V8 Beast Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 An officer isn't likely trying to search a car just because a guy has tats. Has it happened, likely, any number of things go down every day, but on a regular basis, I doubt it. They aren't going to waste their time unless they think they can make a bust and have something better to go on than just tats. I can't speak for those situations however, I've seen quite a variety of cars driven by all kinds of guys/kids and in many cases there are reasons a cop is going to pull a car over in order to get a better look at what the situation has to offer. Again, I doubt they are pulling over CR Guys just without some type of cause. Loud exhaust, speeding, broken lights, etc. By your comments they could have a field day when people roll in or out of Cars and Coffee, but they don't. There doesn't have to be a valid reason, the profiling makes it right.. having a valid reason removes the profiling and replaces it with proper procedure (even if it started as a result of profiling). I'm talking about the countless occurrences where the valid reason is replaced with a prejudice or past history that results in an unwarranted search and seizure. Stock cars here are profiled the same as modded ones. With racing, part of the profiling is it all happens at night. No street racer would be up for cars and coffee because they are up all night racing. There was a point after the George incident that we all had targets on our heads. Remember when f&f first came out? Every kid with a sports car was a street racer in cops eyes. My friend got pulled over for being next to a civic at a stop light. The officer called herself preventing a race and searched both cars for nitrous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Profiling is annoying and a waste of time in most situations. Occasionally it gives results... but is that one time worth the countless people harrassed? The cases will probably support it working but thats only because the innocent people profiled wont have cases or evidence it ever occurred. We all profile, but using it as an excuse to infringe on anothers right will never be acceptable. Absolutely and unequivocally incorrect. Profiling is an incredibly important tool to be used by law enforcement and intelligence agencies. You are not talking about profiling, and the media uses the term incorrectly as well. Racial profiling (it is crucial to include the word "racial") is largely useless and does not function in the way that actual profiling does. True profiling leads to a significant number of arrests and thwarts a fair amount of crimes. Further, profiling does not, by itself, infringe upon anyone's rights. The same rules of law apply to a person who has been profiled as to a person who was caught/identified using "conventional" means. A profile is not enough to overcome doubt nor is it enough to justify a search. Tl;dr: People don't understand the term "profiling." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 There doesn't have to be a valid reason, the profiling makes it right.. having a valid reason removes the profiling and replaces it with proper procedure (even if it started as a result of profiling). I'm talking about the countless occurrences where the valid reason is replaced with a prejudice or past history that results in an unwarranted search and seizure. The officer called herself preventing a race and searched both cars for nitrous You noted the issue in your post, "profiling" has led to "unwarranted" searches and seizures. That is why we have courts, they determine what was legal and what was not. If the search was truly unwarranted, no evidence obtained during it can be used in court. The officer in your story was very likely involved in a violation of people's rights. The side of the road is not a court room, and your friend could easily seek representation and fight any charge related to the search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Absolutely and unequivocally incorrect. Profiling is an incredibly important tool to be used by law enforcement and intelligence agencies. You are not talking about profiling, and the media uses the term incorrectly as well. Racial profiling (it is crucial to include the word "racial") is largely useless and does not function in the way that actual profiling does. True profiling leads to a significant number of arrests and thwarts a fair amount of crimes. Further, profiling does not, by itself, infringe upon anyone's rights. The same rules of law apply to a person who has been profiled as to a person who was caught/identified using "conventional" means. A profile is not enough to overcome doubt nor is it enough to justify a search. Tl;dr: People don't understand the term "profiling." I'm guessing you missed the part where I said cops should use it, and I do it myself. I agree with you 100%. And thanks for agreeing with me. Profiling can not be used as an excuse to infringe on others rights. Its a shame that it happens to people all the time that don't know their rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 I'm guessing you missed the part where I said cops should use it. And thanks for agreeing with me. Profiling can not be used as an excuse to infringe upon my rights. Its a shame that it happens to people all the time that don't know their rights. Regardless of whether or not you said that, the way you framed your responses suggests a different opinion. For example, you've reference multiple types (i.e., racial, physical appearance, etc...) of "profiling" which would not apply, by themselves, to a proper profile. What you've talked about has more to do with basic human psychology and improper training than anything else. When people are unable to remove their presuppositions (sagging pants are bad), they begin stereotyping. The attributes which these people apply are often incorrect, like in the case of your friend and the Honda. Their judgments should not be considered profiling as it detracts from what the technique actually entails. If people don't know their rights, they fuck themselves and I have no pity then. P.S. The sentence you highlighted is in reference to court decisions. It has nothing to do with what others have