to buy vacation homes and big cars. Not us. When we retire in our fifties, we don't plan on needing socialist plans to get us by. IMO more people should pay themselves first and aspire to being able to do so. Obama isn't helping anyone under us do that. He's encouraging sponging off the masses. Bullshit. I'll never teach my kids that it's appropriate to live off the hard work of others by taking their money because they are "entitled to it". There is no entitlement except what you make for yourself.

[Das Borgen]

Because Obama hasn't done anything.

 

http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/

that's brother has done nothing so far at all

 

one thing I have noticed though is that he is not working toward getting re-elected, which to be fair may be good for the country....

 

Sure he's doing all the over-reaching normal democrat stuff but so far so good....it could have been much worse, these past 2 years, if he had not undertaken the actions the undertook...especially considering what he was given to work with from Bush......

 

 

 

but what do I know?

[Alex L.]

OP's got good balance to keep on that pedestal so long.

[TTQ B4U]

OP's got good balance to keep on that pedestal so long.

 

not really. he's been pushed off many times, but won't admit he's off. Socialism sucks, but he's had a glass or two of Kool-Aid and can't put it down. Like I said, let him live in the great land up north and interact with the people there. They will tell him it sucks. I have two friends that have recently moved to the UK. Both said it's worse over there.