Orion Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Chief, do you mind if I ask who it is that you work for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDHG940 Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Chief, do you mind if I ask who it is that you work for? (AEP)? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 (AEP)? Well, that would be my guess, but I am not going to jump to conclusions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Some peeps hur don't seem to understand utilities very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImUrOBGYN Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 I'm in here for some learning. I've been curious about all this rate shit. I've wondered if it's worth switching away from AEP but I'm just not knowledgable enough about this electricity business. Please, keep this thread informative! Most of us could use the xtra dollars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodRed Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 The PUCO is a joke. Ask anyone living in Huber Ridge about their water bill, and the PUCO keeps allowing our water company to continue to raise our rates each year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 I work with 12 different suppliers in Ohio (Including AEP Energy, so as not to seem like I am playing favorites) and I signed up for the FES residential program. Of the three that I was offered (Border, AEP, and FES), it had the lowest price and the clearest terms. If you live in AEP territory, that is probably going to be your best bet as well. If you have a business that you would like to explore the savings for, by all means, get in touch with me. More than happy to help walk you through your options. To expound a bit on the rate thing, it basically boils down to this. Capacity is a charge that all utilities have to build in to their pricing. It is essentially a fee to BE ABLE to provide power at a moments notice to the maximum amount of load possible in an area. (Gross oversimplification) As an analogy, think in terms of a boosted engine. kWh represents the AMOUNT of air that the engine is actually burning, in total. kW represents that PEAK FLOW of that air at any one point over a period of time in the engines life cycle. We don't alway drive our cars around at WOT, so the PEAK kW is usually represented by a spike in a graph, whereas the rest of our curve would be relatively flat. Utiliy companies have to ALWAYS be ready and able to provide that peak flow to you, however, and the method by which they charge us for this service is capacity. In real life, this is a fee for infrastructure, as AEP has to build the lines and susbstations to support this flow. All utilities in Ohio work within an Independant Systems operator called PJM. PJM has regular auctions for this capacity charge, because there are several energy suppliers who don't actually OWN any of the infrastructure, but are still required to collect the fee from customers and pay the fee to the utilities. The PJM auction price for all capacity in the State of Ohio for this year is set at $16. As Chief said, that is not always the settled total price, but that is the auction rate that the total price is based off of. AEP has underrecovered that cost over the course of the current rate case, and would like to be able to get their money back (as they are entitled to), however, the method of their filing was so structured in order to kill two birds with one stone. Not only did they propose raising the capacity rates (To the ungodly number that I mentioned before) but also structured it so that ONLY customers who had switched to an alternative supplier would pay the fee. So, had you left AEP for a better rate, AEP was going to hit you with this huge upcharge on capacity, in most cases bringing your new rate to one that was higher than what you had on tariff in the first place. In an open market, that cannot be permitted. The PUCO, dumbasses that they are, in January approved this tariff for AEP, with modifications. The public outcry at that point was so great that three months later, in an unprecedented move, the PUCO blew up the tariff and told AEP to start from scratch.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 ...and AEP turned around and pretty much refiled the same damn tariff, and then the politicking began in earnest. Mondays decision means increased rates across the board for ALL people in AEP through a non-bypassable rider added to your distribution rate. HOWEVER, the genius of it lies in this...AEP will get to collect it's capacity charges, so it should be appeased. The ACTUAL capacity rate will stay at the auction rate, so the other suppliers will still be competing on a level playing field. The consumer, who will face the prospoect of higher tariff charges, will still be able to go out and find a better rate from somewhere else and take advantage of that rate with no penalty. And the market remains open and competitive, which is best for everyone. As a total non-believer in the PUCO, I have to say, they made a very good decision this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Out of curiousity through this power outage, I was wondering about the feasibility of generating your own electricity. In looking at some Generac models, a 2500sqft residential dwelling could be powered off of a $9000 unit. That's a lot of dough, but with natural gas prices dropping, is there any research done by an individual or group that possibly shows a NatGas electrical generator being a reliable replacement for the electric company? I spoke to a UA police officer yesterday as I was volunteering for a 4th of July parade, and in discussions he said the biggest concern - aside from $$$ and wear on the generator - would be noise levels possibly being offensive to neighbors. EDIT: Here's a good story about living "off-the-grid" SOUNDS EXPENSIVE AND NOT TOTALLY RELIABLE. Thanks, Google!:thumbup: http://www.dannylipford.com/living-off-the-grid-generating-your-own-electricity/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWW$HEEET Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Out of curiousity through this power outage, I was wondering about the feasibility of generating your own electricity. In looking at some Generac models, a 2500sqft residential dwelling could be powered off of a $9000 unit. That's a lot of dough, but with