said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 There doesn't have to be a valid reason, the profiling makes it right.. having a valid reason removes the profiling and replaces it with proper procedure (even if it started as a result of profiling). I'm talking about the countless occurrences where the valid reason is replaced with a prejudice or past history that results in an unwarranted search and seizure. You're being pretty vague on this Brian with on the victimized side of a story being told. I'm not saying people of all races aren't harassed, but more often than not there's a good reason. Cops are bored and just out to pick on someone because of it. Now in terms of past history, yeah, that's valid to me. Even back in 1991 RK was guilty as can be and fit his own profile pretty well, even as time went on. Stock cars here are profiled the same as modded ones. With racing, part of the profiling is it all happens at night. No street racer would be up for cars and coffee because they are up all night racing. You know what, I would imagine that this first car is going to be looked at more closely than the second for what I would call some pretty good reasons. I bet you'd only have to follow him a couple blocks on a Saturday night as they leave C&C to figure out why too...and guess which one is owned by a black guy. not that it even matters. http://www.pbase.com/timothylauro/image/143912506 http://www.pbase.com/timothylauro/image/123275752 There was a point after the George incident that we all had targets on our heads. Remember when f&f first came out? Every kid with a sports car was a street racer in cops eyes. Honestly, George was wrong and IMO guilty just like the others with him and that incident absolutely gave LEO the greater sense of common sesnse that shit goes on along 270. Perhaps since, with all the heightened awareness, a life or two has been saved by it too. About 3.5yrs too late for George though. In terms of F&F, yeah and again, were the cops wrong? Nope...every time I watch that movie I can picture a bone stock Civic LX or EX driving like they were stars in the movie. Shit was everywhere and drove me nuts. My friend got pulled over for being next to a civic at a stop light. The officer called herself preventing a race and searched both cars for nitrous I'm sure it wasn't just for pulling up next to him. Again, me thinks there's a bit more to it than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 You noted the issue in your post, "profiling" has led to "unwarranted" searches and seizures. That is why we have courts, they determine what was legal and what was not. If the search was truly unwarranted, no evidence obtained during it can be used in court. The officer in your story was very likely involved in a violation of people's rights. The side of the road is not a court room, and your friend could easily seek representation and fight any charge related to the search. That is why we have courts, but they make mistakes too. When the people having their rights violated are of a lesser tax bracket poor representation is a biproduct. The charges were dropped for my friend. He said he was paid for his trouble thanks to his family lawyer. We still laugh about it.. the other week I changed his name plaque to B. O`Connor lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 That is why we have courts, but they make mistakes too. When the people having their rights violated are of a lesser tax bracket poor representation is a biproduct. The charges were dropped for my friend. He said he was paid for his trouble thanks to his family lawyer. We still laugh about it.. the other week I changed his name plaque to B. O`Connor lol. Yes, courts do make mistakes. Following those mistakes the appeals process allows for corrections. You're right, people are often underrepresented. That is the main reason I decided to pursue the career that I am. Unfortunately, life is not as cut and dry as we would like it to be. There will always be people victimized by "the system." Due to this, I would urge everyone to learn and understand their basic legal rights. My only argument in this thread is a semantic one, but one which I find important. Far too often the term profiling is used incorrectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 You're being pretty vague on this Brian with on the victimized side of a story being told. I'm not saying people of all races aren't harassed, but more often than not there's a good reason. Cops are bored and just out to pick on someone because of it. Now in terms of past history, yeah, that's valid to me. Even back in 1991 RK was guilty as can be and fit his own profile pretty well, even as time went on. You know what, I would imagine that this first car is going to be looked at more closely than the second for what I would call some pretty good reasons. I bet you'd only have to follow him a couple blocks on a Saturday night as they leave C&C to figure out why too...and guess which one is owned by a black guy. not that it even matters. http://www.pbase.com/timothylauro/image/143912506 http://www.pbase.com/timothylauro/image/123275752 Honestly, George was wrong and IMO guilty just like the others with him and that incident absolutely gave LEO the greater sense of common sesnse that shit goes on along 270. Perhaps since, with all the heightened awareness, a life or two has been saved by it too. About 3.5yrs too late for George though. In terms of F&F, yeah and again, were the cops wrong? Nope...every time I watch that movie I can picture a bone stock Civic LX or EX driving like they were stars in the movie. Shit was everywhere and drove me nuts. I'm sure it wasn't just for pulling up next to him. Again, me thinks there's a bit more to it than that. Most of the profiling I've seen in my life has nothing to do with race. Its mostly car type to area, and age. Going to college in OU you would think we were all drunk losers. My friend is a nerd who had a Honda accord at the time. No speeding tickets in his life and a baby on board sticker on the back. He pulled up beside the wrong kind of car at a light at the wrong time. Nothing more nothing less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Most of the profiling I've