Guest Spam Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Someone mentioned time, and I think time kind of relates to this. Time I feel doesn't exist, it's something humans on earth created to keep track of and make sense of how one moment leads to another. If we lived on any other planet, time would be different also and our perception on it would change too. Point is, if there is no such thing as time, there is no beginning, there is no end...there has always been a universe and there will always be a universe. Time to go watch Wilfred.... :dumb: We cool and all, but no. :lolguy: Time is real. It absolutely exsists. Its been proven over and over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex L. Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 This thread's giving me a braingasm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillJoy Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Time exists. <PERIOD> It is like Gravity and Solar Winds. Must it be obeyed..... THAT is the question. Bend time and gravity...... you have a quandary. KillJoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Time exists, our measurement of it is unique. Now, you can argue a lot of things about time, but it does exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spam Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 What i find amazing is that we on earth have been able to describe x,y,z coordinates with ease, but it seems space, and the universe are usually referred to in 2 dimensions. Rarely do you hear physicists talk about distances in an x,y,z plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Here's a pretty easy to read work of Anselm's Ontological Argument. Some of you may find it interesting. I'd also be interested to hear your counterpoints. http://www.princeton.edu/~grosen/puc/phi203/ontological.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spam Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Here is a question i never asked myself, how can the defintion of God be his name? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Here is a question i never asked myself, how can the defintion of God be his name? God isn't the definition of God? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Karacho1647545492 Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Okay now I'm home and not at work, I can actually look at and answer your questions instead of just spouting off my belief in things. 1: Does God exist? If yes, why do you think so? If no, why do you think not? 1(a): Can the existence of God be proven or disproven scientifically or logically? 1: Maybe. I think God could exist because there is no certainty or absolute truth that our minds can perceive about the world. I think God could not exist because there is no explanation or certainty about God. 1(a): I don't think so. Our mind is essentially a computer, and I think the amount of computing power necessary to comprehend the existence or nonexistence of God requires far more time and understanding than our minds are capable of. 2: How do you think the universe was created? (i.e., Not just the big bang, but what cause it) 2(a): Is there a sound basis for the theory of intelligent design? 2: I don't pretend to be an expert on it, but I'm excited by the idea of string theory being the way we came about. Its so much more bombastic than creation or the singularity. 2(a): If there is a God, then of course. If indeed there is a God, I'm pretty sure we're a either an experiment or the victims of cosmic torture. More on that later. 3: If God exists as an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent being why does evil exist? I was always raised that if you believe in God, you shall be forgiven. Human nature is to be flawed, which is why God, who is flawless, understands and forgives. If you strip away all the frills of every religion, even atheism, you come to the core belief that some or all people are flawed, but by doing something they can rectify those flaws. In Christianity, it is that we are borne to sin and Jesus died so we didn't have to suffer for our sins, and now our lives should be dedicated to good so that Jesus didn't die in vain. Judaism believes that their work for the Lord is never done, and that their purpose is to continue his labor. Buddhism even seeks enlightenment through attempting to ascend the imperfection of mortality. Regarding my idea of cosmic torture: I don't think there's a God in the sense that most people do, but if there is I think the meaning of our lives is a little something like this. We're basically a computer, but as far as we know we use a fraction of our computing power to grow our knowledge. That's fine and dandy, as we have to use a lot of power to run our insanely complex background processes, but thats OK we are really good at creating our own energy through food. However, in the vast scheme of things, we know that there is so unbelievably much that we don't know, that we strive to learn it. However, comprehending all this data requires a LOOOOOOT of other processes to be honed perfectly, and even then, because we are humans, each individual's processes are going to load at different rates. Then you cut short each individual's processes by a very (relatively) short lifespan, and what you're left with is a billion computers all trying to compute the same thing in a billion different ways, with each computer reaching a slightly different conclusion nowhere near the actual truth. In conclusion, we're completely insignificant and God is fucking with us if it exists. EDIT: And sure, there may have been a few computers that stumbled upon the truth, or a large group may have come to the