Issue 2

[koolrayz]

page 3 is tl;dr material.

 

Bottom line, SB5 has the right idea in mind but Kasich saw his election as a mandate to bring sweeping hyper-conservative legislation in. The people have spoken and what they said was that while they agree with his principles of conservatism, trying to neuter one group of people is unacceptable. IMO this may be the beginning of Americans stepping up for some shared sacrifice. I don't think the public sector employee is saying that they're entitled to everything they currently have and taking any of it away is bad. I think people are simply saying that SB5 unfairly targets one group of people, and that while some of its changes are necessary (merit-based raises for one), they cannot stomach the whole of SB5 just to make a couple of those changes. I think Kasich needs to start small with merit-based pay and, although it unfortunately increases the government's role, a whole hell of a lot more auditing in how dollars are spent (that UA fire dept expenditure story is a great example of wasted dollars). the solution to that, however, is not to take away their right to argue their case.

 

Exactly!

the solution to that, however, is not to take away their right to argue their case.

Taking away there rights is the real issue and the reason the whole country watched this election.

I really dont think many of you understand the implications of this law. And for the people that think we should boot people out of there jobs because there are many other qualified people available that will work for less I leave you with this thought. How about if we take your job and post it up to the lowest bidder. Then you can be offered the priveledge to bid on someone elses job, that way we can all mix and match our way into poverty while increasing executive bonuses for coming up with this great plan.

[Dr. Pomade]

page 3 is tl;dr material.

 

Bottom line, SB5 has the right idea in mind but Kasich saw his election as a mandate to bring sweeping hyper-conservative legislation in. The people have spoken and what they said was that while they agree with his principles of conservatism, trying to neuter one group of people is unacceptable. IMO this may be the beginning of Americans stepping up for some shared sacrifice. I don't think the public sector employee is saying that they're entitled to everything they currently have and taking any of it away is bad. I think people are simply saying that SB5 unfairly targets one group of people, and that while some of its changes are necessary (merit-based raises for one), they cannot stomach the whole of SB5 just to make a couple of those changes. I think Kasich needs to start small with merit-based pay and, although it unfortunately increases the government's role, a whole hell of a lot more auditing in how dollars are spent (that UA fire dept expenditure story is a great example of wasted dollars). the solution to that, however, is not to take away their right to argue their case.

 

type tl;dr

 

proceed to then type dissertation

 

receive ironing citation

[TTQ B4U]

Where do you guys work that your benefits suck so bad in the private bus. world? I work in both public and private sectors. I know there are companies out there that provide way better benefits than my public job. And SB 5 was never about the 10/15%.

 

My benefits don't suck. Their great. I chose the HSA plan, have Zero Premium each month, Max out of pocket is $4k per year for the family and my employer puts in the first $2,000 January 1. I've had this type of plan for nearly 10 years and my HSA has enough in there to buy a very nice Luxery car, thus I'm not at all worried about getting sick or injured.

 

Even our traditional benefits are excellent. However, they are moving to 20% of the premium for employees on this plan. For my familiy that would mean $275mo. No thanks. I'll stick with my HSA and put my money in my pocket for my own health plan vs flushing it away on managing the risk each year.

 

SB5 did cap health insurance costs at that 15 percent, which IMO is generous. It eliminates the bullshit practice pension pick-up's that agencies were touting as their way of saving money. Sure it saved them money vs giving someone an increase in salary, but then it sticks the taxpayers with paying more of the employees health care and pension plans. Bullshit, they should pay into that and if they want a raise, earn it.

 

Sure you're going to hear different percentages from different employees. The amount they pay for health benefits varies from City, to county to township levels and again for schools. End longevity bonuses and step-plan raises. This isn't the 1950's and unions are most certainly over rated today.

[RyM3rC]

Where do you guys work that your benefits suck so bad in the private bus. world? I work in both public and private sectors. I know there are companies out there that provide way better benefits than my public job. And SB 5 was never about the 10/15%.

 

PM me if you want specifics, but having worked at 3 small businesses in the last year, all were $80-$120 every two weeks for crappy health coverage NOT including dental or vision, and the only one that had any kind of 401k is nearly bankrupt. In fact I've only ever worked two places that had decent benefits, and one was a union job that paid about minimum wage and the other was owned by a large corporation but paid slightly above minimum wage.