seen in my life has nothing to do with race. Its mostly car type to area, and age. Going to college in OU you would think we were all drunk losers. My friend is a nerd who had a Honda accord at the time. No speeding tickets in his life and a baby on board sticker on the back. He pulled up beside the wrong kind of car at a light at the wrong time. Nothing more nothing less. Sometimes stereotyping is correct. :gabe: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Profiling can not be used as an excuse to infringe on others rights. Its a shame that it happens to people all the time that don't know their rights. If people don't know their rights, they fuck themselves and I have no pity then. I'm with Hal on this one. If it happens all the time and people permit it, regardless of why, then it's their own damn fault. A LEO's job upon pulling you over isn't to help you do shit except get yourself in trouble. Thus why you don't say shit. I'm not for that same officer asking to search a car simply because the driver has tattoos. I'm not for an officer pulling someone over (that's not doing anything wrong) because of how they look. Members here get profiled all the time and hate it. Just because we drive fast cars doesn't mean we street race. Its more likely because we have fast cars, but that doesn't give them the right to harass us just in case. I'd love to hear more about how these CR Members fought the situation in court as I would be very entertained to see the officer say they pulled them over for how they looked or just because of "what" they drove. There's more to both situations and I don't have to even pause to think about if there is or isn't. My friend got pulled over for being next to a civic at a stop light. The officer called herself preventing a race and searched both cars for nitrous Both drivers had to permit the search. If you're telling me no that they didn't and weren't given and option and were still admitted that they were wronged, then again, I'd love to see their court details. If they didn't do anything, then they agreed to both being pulled over and being searched. As they say, either speak up or shut up. Sounds like they shut up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Its mostly car type to area, and age. Going to college in OU you would think we were all drunk losers. My friend is a nerd who had a Honda accord at the time. No speeding tickets in his life and a baby on board sticker on the back. He pulled up beside the wrong kind of car at a light at the wrong time. Nothing more nothing less. So I would imagine the officer pulled him over based on something she observed. Again, you won't easily convince me that the female LEO saw a kid on or near the OU party school campus likely in moms car, hence the reason for the baby on board sticker just innocently pull up to a light and then jumped for her lights to pull him over with absolutely no cause other than she felt she was preventing a race. Sorry, that doesn't make sense. None. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Yes, courts do make mistakes. Following those mistakes the appeals process allows for corrections. You're right, people are often underrepresented. That is the main reason I decided to pursue the career that I am. Unfortunately, life is not as cut and dry as we would like it to be. There will always be people victimized by "the system." Due to this, I would urge everyone to learn and understand their basic legal rights. My only argument in this thread is a semantic one, but one which I find important. Far too often the term profiling is used incorrectly. I implied it but you're right. Its an over and misused term. Having a weed smell in your car and driving 90mph is why you got arrested. Not because you were being racially profiled. I even agree with Tim that its great when done right. I'm arguing when profiling turns to unjustified actions. In a perfect world the cop will have a valid reason, but this isn't a perfect world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 So I would imagine the officer pulled him over based on something she observed. Again, you won't easily convince me that the female LEO saw a kid on or near the OU party school campus likely in moms car, hence the reason for the baby on board sticker just innocently pull up to a light and then jumped for her lights to pull him over with absolutely no cause other than she felt she was preventing a race. Sorry, that doesn't make sense. None. OU is seperate from the search and seizure. My friend won a case against the cop because she was in the wrong. She had no reason to search either car because they were not in the act, nor did he display any behaviors that would make her think that. In OU the police officers were pretty bad about searching people just in case. My crowd didn't have anything to hide (and were dumb) so we just let them do it. Looking back on it, we were stupid. I never even thought twice about that until now. I'm a little upset. My jimmies = rustled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 I'm arguing when profiling turns to unjustified actions. In a perfect world the cop will have a valid reason, but this isn't a perfect world. I'll agree with you that the world isn't perfect and the odds role in favor of the bad guy. We often worry to much about the rights of those who are likely in the wrong because we feel the need to protect the masses of those who are innocent and hang that argument on rights and not wanting to give them up. The reason I don't care nor worry is I know I don't fit into the profile of someone who is going to be harassed nor do I put myself in that situation. Those that do can control their situation just the same but choose not to. That said, remember, this isn't a perfect world and if it takes a few guys getting pulled over for a burnt tail light or going 5mph over the limit and then being asked a few questions they don't know they shouldn't answer, then so be it. I say that as I'm in favor of giving cops and those like me that want the criminals caught, a bit of an edge in catching the bad guys. Even if it means some will be butt hurt because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 In OU the police officers were pretty