same conclusion, but it doesn't mean its actually any closer to getting every computer to compute the same way, because every individual is so resistant to being reprogrammed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351mach11647545510 Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 I believe things are too organized for there to not be a god and for a big bang to just bring about everything. it would be like throwing paper in a vat of ink and pulling out a dollar bill. I do believe in evolution to a degree as there is proof, but id rather refer to it as addaptation. I grew up going to church so i'm sure that plays a large part in what I believe, but I have grown to keep an open mind and try to think about things first and use reason, and there has not been any explanation of any other idea that says it's possible. Our world and everything in it, works too harmoniously to just come from nowhere without some kind of design. Now as far "if there is a god, then why do bad things happen", I don't know and neither does anyone else. The coffee mug is a perfect analogy. all we can do is speculate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinHawk1647545499 Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Rebuttal/questions: 1. Do we not run into the same logic loop with the existence of God? Anselm argued, essentially, that God is the greatest of the great. That would mean there is no higher level, no other creator. The problem with that is the question of how God came to exist without a creator. 1a. I have no rebuttal here. I can't say I understand an atheists scientific argument well enough to say anything yet. 2. Do you believe that God created the universe? 2a. With intelligent design, unless you are a deist, how can you explain the natural evolution of the universe? To borrow from Carl Sagan, "we are all the stuff of stars." Wouldn't the designer have created everything at once rather than making stars convert the rest of the matter in the universe? 3a. In that case, is God not omnibenevolent? Why allow evil to exist, regardless of free will? Why does a Tsunami happen? Why do "evil" things happen in nature, devoid of our will? 1. the logic loop ends if there was something that was always there, it can be difficult to grasp with our feeble minds, but it involves not involving time, time is a concept that we humans put everything into context, if infinity = eternity, humans see things as linear, it could be possible for non-linearity which would be infinity. I look at it as God is the eternity, the "thing" that was always there from the infinity. Through that infinity comes everything else. Weather you look at him as the universe or the raw materials that everything else has come from. Everything physical from the world/universe had to come from something, and that something is what I call God. 2. yes see above. 2a. evolution as in changing? the universe progresses and ages, energy can change the universe is in motion as we observe it. I do not believe in inter-species evolution, i do not think there is enough evidence to prove that. Through breeding the human or animal race can change through time, you can view that as evolution of species if you will. 3a. I view the deity that was there from the beginning of time as intelligent. the laws that guide nature are more intelligent then the minds of man can conceive at this time. We are only beginning to grasp the complexity that this system of nature that is created that is in perfect harmony that allows life. With this you can view as God as the clock maker that put everything in motion, I believe he created us for companionship and with that he gave us free will so we would not be mindless slaves. In the old testament of the bible humans were referred to as sheep,you could look as it that God viewed us as pets, in the new testament humans were referred to as children of God. If you look at children they have the possibility to grow and develop like that of their parents. Children do make mistakes, God does not control our actions but allows us to make our own choices whether good or bad, and our bad decisions have consequences that impact everything, God gives us advice to not have a negative impact on the world system, but it is up to us to make our own decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 :dumb: We cool and all, but no. :lolguy: Time is real. It absolutely exsists. Its been proven over and over. http://cdn3.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/099/741/original/OkayGuy.jpg?1297653524 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 I follow the FSM. Have you been touched by his noodely appendage ? Seriously: I would consider myself an "atheist", yes I know it's a bad word in some circles, but hear me out. I harbor no ill will towards those who wish to practice religion, and even encourage it. The world would be an horrendous place without mass religion. Hell, it's all that keeps some people from raping children, and killing people every day. Can't be all bad. peace! I counter your hell argument with this. Pirannahs are Vicious little monsters when feeding but they don't kill each other typically. I'm an atheist on paper an agnostic in practice, By that I mean I don't believe in a god just like i don't believe in the tooth fairy. I would call myself an agnostic but I totally HATE Religion in my government and the atheists are the only ones fighting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 I counter your hell argument with this. Pirannahs are Vicious little monsters when feeding but they don't kill each other typically. I'm an atheist on paper an agnostic in practice, By that I mean I don't believe in a god just like i don't believe in the tooth fairy. I would call myself an agnostic but I totally HATE Religion in my government and the atheists are the only ones fighting it. Yeah, but religion in government is a different issue. Most atheists don't understand history. They also seem to enjoy shoving their version of religion down everyone's throats more then evangelists, or even televangelists! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Yeah, but religion in government is a different issue. Most atheists don't understand history. They also seem to enjoy shoving their version of religion down everyone's throats more then evangelists, or even televangelists! I understand history and that our country is more religious now then it was 100 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spam Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 What is funny is Europe, the birthplace for religion, is less religious now than ever before. When i visited Germany, there were always hundreds and hundreds of people in the cathedrals and kirches, but they were only there to view the wonderful art and carvings and display of gold leave. There were a few in each that were there to pray, but id say 85 percent were there to view. And my friend, a native german, told me that its like this throughout europe. Kind of shocked me to hear that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appn88 Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Here are some topics to get us started: 1: Does God exist? If yes, why do you think so? If no, why do you think not?Yes i believe God exists because i see so many things that show he does in nature in life in everything 1(a): Can the existence of God be proven or disproven scientifically or logically? Yes i believe it can 2: How do you think the universe was created? (i.e., Not just the big bang, but what cause it) 2(a): Is there a sound basis for the theory of intelligent design?absolutely i think so their are a lot of things that show it i do not believe in evolution one bit i see things that disprove it 3: If God exists as an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent being why does evil exist? because evil is not a thing evil is an absolute absence of good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spam Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Please explain why evolution doesnt exist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appn88 Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Please explain why evolution doesnt exist? its what i believe but here goes, irreducible complexity basically states that if you take one part of of a living cell it ceases to function, how would evolution explain a cell evolving all of its parts needed to function at the same time?? then lets look at the giraffe when it goes to take a drink of water all the blood in its body rushes to its head but to protect its brain from hemorrhaging their is a valve that reverses to keep the blood from doing so, how would the giraffe evolve that valve if it didnt have it in the beginning all of the giraffes in the beginning would have died if it didnt have it from the very start, then look at the complexity of dna the different parts it would not function if it were not in the exact order its in how would evolution put the pieces in perfect order through a random mutation? thats what i believe dont take it offensive its just a discussion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansonivan Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 In the country of the blind, the one eyed man is king. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spam Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Have you ever watched any of the Discovery videos, Plant earth, human planet, etc? You watch those and youll change your view. They break down how birds, and fish, and humans evolve and adapt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appn88 Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Have you ever watched any of the Discovery videos, Plant earth, human planet, etc? You watch those and youll change your view. They break down how birds, and fish, and humans evolve and adapt. i actually used to believe in evolution, i loved watching those shows i still watch them in fact i understand all the theories i just don't believe them anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spam Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Well, your theory works, but it has flaws. It assumes, what it is today, is what it was a hundred thousand years ago. The first giraffes were not 30 feet tall, they were short. And for the single cell organisms, they grew until they could split. Its the same as they split in the lab. They are able to make cells in labs evolve today. Its nothing new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appn88 Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Well, your theory works, but it has flaws. It assumes, what it is today, is what it was a hundred thousand years ago. The first giraffes were not 30 feet tall, they were short. And for the single cell organisms, they grew until they could split. Its the same as they split in the lab. They are able to make cells in labs evolve today. Its nothing new. your talking the difference between micro and macro-evolution with the cells the theory of evolution is not perfect as well it states THEORY not absolute truth nothing humans have is absolute the only thing i believe is absolute is the bible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appn88 Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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