hpfiend Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Hey all- looking for a simple bounce flash to use indoors for candid family pictures- I can only do so much with my canon 50mm 1.8 in dark rooms and if I push the iso it can get grainy larger than 4x6 depending on the shot. I am also looking at the 430 ex ii but it is considerably larger, uses more batteries, pricier and the only advantage I can see for myself at this time is I can also bounce it off a side wall without turning the camera sideways? oh yeah I have a canon rebel xs. I have the kit 18-55 and a 50mm 1.8 uv filters for both and that is it so far. I have a small case I use which is why I also like the small 270 flash. Thanks, Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Automotive Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 If thats all your wanting to use it for, Id say go for it. I have 2 580's that I use for OCF, during outdoor shoots. They are dialed down the majority of the time. What Im saying it Im not using all their power. So for indoors trying to over come some ambient light you'll be fine. Its a good starter flash. One recommendation I have is to loose the UV filters. Just try it. If you dont notice better image quality, put them back on. But I bet you will. Do a test shot, on something static. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudiOn19s Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 I have basically the same setup as you and went through the same decision on flash. I wanted to keep my whole setup relativly cheap but I ended up going with the 430 and I'm glad I did. The ability to turn the 430 to not just the sides but fire it behind you allows you to bouce the light off of whatever light source you choose and really makes a difference. Either will really help in low light situations though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 If you want to learn how to use a flash and price is a concern buy a Lumopro manual speed light from Mid West Photo down in Clintonville. There about half the cost of the 430exII and are just as powerful. Downside is they are manual only so you'll have to learn how to use it for the given situation. Or... Get the 430exII its automatic function will work great for about any photographic situation and in the hands of a capable photographer can light the inside of a cathedral. I have two of these, two lumopros, and some vivtars that I use for wedding work and they are more than enough for both on camera and off camera work. I typically don't run them at more than 1/8 to 1/4 power either. I lit this photo with a 430ex on my camera + one vivitar 285hv on a stand to my right. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f185/EWhytsell/Wedding%20ad%20photos/Photo-4.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 I had a nice post typed out at work but never hit submit then shut my browser :dumb: My insight would be to invest in the 430 or greater. I run a couple 580ex's and never looked back to smaller units. The main reason is the 430 will swivel and the extra power, you'll need it when bouncing light and using a diffuser. Trust me, it's worth it. The key to photography is lighting. Get a good one. The 270 will be fine if cash it tight and all you're looking to do is average around the house stuff. However, the hobby is addictive and you'll find yourself at the top of the learning curve quickly. Mod bugs are just like cars. Upgrades await :masturboy: Flash wise, whichever you get, look into one to two of these: Stofen Omnibounce http://www.stofen.com/images/OM_MZ3.gif http://www.stofen.com/index.asp Well worth the $20. Carries around easy and does wonders. You'll leave it on indoors wherever you are shooting so long as the ceilings are no more than 10ft. The other is Gary Fong I have both the Whale Tail Reporter and the Lightsphere II. Pricey gear but the flat out work and are by far the best I've used in terms of output. Here's an image of Gary with them on his camera's: http://www.garyfong.com/imagesdaily/garystudioreporter.jpg http://garyfonginc.com/images/product/sizecomparison.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpfiend Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 If you want to learn how to use a flash and price is a concern buy a Lumopro manual speed light from Mid West Photo down in Clintonville. There about half the cost of the 430exII and are just as powerful. Downside is they are manual only so you'll have to learn how to use it for the given situation. Or... Get the 430exII its automatic function will work great for about any photographic situation and in the hands of a capable photographer can light the inside of a cathedral. I have two of these, two lumopros, and some vivtars that I use for wedding work and they are more than enough for both on camera and off camera work. I typically don't run them at more than 1/8 to 1/4 power either. I lit this photo with a 430ex on my camera + one vivitar 285hv on a stand to my right. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f185/EWhytsell/Wedding%20ad%20photos/Photo-4.jpg Thanks for the advice! I never would have used a flash at all in that shot- I guess I have a lot to learn... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Thanks for the advice! I never would have used a flash at all in that shot- I guess I have a lot to learn... Outdoors is where you'll use the flash most; or should. Especially when subjects are backlit like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpfiend Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 I had a nice post typed out at work but never hit submit then shut my browser :dumb: My insight would be to invest in the 430 or greater. I run a couple 580ex's and never looked back to smaller units. The main reason is the 430 will swivel and the extra power, you'll need it when bouncing light and using a diffuser. Trust me, it's worth it. The key to photography is lighting. Get a good one. The 270 will be fine if cash it tight and all you're looking to do is average around the house stuff. However, the hobby is addictive and you'll find yourself at the top of the learning curve quickly. Mod bugs are just like cars. Upgrades await :masturboy: Flash wise, whichever you get, look into one to two of these: Stofen Omnibounce http://www.stofen.com/images/OM_MZ3.gif http://www.stofen.com/index.asp Well worth the $20. Carries around easy and does wonders. You'll leave it on indoors wherever you are shooting so long as the ceilings are no more than 10ft. The other is Gary Fong I have both the Whale Tail Reporter and the Lightsphere II. Pricey gear but the flat out work and are by far the best I've used in terms of output. Here's an image of Gary with them on his camera's: http://www.garyfong.com/imagesdaily/garystudioreporter.jpg http://garyfonginc.com/images/product/sizecomparison.jpg