[SpaceGhost]

My benefits don't suck. Their great. I chose the HSA plan, have Zero Premium each month, Max out of pocket is $4k per year for the family and my employer puts in the first $2,000 January 1. I've had this type of plan for nearly 10 years and my HSA has enough in there to buy a very nice Luxery car, thus I'm not at all worried about getting sick or injured.

 

 

I work for the state and have the same plan!

 

For me it is 6K out of pocket Maximum

 

at $4K I have to have another $20,000 in billed medical care before they pick up 100% of the bill, between 4k and 6K I have a copay of 10%

 

CSCC gives me $2000 for my HSA in 24 payments throughout the year

 

I pay a $230 a month premium for the INS

 

I also deposit $250 a month in the HSA account!

 

Man my benifits are out of control! I only pay $480 a month for health care! Shit is cheap!

[El Karacho1647545492]

type tl;dr

 

proceed to then type dissertation

 

receive ironing citation

 

I was not condemning teal deer, i was simply stating the obvious.

 

page 4 is for single line responses.

 

:gabe: problem?

[Dr. Pomade]

I was not condemning teal deer, i was simply stating the obvious.

 

page 4 is for single line responses.

 

:gabe: problem?

 

:fuckyeah:

[El Karacho1647545492]

:fuckyeah:

 

:megusta:

[TTQ B4U]

I work for the state and have the same plan!

 

For me it is 6K out of pocket Maximum

 

at $4K I have to have another $20,000 in billed medical care before they pick up 100% of the bill, between 4k and 6K I have a copay of 10%

 

CSCC gives me $2000 for my HSA in 24 payments throughout the year

 

I pay a $230 a month premium for the INS

 

I also deposit $250 a month in the HSA account!

 

Man my benifits are out of control! I only pay $480 a month for health care! Shit is cheap!

 

That makes me even more loving of the benny's I get. Seriously. After 4k I don't pay anything and zero premium allows me to put $200-$500mo on in my HSA. To me it's a good investment account as one day I will be old and spending 2x that per month on meds I'm sure. :fuuuu:

[SpaceGhost]

How can you put 500 a month in and get 2k from your employer? Maximum deposit in the account is 6250 a year (including employer contributions) I thought? Is your Pre-tax? Mine is Pre-tax.

[TTQ B4U]

How can you put 500 a month in and get 2k from your employer? Maximum deposit in the account is 6250 a year (including employer contributions) I thought?

 

Just saying that it allows me that flexibility.

 

I don't fund the account from my employer pre-tax as we have so much money in ours already. We deposit the money into it quarterly and claim it on our taxes in the spring. We vary the amounts we put in monthly depending on our needs.

[SpaceGhost]

Mine lowers my taxable income. So it's a direct deposit to my HSA twice a month.

[Sturg1647545502]

How did he say it affected him?

 

Basically, it took public service workers and told them that they would only be allowed to colectively bargin for wages. That's fine, but it told them to shove it in terms of continuing to expect not to contribute towards their own health insurance and pensions. (which honestly needs changed thus why I supported it) It also told them to shove it in terms of going on strike if they didn't get their way on Health Insurance and Pensions. (again, I support that) The private sector is moving towards employees paying 25% of their healthcare premiums. Ohio Issue 2 simply sets the minimum employee health insurance contribution at 15 percent. Sweet deal still don't ya think? Yet so many seem to have a sense of entitlement that it wasn't good enough for them. Pound that shit. The 10 percent minimum contribution to individual retirement plans helps the guaranteed pension affordable for Ohio taxpayers. The taxpayers...you know the ones public service jobs support. Again, the bill still allowed for Unions to negotiate upon the behalf of employees for working conditions and wages.

 

IMO if they go on strike because they want the rest of us to pay their healthcare and retirement, then replace their asses. Times are different and they need to change too. The days of putting in 20 years and collecting a pension then going out and double dipping need to end. IMO if a cop puts in 20yrs and retires, that's fine, but they shouldn't get their money until age 60-67 like the rest of us. Until then, retire and go get another job if they wish. Way too much of our tax dollars are spent taking care of public servants that are retired. Fuck that.