bad about searching people just in case. In terms of cops being aggressive on searches, IMO rightfully so. OU and any college campus like that usually has a different profile of people driving around on a Saturday night than say downtown Hilliard. Let's not be dumb shall we. Our families are on the roads and we know what goes on at OU and on campuses across the nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Sometimes stereotyping is correct. :gabe: Hush :lolguy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Bastard Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Yes, courts do make mistakes. Following those mistakes the appeals process allows for corrections. You're right, people are often underrepresented. That is the main reason I decided to pursue the career that I am. Unfortunately, life is not as cut and dry as we would like it to be. There will always be people victimized by "the system." Due to this, I would urge everyone to learn and understand their basic legal rights. My only argument in this thread is a semantic one, but one which I find important. Far too often the term profiling is used incorrectly. ever given any thought to doing a write up for basic rights for clarification to those on the board who either don't know them, or think they do but are wrong? serious question. I know it could be a lengthy write up, but given your chosen field of study you would posses a wealth of knowledge on the subject. it could save some cr members some money, or keep them out of jail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) In terms of cops being aggressive on searches, IMO rightfully so. OU and any college campus like that usually has a different profile of people driving around on a Saturday night than say downtown Hilliard. Let's not be dumb shall we. Our families are on the roads and we know what goes on at OU and on campuses across the nation. Its was more of a walk up to you, take your backpack, and start going through it thing. We shouldnt have let them do that, but at 18 they intimidated us. I just started going home on the weekends to avoid the whole thing. It eventually escalated to rubber bullets and a big mess with daylight savings. I changed schools after that. Regardless of whether or not you said that, the way you framed your responses suggests a different opinion. For example, you've reference multiple types (i.e., racial, physical appearance, etc...) of "profiling" which would not apply, by themselves, to a proper profile. What you've talked about has more to do with basic human psychology and improper training than anything else. When people are unable to remove their presuppositions (sagging pants are bad), they begin stereotyping. The attributes which these people apply are often incorrect, like in the case of your friend and the Honda. Their judgments should not be considered profiling as it detracts from what the technique actually entails. If people don't know their rights, they fuck themselves and I have no pity then. P.S. The sentence you highlighted is in reference to court decisions. It has nothing to do with what others have said. My friend didnt fit the typical profile because his car wasnt a typical sports car. The officer however thought it was a sports car thus classifying him in the same category as the civic. Since the profile at that time would point towards imported cars being more likely to be involved in racing she acted. Since they were not in the act of racing she was basically stereotyping (which is just another word for assuming). Her actions in her mind were based on facts even though the end result was an assumption that the races would take place based on the cars involved. She didnt think she was stereotyping, she thought she was doing her job. The courts saw it as stereotyping. In college we were profiled because the officers knew kids on campus were more likely to have drugs and alcohol on their persons in the area of restaurants, clubs, and bars. Its the same way an officer is told minorities in SUV's near MT Vernon are more likely to posses drugs. The stereotype to that is all minorities near MT Vernon in SUV's have drugs. If the officer pulls over an SUV in this area for a random check its fine based on the profile. Using that profile as an excuse to violate rights is not ok. Having that profile gives them the right to pull the driver over and do a spot check for safety concerns as its their job.... It does not give them the right to search the car without permission based on that profile without a valid reason i.e. smell of drugs in the car. As you stated this is when the courts would get involved if an unlawful search lead to an arrest. In a typical conversation these days I wouldnt go into as much detail because my online time is limited (you guys should feel special, this is the longest Ive been on CR in 9 months lol!). The problem isnt profiling itself, its stereotyping as a result of profiling. Its the assumption of wrong doing with no evidence that leads to rights being violated. The problem is the officers think they are justified and reference profiling as their method when its really not profiling being used. Some of what Tim is suggesting I see as stereotyping, and thats that part Im speaking to. I would have to assume profiling turns to stereotyping at the drop of a hat in real world situations... That or the profile itself is based off of stereotypes. For the sake of the conversation I didnt take the time to differentiate as it was a nice back and forth debate. The separation was saying I am for profiling, but only when its done right. If you really think about it when you do it wrong its not proper profiling. The only way I can think of it being done wrong is mixing incorrect info with facts. Even that wouldnt cause the search it would cause the wrong person to be pulled over. I guess the bottom line we are all trying to get across is you cant argue facts. You can only argue what the people do with those facts. I've got a long day at work so I probably wont be able to be as involved with this discussion Its nice to have an adult conversation without people calling each other names and stuff. Thats usually all I see as I lurk on my lunch breaks. I understand where Tim is