Thanks! I had never heard of Gary Fongs- I will look into them- I had already found the sto fen for the 270 on amazon... I like photography a lot but I just don't have the with my time becoming less and less available the more complex I make it the less I will do it-... it seems as if the 430 is the right choice- but knowing myself if it is as bulky as it looks I probably will never use it as I will have to carry a separate bag for it- heck even if I had more lenses I probably wouldn't use them unless my kids get into sporting events and I need a zoom as I use the 50mm for everything- I love how compact it is and I am pretty quick to move back and forth physically for framing- I may get an L series one down the road (if they make it) or at least the 1.4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpfiend Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 I have basically the same setup as you and went through the same decision on flash. I wanted to keep my whole setup relativly cheap but I ended up going with the 430 and I'm glad I did. The ability to turn the 430 to not just the sides but fire it behind you allows you to bouce the light off of whatever light source you choose and really makes a difference. Either will really help in low light situations though. again it looks as if the 430 is the winner- what do you guys use as a carry setup and can you carry it with the flash installed and ready? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 again it looks as if the 430 is the winner- what do you guys use as a carry setup and can you carry it with the flash installed and ready? I rarely carry my gear with flash mounted unless I'm ready to shoot. Main reason is risk vs cost. If one of my kids or a knucklehead at the zoo back into me or what not, there goes a $500 flash and a possibly a couple grand in camera body. It's not safe to mount it and leave it in a bag either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpfiend Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 If thats all your wanting to use it for, Id say go for it. I have 2 580's that I use for OCF, during outdoor shoots. They are dialed down the majority of the time. What Im saying it Im not using all their power. So for indoors trying to over come some ambient light you'll be fine. Its a good starter flash. One recommendation I have is to loose the UV filters. Just try it. If you dont notice better image quality, put them back on. But I bet you will. Do a test shot, on something static. Thanks on the UV filter tip- I will give it a try! I originally bought them so that I wouldn't scratch the lenses as again I usually put the covers on quickly after shooting but sometimes between shots I might brush against something- not a concrete wall or anything but in case I did I would rather ruin the filter than the lens- I will def try it as my images do seem soft in general- good for portraits but sometimes I wish I had a little more punch. maybe the filters are the prob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpfiend Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 I rarely carry my gear with flash mounted unless I'm ready to shoot. Main reason is risk vs cost. If one of my kids or a knucklehead at the zoo back into me or what not, there goes a $500 flash and a possibly a couple grand in camera body. It's not safe to mount it and leave it in a bag either. I think that is why I am leaning towards the 270 its cheaper and more compact if I don't leave it mounted it won't happen. I am more of a point and shoot family photo kind of guy that likes the flexibility and image quality of the SLR. I am no pro and beyond the basics of depth of field and stopping motion with shutter speed I could learn a lot- but just like my corvette- it's dirty as hell- I drive it daily in anything and love every minute of it- sure it would look better clean but I just don't have the time or discipline to polish it every weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 I originally bought them so that I wouldn't scratch the lenses as again I usually put the covers on quickly after shooting but sometimes between shots I might brush against something- not a concrete wall or anything but in case I did I would rather ruin the filter than the lens Use a lens hood 100% of the time. Unless your lens is an external zoom or too long and interferes with the stock flash. Then just simply remove the hood. Otherwise, leave it on whenever using your camera. I will def try it as my images do seem soft in general- good for portraits but sometimes I wish I had a little more punch. maybe the filters are the prob.The "punch" you're used to seeing from a P&S vs SLR is from the filters over the sensor of the SLR. Also, check your settings for the camera. I don't shoot in jpeg mode, but most cameras have adjustments and presets for those that do. If you're not into processing the images after then go that route. P&S cameras tend to over-process images. Unknowingly people tend to really like the deep saturated and punchy images from digital cameras, but truth is the opposite is better. Softer images with more dynamic range that is more true to life allows for on Computer processing to do the job. Much better job too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpfiend Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Outdoors is where you'll use the flash most; or should. Especially when subjects are backlit like that. hmm now that makes sense I would have just passed on the shot once I saw they were silhoutted. For something like this I see needing the bigger flash... thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpfiend Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Use a lens hood 100% of the time. Unless your lens is an external zoom or too long and interferes with the stock flash. Then just simply remove the hood. Otherwise, leave it on whenever using your camera. That is good advice- I bought high quality uv filters but if I don't pass this test I will switch them out... you are taking about the hard ones not the rubber foldable ones correct... The "punch" you're used to seeing from a P&S vs SLR is from the filters over the sensor of the SLR. Also, check your settings for the camera. I don't shoot in jpeg mode, but most cameras have adjustments and presets for those that do. If you're not into processing the images after then go that route. P&S cameras tend to over-process images. Unknowingly people tend to really like the deep saturated and punchy images from digital cameras, but truth is the opposite is better. Softer images with more dynamic range that is more true to life allows for on Computer processing to do the job. Much better job too. I shoot in jpeg and RAW and do always turn up the saturation and sharpness when I have time to mess with the RAW files.... you know what you are talking about bro. Do I need to do the photobucket routine or can you hotlink in this part of the forum if I wanted to share some shots sometime? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpfiend Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 I rarely carry my gear with flash mounted unless I'm ready to shoot. Main reason is risk vs cost. If one of my kids or a knucklehead at the zoo back into me or what not, there goes a $500 flash and a possibly a couple grand in camera body. It's not safe to mount it and leave it in a bag either. is this because of a risk of damaging the shoe mount? Do you also unmount your lenses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpfiend Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) I think I am going to try and rent both from lensrentals.com if the rental isn't that bad- I rented an L 70-200 a while back and it worked out pretty well- is that where you guys rent from? Can you buy these used or do they get weak over time? Do they have counters? Edited August 31, 2011 by hpfiend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs.cos Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 I have the collapsable Gary Fong and LOVE it. I have used the non collapsable as well. I have a stofen as well. Both have thier places. When i had the 430EXii, i always wished for more power, just an FYI, but thats just me. I just couldnt afford teh 580EXii. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 I think I am going to try and rent both from lens.com if the rental isn't that bad- I rented an L 70-200 a while back and it worked out pretty well- is that where you guys rent from? Can you buy these used or do they get weak over time? Do they have counters? I have not rented lenses although there is certainly a market for it. I just had my 100-400 serviced. All lenses will loosen over time but the 100-400 has bearings in it that wear due in art to it's push/pull design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs.cos Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Just an FYI, we have local rentals here. MPEX.com (on High Street in clintonville) Columbus Camera Group (though as usual they are oddballs and dont rent Friday to monday as one day, only Saturday to monday) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpfiend Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Just an FYI, we have local rentals here. MPEX.com (on High Street in clintonville) Columbus Camera Group (though as usual they are oddballs and dont rent Friday to monday as one day, only Saturday to monday) called MPEX they don't rent anything but the 580-thanks! going to google columbus camera group- lensrentals.com (the place I used before) wants 80.00 to rent both for 4 days including their 2 day shipping policy... which is a chunk of the total price for sure... I may just buy a 270 exii used and then if I don't like it resell it for most of what I paid for it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 I don't know of any way to store a flash on a camera in a bag. The 270 might provide that ability since its pretty low profile, but I still wouldn't due to the foot being made weak on flashes and the body is still plastic so something will break eventually. I use UV filters in non paid situations just to keep from having to clean the more expensive and coated optics of my lenses all the time. I prefer to wipe the UV filter with my t-shirt if I have to remove a smudge. They do however take a small amount of contrast away from the images, but I use cheap UV filters. they also can cause unwanted and sometimes wanted lens flare effects. As for diffusers I have a stofen that I like to use, but lately have just been using an index card and rubber band (no kidding). Not only do I look like a boss, I can also roll it around under the rubber band to change the direction of the light, or even use it as a flag to control how much light hits a closer target. Found it especially useful at my latest wedding. My ultimate light modifier is my assistant holding a 4ft monopod adapted to carry a 43" umbrella and 2 speedlights. I can put her where I need her and I could make every photo at the wedding look like it was staged and shot in a studio. I also usually have a couple speedlights in the corners of reception venues firing through umbrellas or bare flash (for the hollywood lighting effect.) Makes for some cool dance photos. Also a really good resource for learning about flash and what you can do with very little money is http://www.strobist.com He has some great stuff in the archives and you can pick up books and DVD's are Mid West Photo as well as a lot of "strobist" items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpfiend Posted October 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Ok- I went with the 270exii and I love the size. It makes my low lit shots look better- especially with the stofen diffuser but I don't know if it expanded my iso range? Is that possible? I don't think I know how to use it yet... I want to be able to shoot in a dim room at iso 400 max not 800 or 1600. I using f 1.8 but ideally would like 2.0 or 2.2 as the lens is ideal one or two stops from max. If I need to return it for the 430 I will but I really hope there is something else I can do as I know I will use this one with its size- it seems like I can get a shot now at the low end of 1600 or almost 800 where I was stuck deep in 1600 before - shots were coming off overexposed until I turned down the flash compensation but I wonder if there is another way to adjust the light meter and shoot without flash compensation at smaller aperatures and or iso... oh yeah I also got a tulip lens hood and you were right the uv filter was hurting me slightly and it was a moderately expensive one... thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1fynz Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 As far as what you can do to work with your flash, read this if you haven't. http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/index.html It's long, but it changed the whole way I use my flash. I actually bought a flash and was so frustrated with the pictures I was getting that I didn't put it back on the camera for six months until I read this. Now the flash rarely comes off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 It's long, but it changed the whole way I use my flash. I actually bought a flash and was so frustrated with the pictures I was getting that I didn't put it back on the camera for six months until I read this. Now the flash rarely comes off. Hehe, in the industry we actually have a joke about "natural light shooter" really meaning, "I don't understand flash." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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