 

What really ticks me off is just like back when Coleman was lobbying for the .5% income tax increase and used FUD about the impact of not doing so would have on public safety, is the same bullshit being thrown around by firefighters and the same group on this bill. " it will jeopardize the safety of residents during emergencies. " Bullshit......the city and the officials won't let that happen and neither will the people. If Coleman wanted to threaten to cut cops, then we should have pushed him to do that. I guarantee if he did, his dumb ass wouldn't have won yesterday. THAT's why he supported the increase. To get people to "buy into" the bullshit, pay the broken system more money out of fear and to get his ass elected again. SELF SERVING.

 

Columbus is filled with stupid voters. So then next time anyone bitches about these issues, thank those that voted for continuing the same old broken system, who fell for the bullshit Coleman is selling, who bought into the FUD that get's rumored to occur and helped the system continue to serve themselves and help no one. I hope their all happy coughing up more of their hard earned income for nothing and not impacting any meaningful change.

 

Off my soap box.

 

There is soo much inaccuracy in this statement it fills my mind with fuck. I know people dont like to be told they're wrong, but what this statement entails is less than right... "sweet deals" LOLZ. I love how people say that and want to compare jobs.

NVM.

[TTQ B4U]

Mine lowers my taxable income. So it's a direct deposit to my HSA twice a month.

 

six and one half really, you get your savings each month, we get ours in a lump in the spring time.

[TTQ B4U]

There is soo much inaccuracy in this statement it fills my mind with fuck. I know people dont like to be told they're wrong, but what this statement entails is less than right... "sweet deals" LOLZ. I love how people say that and want to compare jobs.

NVM.

 

why not share your thoughts on why SB5 was a bad thing. tell us how it would have been the end of the world.

[TA In Progress]

I say fuck unions, they aren't needed and I side with companies who are out to break them. When I was at Panasonic, it was cheaper for them to shut down the entire Building #1 in NJ and move into a brand new one in Elgin, IL than it was to keep the 3,000+ union workers in NJ in their current situation. That's fucked up when it's cheaper to shut down and move than to keep what is in place.

 

So they did. All 3,000 people were offered their jobs but they had to move on their own dime to keep it. Guess how many of those "hard working" people did? Less than 100. Good!

 

In this situation, I'd have to blame Panasonic. If the union contract wasn't acceptable and cost Panasonic too much (ie prevented a few from getting even richer), then Panasonic shouldn't have accepted it in the first place. I can probably safely assume the factory in NJ wasn't new and state of the art, and therefore cost more to operate.

 

I feel that unions still have a place in this country, albeit a smaller one than fifty years ago. For example, I can probably assume that when you board an airplane, you'd feel better knowing that the maintenance crew that just replaced the engine 2 hours ago wasn't pressured into cutting corners, using incorrect tools, procedures, etc. just so the plane makes it to the gate on time? I'd rather wait an extra half hour than seen people killed.

[TTQ B4U]

In this situation, I'd have to blame Panasonic. If the union contract wasn't acceptable and cost Panasonic too much (ie prevented a few from getting even richer), then Panasonic shouldn't have accepted it in the first place. I can probably safely assume the factory in NJ wasn't new and state of the art, and therefore cost more to operate.

 

I don't blame Panasonic. I think they like many companies, especially larger ones have had to cut costs and trim fat in many different ways. A good book to read if you care to know the details is The Panasonic Way. You'll see why the unions were killing them. I used to walk out of their seeing janitors getting out of Caddy's.

 

Longevity bonuses and pensions were killing them too. All the same shit just getting worse in a bad economy. I'm sorry, but if a guy is going to aspire to sweep floors for a living, I don't care if he's put in 20yrs at one company, his job and salary need to be in line with the work being done. Period.

 

 

I feel that unions still have a place in this country, albeit a smaller one than fifty years ago. For example, I can probably assume that when you board an airplane, you'd feel better knowing that the maintenance crew that just replaced the engine 2 hours ago wasn't pressured into cutting corners, using incorrect tools, procedures, etc. just so the plane makes it to the gate on time? I'd rather wait an extra half hour than seen people killed.

 

You can stop painting the picture that Unions main job is to look out for the publics safety. We all know that's bullshit. They aren't there primarily to insure the labor force has the "proper tools" or that the public is safe. Unions are around to insure workers have better rights, wages and benefits. SB5 wasn't about cutting the equipment the public service depts would get to have to do their job. Again, put a system in place the holds the superiors accountable and they won't have that "fear" to even hold out as a carrot. Make them be accountable for their own performance not just sit around collecting longevity bonuses and using their tenure as a shield.