coming from, and I understand why Hal wanted to keeps profilings good name as it takes the blame by being grouped in with other things constantly. For Hals sake we should be debating if stereotyping is justified. I think we all agree that profiling (the non-racial kind) is good. Later guys Edited June 18, 2012 by V8 Beast Signing off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 RIP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87GT Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 IMO profiling is acceptable if a crime has already been committed and the law is searching for the individual or individuals. Any profiling before a crime is committed is not fair. What would be fair is questioning but not detaining everyone. I couldn't see that happening anytime soon. It would make security checkpoints like the fucking airport a lot quicker to pass through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Its nice to have an adult conversation without people calling each other names and stuff. Some of what Tim is suggesting I see as stereotyping, and thats that part Im speaking to. I would have to assume profiling turns to stereotyping at the drop of a hat in real world situations. For Hals sake we should be debating if stereotyping is justified. I think we all agree that profiling (the non-racial kind) is good. Later guys First-off, Holy paragraph there Brian! Gabe is going to have a field day with that. My sig now applies to you :gabe: Second, in terms of name calling, you know I wouldn't pull that on you. We were up too late and having way to deep of a conversation for trolls to understand anyway. In terms of profiling and stereotyping, yes, I see where you're coming from and IMO still stand by the fact that stereotyping while not perfect nor by definition could it be, works and is more true than false. I would especially say this in terms of gender and race vs say nationality or place of origin. I mean no doubt you're going to see young males profiled in traffic for racing and reckless behavior way more so than middle aged soccer moms. You can't dismiss race either. When I see a mid 90's purple mustang with flames on it with 6 Mexicans inside going the speed limit exactly, it's not likely because they give a shit about me and the family in our van behind them, it's because they likely don't have insurance or a licensed driver and are doing everything they can to avoid being pulled over. Sorry if that pisses anyone off but I'm sure you've seen it. I'm sorry if I see Hemi rolling on 20's with a couple of brothers inside or a beat up F-Body with a couple shirtless Darrell and Darrells hanging out at the UDF on Murfield Drive, I'm not exactly going to think they are just stopping by for a drink on the way to the community pool near. Yeah, if I were a cop, I'd say they fit a profile that's not indicative of normal for the surroundings and likely observe their behavior or perhaps go so far as to find a reason to pull them over and investigate further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 ever given any thought to doing a write up for basic rights for clarification to those on the board who either don't know them, or think they do but are wrong? serious question. I know it could be a lengthy write up, but given your chosen field of study you would posses a wealth of knowledge on the subject. it could save some cr members some money, or keep them out of jail. No, not at this time. Right now I don't have near the amount of knowledge required to prepare a really worthwhile document. Maybe in the future I'll put something together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 ever given any thought to doing a write up for basic rights for clarification to those on the board who either don't know them, or think they do but are wrong? serious question. No, not at this time. Right now I don't have near the amount of knowledge required to prepare a really worthwhile document. Maybe in the future I'll put something together. Until then what would work best for everyone concern is to watch re-runs of COPS and you'll quickly realize the best thing to say is NO to searches and that when asked questions say nothing. If any conversations have to be had because of the situation you're in, lawyer up. When I got busted for a high rate of speed the cop made all kinds of comments about WTF and where were you coming from, what are you doing, why this, what that......ah...NO. I just very respectfully asked him if this all means I'm going to be cited and his reply was an enthusiastic "oh yeah" I then handed him my license and said if there's any other demographic information you need let me know and I informed him that now I was going to roll up my window due to the temperature outside. He got my point and during the court hearing where I was there to fight it, those were the only notes he had on the back of his ticket. I walked out with a basic 2pt speed violation. :jerkit: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Until then what would work best for everyone concern is to watch re-runs of COPS and you'll quickly realize the best thing to say is NO to searches and that when asked questions say nothing. If any conversations have to be had because of the situation you're in, lawyer up. When I got busted for a high rate of speed the cop made all kinds of comments about WTF and where were you coming from, what are you doing, why this, what that......ah...NO. I just very respectfully asked him if this all means I'm going to be cited and his reply was an enthusiastic "oh yeah" I then handed him my license and said if there's any other demographic information you need let me know and I informed him that now I was going to roll up my window due to the temperature outside. He got my point and during the court hearing where I was there to fight it, those were the only notes he had on the back of his ticket. I walked out with a basic 2pt speed violation. :jerkit: Beyond that, here's a nice long informational video by the ACLU. Like I said, it's long. If you do watch it, there's some good info in there about how to assert your rights during an encounter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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