natural gas prices dropping, is there any research done by an individual or group that possibly shows a NatGas electrical generator being a reliable replacement for the electric company? I spoke to a UA police officer yesterday as I was volunteering for a 4th of July parade, and in discussions he said the biggest concern - aside from $$$ and wear on the generator - would be noise levels possibly being offensive to neighbors. I doubt any self generated power would be cheaper than what AEP provides. You don't have the economies of scale that they already have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Natural Gas is indeed at all time lows in cost this year, however, as Gabe stated, that number can and will change every day, often every five minutes. Plus, you will be buying it retail most likely, and those companies add their own margin to the costs. The AEP bill provides you with some very good info, in the form of your Price to Compare. Do the metrics, if you can generate your own electricity for less than around 9 cents per kWh, then you will be ahead. Of note, AEP has a POLR clause. Meaning that if you leave their tariff, and then come back, you will be obligated to stay for 12 months before they will let you leave again. So, you can't switch back and forth every month based upon the cost of NatGas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2highpsi Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Out of curiousity through this power outage, I was wondering about the feasibility of generating your own electricity. In looking at some Generac models, a 2500sqft residential dwelling could be powered off of a $9000 unit. That's a lot of dough, but with natural gas prices dropping, is there any research done by an individual or group that possibly shows a NatGas electrical generator being a reliable replacement for the electric company? I spoke to a UA police officer yesterday as I was volunteering for a 4th of July parade, and in discussions he said the biggest concern - aside from $$$ and wear on the generator - would be noise levels possibly being offensive to neighbors. EDIT: Here's a good story about living "off-the-grid" SOUNDS EXPENSIVE AND NOT TOTALLY RELIABLE. Thanks, Google!:thumbup: http://www.dannylipford.com/living-off-the-grid-generating-your-own-electricity/ I've been looking into the Generac units myself. Pretty much just for back up though, not really to "go off the grid". I found the 20kw automated system with the switch for as low as $3900 with free shipping and no tax. Install quotes were as low as $500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87GT Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 I doubt any self generated power would be cheaper than what AEP provides. You don't have the economies of scale that they already have. It wouldn't be it would cost more. What you could do though is install more then one way of creating electricity, wind, solar, water if possible on your property. Then generate more then you need to sell back to the grid. Are you going to make $$$ quickly to recoup everything? Nope. Are you going to stay there for many years and also reduce your personal energy demand? Maybe. It is possible to run lighting for your house off of propane. You can make an underground room to store your perishables and not need a refrigerator. The Amish already do this. You should have some knowledge on that subject There are other ways to reduce or cut out demand on electricity all together. A lot can be learned for reading books on the subject of "living off the grid". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) I worked with AEP and Columbia gas for several years now and can expand on the subject, though DJ has done very well. AEP is a utility, with that said they have a certain way of doing business. They are slow, methodical and actually have a very real interest in their customers opinions. "You want what you can't have". Unfortunately they cannot have their profit margin, benefits and pensions and be liked by their customers running a monopoly like any utility... AEP would like you to turn off your power between the hours stated because of the grid demand it requires to take hundreds of thousands of homes from temperatures in the 80's down to the high 60's. Too many people slam their thermostat to unreasonable temperatures to cool the home faster and often forget they did so. The demand is unreasonable. Or so they would like you to believe... With your power off AEP then has the ability to send a tech to your house. That tech will be of the upmost professilnalism and will instantly win you over on your doorstep. In his utility belt he will have a box of free lightbulbs and in that box will be a little green minion. The minion will burrow underneath your floorboard and unlock what will later be discovered as a link between earth and hell. Thats not where it ends. This gate will need closed by a priest of your choosing. He will arrive to address the minions and will do so, however, he is an AEP insurgent and he's now in your home. He will kill you and leave you. Upon exit he will turn on every electric using device and the bill will be sent to your immediate family. Edited July 6, 2012 by Miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unfunnyryan Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Say electric prices shot up and natural gas prices went further down. If you ran a generator and had the proper setup to feed back into the grid, what would prices have to be for you to be turning the gas into money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Say electric prices shot up and natural gas prices went further down. If you ran a generator and had the proper setup to feed back into the grid, what would prices have to be for you to be turning the gas into money? That would be an extremely improbable occurrance, as Natural Gas prices and electric prices stay very similar throughout the year. There are a very large number of generating plants that run on Natural Gas, and as soon as the prices dip below that of the other methods for creating electricity, they run those generators, thus buying Gas and driving the prices back up. I cannot help you with a number, however. I believe AEP has a special tariff rate for that. You can "shed" load and charge the capacity rate back to AEP, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.