[KennyFKINPowerz]

All I can say is that I am SOOOOO glad that it failed. I agree with parts of it but as a whole it sucked ass. My wife has done nothing but take cuts from work for the last year in an attempt to help balance the state budget. My whole issue is how many cuts do they expect the same group of people to take before it is enough? It has personally affected my household. The lower priced benefits make up for the low pay and is supposed to be part of her overall compensation package. She is also one of the top performers in her department and has only recieved 3 raises in 7 years. I think if this bill were broken up then some of the issues have a really good chance of passing.

[TTQ B4U]

All I can say is that I am SOOOOO glad that it failed. I agree with parts of it but as a whole it sucked ass. My wife has done nothing but take cuts from work for the last year in an attempt to help balance the state budget. My whole issue is how many cuts do they expect the same group of people to take before it is enough? It has personally affected my household.

 

Nothing personal, but how is that different than most any employee at any other employer in today's market? you're not alone in terms of households being impacted by the economy today. Please, share the examples of her cutbacks.

 

You are aware that lots of companies have reduced salaries right?

How many companies stopped matching 401k's

How many companies cut hours, laid off thousands?

Again, what makes public sector employees exempt from the need to balance budgets and tighten up the belt?

 

The lower priced benefits make up for the low pay and is supposed to be part of her overall compensation package. She is also one of the top performers in her department and has only recieved 3 raises in 7 years. I think if this bill were broken up then some of the issues have a really good chance of passing.

The costs of benefits at many companies are part of the employees entire package. Even mine. Sure, I have great benny's and a company car, bonus, etc....but my base salary and even top tier level of income isn't what it could be working elsewhere. However, you take the job based on the entire package and with the good comes the bad.

 

She's had 3 raises in 7 years. That's not bad actually. I know several companies that haven't offered raises at all for years. Besides, how can she expect a raise in times like this? I mean the state, counties, etc. are still functioning businesses and if their revenue and profits are strapped then how can their employees expect a raise? From where? Us the taxpayers? What are we getting in return? Why should the tax payers shell out more for her and others like her? Where's that money supposed to come from? The tax base is down thus essentially gov't are losing revenue.

 

Again, I'm sure she's a great worker and what not, but it's a business and if they aren't bringing in the money then she can't expect to receive a raise. Hell, I was the #1 rep for years and then ran the most successful region at a local company for many years but then business changed and while my division, my region and my team were kicking ass they still couldn't afford to pay us all like we were being paid at one time, so unfortunately I had to leave and go elsewhere. Why? Because my market value was seen as high and another company (Panasonic) could and was willing to afford me. Some of my friends stay and weathered the storm.

[TA In Progress]

I don't blame Panasonic. I think they like many companies, especially larger ones have had to cut costs and trim fat in many different ways. A good book to read if you care to know the details is The Panasonic Way. You'll see why the unions were killing them. I used to walk out of their seeing janitors getting out of Caddy's.

 

Longevity bonuses and pensions were killing them too. All the same shit just getting worse in a bad economy. I'm sorry, but if a guy is going to aspire to sweep floors for a living, I don't care if he's put in 20yrs at one company, his job and salary need to be in line with the work being done. Period.

 

 

 

 

You can stop painting the picture that Unions main job is to look out for the publics safety. We all know that's bullshit. They aren't there primarily to insure the labor force has the "proper tools" or that the public is safe. Unions are around to insure workers have better rights, wages and benefits. SB5 wasn't about cutting the equipment the public service depts would get to have to do their job. Again, put a system in place the holds the superiors accountable and they won't have that "fear" to even hold out as a carrot. Make them be accountable for their own performance not just sit around collecting longevity bonuses and using their tenure as a shield.

 

I was more speaking of private sector unions, not so much the state employees unions. I'll be the first to agree that changes need to be made, starting at the top. You come across as having the mindset that all state employees and anyone associated with a union is a shitbag, and I feel that you are way off with that. I certainly don't think you're a dirtbag because I have ran across my share of greasy salesmen. Not all state employees double dip, fuck off all day, pad overtime, etc. I don't feel that everyone should be punished because of the small group the news tells you about. If it's so lucrative to be a state employee, then why aren't you? Both my parents were and my wife is a state employee. None of them ever left/leaves work on time and routinely worked 45-50 hrs. a week with no comp/overtime. My parents didn't get rich, and last time I checked, my wife and I aren't either. None of them worked for the state for the pay, it was for the benefits. There has to be something to attract good employees and that's what did it for them.

 

I'm not going to debate the safety aspect that I brought up with you. I, not you, know what I have seen and dealt with. FWIW, I am not in a union.

[KennyFKINPowerz]

Nothing personal, but how is that different than most any employee at any other employer in today's market? you're not alone in terms of households being impacted by the economy today. Please, share the examples of her cutbacks.

 

You are aware that lots of companies have reduced salaries right?

How many companies stopped matching 401k's

How many companies cut hours, laid off thousands?

Again, what makes public sector employees exempt from the need to balance budgets and tighten up the belt?

 

The costs of benefits at many companies are part of the employees entire package. Even mine. Sure, I have great benny's and a company car, bonus, etc....but my base salary and even top tier level of income isn't what it could be working elsewhere. However, you take the job based on the entire package and with the good comes the bad.

 

She's had 3 raises in 7 years. That's not bad actually. I know several companies that haven't offered raises at all for years. Besides, how can she expect a raise in times like this? I mean the state, counties, etc. are still functioning businesses and if their revenue and profits are strapped then how can their employees expect a raise? From where? Us the taxpayers? What are we getting in return? Why should the tax payers shell out more for her and others like her? Where's that money supposed to come from? The tax base is down thus essentially gov't are losing revenue.

 

Again, I'm sure she's a great worker and what not, but it's a business and if they aren't bringing in the money then she can't expect to receive a raise. Hell, I was the #1 rep for years and then ran the most successful region at a local company for many years but then business changed and while my division, my region and my team were kicking ass they still couldn't afford to pay us all like we were being paid at one time, so unfortunately I had to leave and go elsewhere. Why? Because my market value was seen as high and another company (Panasonic) could and was willing to afford me. Some of my friends stay and weathered the storm.

 

Its not any different but how many times can you expect the same group of people to take cuts? Is it going to be enough when everyone has to pay 100% for their benifits and makes minumum wage because our local goverment fucked this all up? Don't get me wrong. I am all for sacrifice and I think it should be spread evenly across the board. You can not say ok guys we are not giving raises this year so we can help balance the budget. Com back 2 months later and say ok guys, you have to take 10 unpaid days off a year to help balance the budget. And again and again. It has been one thing after the other for more than the last year. I have always worked in the private sector and I have taken some hits on my end but nothing like what my wife has had to go through. NOW I could understand if she made 100k a year and had the same benefits and what not. The issue is that the mojority of the people who are affected by all of this don't make that kind of money and are living paycheck to paycheck. When you take and take and take then the well dries up and what do you have then? I dont think that State workers are exempt at all. I think that they have taken enough from them already and now its time to look at other places to cut costs. Our government mismanaged the state budget NOT the state employees. How fair is it for the state employees to carry this entire burdeon? 3 raises in 7 years is good? Not by my standards. I have had some years without raises but not like that. Again, this is another thing that is part of their overall compensation package that they have already given up as well.

[TTQ B4U]

I was more speaking of private sector unions, not so much the state employees unions. I'll be the first to agree that changes need to be made, starting at the top. You come across as having the mindset that all state employees and anyone associated with a union is a shitbag, and I feel that you are way off with that.

 

yeah, I'm coming off a bit harsh and strong but not intending to be harsh on all state and union workers. Again not intended that way but it's likely due to it being a heated topic as of late. It also resonates strongly because it's bringing back memories of the shit I have seen in the past upon every trip to NJ.

 

Not all state employees double dip, fuck off all day, pad overtime, etc. I don't feel that everyone should be punished because of the small group the news tells you about.

I don't see anyone being punished. How were they being punished? Loop holes were being closed and accountability being increased. Neither of which are punishments. I'm sorry but state employees get 2 weeks sick leave, why should local gov'ts get strapped with paying for 3 weeks? That's ridiculous.

 

 

If it's so lucrative to be a state employee, then why aren't you?

I never said it was lucrative. I work in the private sector because it pays way more and I like the culture my work breeds.

 

Both my parents were and my wife is a state employee. None of them ever left/leaves work on time and routinely worked 45-50 hrs. a week with no comp/overtime. My parents didn't get rich, and last time I checked, my wife and I aren't either. None of them worked for the state for the pay, it was for the benefits. There has to be something to attract good employees and that's what did it for them.

I hear ya...and again with the benefits. However, employment opportunities are about more than just benefits. Don't follow the money or benefits as it rarely brings happiness. Again, I do what I do because I love my job and love the culture and with that comes happiness and endless earning potential. Just because they took a job because of security or benefits doesn't mean they are entitled to anything nor immune to change. Again, the gov't sector is still a business and when businesses are down.......

 

I'm not going to debate the safety aspect that I brought up with you. I, not you, know what I have seen and dealt with. FWIW, I am not in a union.

Fair enough. I'm sure you're work is different. Although I've worked with Unions around and even today, one of our facilities is unionized. I see what it does to the business and from a safety standpoint the union has zero influence on that. Our Mgt. team insures the best culture, best tools, and safest work environment because it's the right thing to do. The union is not needed for any of that. We are judged on performance and if better tools and safety measures yield higher quality and productivity, again, it doesn't take a union to get our people what they need.

 

In the end, SB5 still allowed unions to negotiate working conditions. So we've been beating a horse for no reason.

Edited November 10, 2011 by TTQ B4U

[TTQ B4U]

Its not any different but how many times can you expect the same group of people to take cuts? Is it going to be enough when everyone has to pay 100% for their benifits and makes minumum wage because our local goverment fucked this all up?

 

right back at you in terms of private sector. welcome to the party. again, state jobs shouldn't be any different and I've yet to hear why they should. In terms of benefits, IMO, expect to pay 25% of the premium. That's where the majority of people are at or headed. My real opinion....get into a high deductible plan and take control of your own destiny. THAT is likely where things will eventually go. so wouldn't you agree that it's time to fix the gov't and keep things from getting more fucked up? tossing more tax dollars at the state to continue doing what's been going on isn't the solution. Time for a change.

 

I'm not sure where the minimum wage thing comes in, but hey, there is always going to be a Min. Wage working class group. Just because they are in that group doesn't exempt them from having to pay for healthcare. All that gets worked out as part of that overall package I mentioned earlier. Pay plus benny's. Taking the job is a choice they made. They have to be able to live within the means they have. It's not easy and never has been.

 

Don't get me wrong. I am all for sacrifice and I think it should be spread evenly across the board. You can not say ok guys we are not giving raises this year so we can help balance the budget. Com back 2 months later and say ok guys, you have to take 10 unpaid days off a year to help balance the budget. And again and again. It has been one thing after the other for more than the last year.

You're right, they don't have to do all of that. Would you prefer they just lay off 10% of their workforce instead? I see where you're coming from, but again, if the money isn't there, what do you expect? Where's the revenue to come from then? People are tired (I am most certainly tired) of the gov't reaching into my pocket. Go manage your business and leave my money alone Uncle Sam. Deal with your shit like every other business does. Believe me, if you think it sucks now, doing nothing, especially not helping bring about reform isn't going to make it any better.

 

The issue is that the mojority of the people who are affected by all of this don't make that kind of money and are living paycheck to paycheck. When you take and take and take then the well dries up and what do you have then?

What do you have then? I would ask what have they had until now? Have they not improved their education, skills, etc...you know, prepared themselves for times like this? I don't get it; how could people NOT make plans for times like this? If what you're saying is your wife has painted herself into a corner with no transferable skills or hasn't built a network of contacts to move into another job than how is that our responsibility? What's her role in all of this? What is she doing to make a change?

 

I don't mean to sound so harsh and I apologize if those are tough questions, but seriously, my insight is to make shit happen or tough out what you let happen to you. I know which one my wife and I choose. Believe me, the old saying if you aren't planning, you're planning to fail.

 

I dont think that State workers are exempt at all. I think that they have taken enough from them already and now its time to look at other places to cut costs. Our government mismanaged the state budget NOT the state employees. How fair is it for the state employees to carry this entire burdeon? 3 raises in 7 years is good? Not by my standards. I have had some years without raises but not like that. Again, this is another thing that is part of their overall compensation package that they have already given up as well.

Sounds like we are OT a bit. All the impacts she's taken....so how was SB5 going to further hurt her or impact her unfairly?

 

I agree the gov't is broken and continues to mismanage things. Throwing more money at it or allowing the state to continue to control things isn't the answer. What SB5 was doing was breaking the unions control and exploitation of their "entitlements" --- are they do exist, and forcing the lessor gov't agencies to take over in terms of decision making.

 

Look at Dublin....the State is coming into MY TAX District and taking money from Dublin schools so that they can fund Columbus schools, causing a need for a levy in our area. THAT'S BULLSHIT! Push the responsibility down to the local districts and let Dublin run Dublin. Spreading the wealth is not fucking right.

[KennyFKINPowerz]

right back at you in terms of private sector. welcome to the party. again, state jobs shouldn't be any different and I've yet to hear why they should. In terms of benefits, IMO, expect to pay 25% of the premium. That's where the majority of people are at or headed. My real opinion....get into a high deductible plan and take control of your own destiny. THAT is likely where things will eventually go.

 

I'm not sure where the minimum wage thing comes in, but hey, there is always going to be a Min. Wage working class group. Just because they are in that group doesn't exempt them from having to pay for healthcare. All that gets worked out as part of that overall package I mentioned earlier. Pay plus benny's. Taking the job is a choice they made. They have to be able to live within the means they have. It's not easy and never has been.

 

You're right, they don't have to do all of that. Would you prefer they just lay off 10% of their workforce instead? I see where you're coming from, but again, if the money isn't there, what do you expect? Where's the revenue to come from then? People are tired (I am most certainly tired) of the gov't reaching into my pocket. Go manage your business and leave my money alone Uncle Sam. Deal with your shit like every other business does.

 

What do you have then? I would ask what have they had until now? Have they not improved their education, skills, etc...you know, prepared themselves for times like this? I don't get it; how could people NOT make plans for times like this? If what you're saying is your wife has painted herself into a corner with no transferable skills or hasn't built a network of contacts to move into another job than how is that our responsibility? What's her role in all of this? What is she doing to make a change?

 

I don't mean to sound so harsh and I apologize if those are tough questions, but seriously, my insight is to make shit happen or tough out what you let happen to you. I know which one my wife and I choose. Believe me, the old saying if you aren't planning, you're planning to fail.

 

Sounds like we are OT a bit. All the impacts she's taken....so how was SB5 going to further hurt her or impact her unfairly?

 

I agree the gov't is broken and continues to mismanage things. Throwing more money at it or allowing the state to continue to control things isn't the answer. What SB5 was doing was breaking the unions control and exploitation of their "entitlements" --- are they do exist, and forcing the lessor gov't agencies to take over in terms of decision making.

 

Look at Dublin....the State is coming into MY TAX District and taking money from Dublin schools so that they can fund Columbus schools, causing a need for a levy in our area. THAT'S BULLSHIT! Push the responsibility down to the local districts and let Dublin run Dublin. Spreading the wealth is not fucking right.

 

I dont think there would be an issue of paying 25% if thier pay was on par with the private sector. And if it were on par with the private sector then I would push for an increase in what the do pay for benefits. They get the cheaper benifits because of their low pay.

 

I understand that there is always going to be a need for minumum wage but what would you do if you all of the sudden had no choice but to make 7.50 an hour? Not speaking on my wifes behalf but yes there are people who have painted themselves in to a corner and may only have training in one particular area. Does that make it right to take that away from them and tell someone at say 50 years old, "sorry but you have to learn a new trade even though you have been doing this same job for the last 25 years? My wife and I both have an out and plans in case of disaster. Should she be forced to throw away the last 7 years that she has spent at the State trying to advance her position and make a better life for her family becaus ethe government mismanaged funds? I agree we are in a pickle and sacrifices need to be made but they need to be made evenly across the board. I feel that the majority of state worker have already done their part to help out. Is there room for more in there? Possibly but not the way Kasich had it layed out. I am for the things such as performance raises versus length of employment raises or performace raises for teacher based off of students performance but not in regards to state testing. If the govt is broken and continues to mismanage things then how can we expect them to take over in terms of decision making over the unions? If my wife had to pay more in to her benefits right now then that would be another cut in her pay so to speak. My wife has taken her share of cuts at work and had to forgo promotions and raises, she has taken her unpaid days from work, she has worked the jobs of 5 people because they could not hire people to do those jobs because of hiring freezes. She is doing way more for less.

[Furloaf]

The ignorant stupid masses helped the commies win this time.