351mach11647545510 Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 outside of a firearm, we use this at work. http://www.peppersprayhq.com/fox-labs-mark-5-flip-top-4oz.-pepper-spray.html its bad ass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillJoy Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 outside of a firearm, we use this at work. http://www.peppersprayhq.com/fox-labs-mark-5-flip-top-4oz.-pepper-spray.html its bad ass Fox Brand of defensive spray, Taser C2, Remington 870. :thumbup: KillJoy KillJoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillJoy Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 KillJoy PS - They sell this at Vance's. :thumbup: KillJoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99FLHRCI Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 which would require a CCW? I would not be comfortable answering that as I don't know for sure. I often call or stop the local PD and ask questions regarding the legality of things and they are always more then happy to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedfocus1647545489 Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 My wife carries Wildfire 18% OC Pepper Spray 24/7. Shit is serious... As a secondary she usually has this also. More serious. http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/thumb/0/0e/S%26W6906.jpg/350px-S%26W6906.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedfocus1647545489 Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Also, like any weapon - a little training and practice is a good idea, even with non-lethal. Almost no one seems to practice with pepper spray, which could easily lead to macing everyone including yourself in a pinch. You can get inert mace/pepper spray sprayers in many sizes and types. Just get a couple that are similar to the Mace/PS you intend to carry and practice with it. Especially in wind. There are likely some YouTube vids with good info/tactics for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stangsn95gt Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 he is asking for non lethal though. hell, i would say use a 12 gauge with sodium shells.that would stop someone pretty quick. :dumb: You should stop giving advice now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Cranium Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Non lethal? How about a .22? The noise would probably scare away an intruder or attacker, and will most likely poke some nice small holes in them if she aims. Unless she shoots them in the head they will probably survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 outside of a firearm, we use this at work. http://www.peppersprayhq.com/fox-labs-mark-5-flip-top-4oz.-pepper-spray.html its bad ass PS - They sell this at Vance's. :thumbup: KillJoy This is the pepper I was referencing was posted about. It's some serious shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copperhead Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Non lethal? How about a .22? The noise would probably scare away an intruder or attacker, and will most likely poke some nice small holes in them if she aims. Unless she shoots them in the head they will probably survive. Never shoot to injure. It can be proven in court that the threat wasn't serious enough to warrant shooting. You shoot to stop the threat, not scare away. Pepper spray is for scaring away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Also, like any weapon - a little training and practice is a good idea, even with non-lethal. Almost no one seems to practice with pepper spray, which could easily lead to macing everyone including yourself in a pinch. You can get inert mace/pepper spray sprayers in many sizes and types. Just get a couple that are similar to the Mace/PS you intend to carry and practice with it. Especially in wind. There are likely some YouTube vids with good info/tactics for this. This^ I actually had a guy try to pepper spray me once and he ended up hitting himself square in the eyes with it, total prank fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillJoy Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Never shoot to injure. Pretty much. Dead men tell no tales. :megusta: KillJoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 You really need to get your GF to rethink the whole "non-lethal" thing because the bad guy ain't gonna give a crap when she doesn't try hard enough to stop the threat. The bad guy is there to do bad things and if they break into her home then she's not likely going to get help before its to late even in a nice part of town with an alarm system. She needs to warm up to the idea of guns, take her to blackwing or somewhere and let her see the other women on the pistol range. My wife was impressed and started shooting. Then get guns, train your children and let them shoot. My 4yr old daughter shoots my AR-15 and thinks its a blast, but she knows not to touch it without me around. Myself I have a pistol on me 100% of the time. I'm also not a big supporter of women doing self defence training, unless they train hard and practice often they are just going to get themselves hurt and likely their attempt at resistance will be enjoyed by the attacker. Of course self defence classes do give a women some confidence which in itself could be enough to cause a scene and get help to respond. As someone said, "using their brain" is the best defense really and that goes for those of us who could fight off an attacker as well. Not being in the situation, being aware of your surroundings if you can't avoid bad areas, and being ready with an escape, or resist plan is the best bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillJoy Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 I'm also not a big supporter of women doing self defence training, unless they train hard and practice often they are just going to get themselves hurt and likely their attempt at resistance will be enjoyed by the attacker. PS - Guys have balls. True story. Knee them. Hit them. Bite them. Squeeze them. ANY woman NOT fighting back just giving up. :dumb: KillJoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 PS - Guys have balls. True story. Knee them. Hit them. Bite them. Squeeze them. ANY woman NOT fighting back just giving up. :dumb: KillJoy I understand the thought process, but that is the sort of myth that will get a person hurt. On the play ground a "nut shot" results in 50 boys falling to the ground holding themselves, but out on the street against a drugged up zombie its just gonna make them rage kill you then rape you. Oh and in an actual fight a nut shot is pretty hard to pull off. A guy can simply twist left or right or move a leg and the shot hits hard muscle/tissue and you possibly just got your leg grabbed or arm trapped if the attacker has any brains at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 I understand the thought process, but that is the sort of myth that will get a person hurt. On the play ground a "nut shot" results in 50 boys falling to the ground holding themselves, but out on the street against a drugged up zombie its just gonna make them rage kill you then rape you. Oh and in an actual fight a nut shot is pretty hard to pull off. A guy can simply twist left or right or move a leg and the shot hits hard muscle/tissue and you possibly just got your leg grabbed or arm trapped if the attacker has any brains at all. :no: Have you ever practiced or been trained in martial arts? I used to teach self defense classes in college (Jujitsu and Savate) and rule #1 is always to fight. Statics even prove in a male on female actual attack, survivors are the ones who fight. In terms of a nut shot in the real world, it's a great move and delivered correctly is an excellent initial blow. I always teach the initial locations of vulnerability, groin, throat, ears, eyes, solar plexus, base of neck, etc.... Rule #1 on the street is to avoid showing off and kicking higher than the groin. Save the head shots for when they are on the ground. From an attack standpoint, a solid rear leg cross stomp to the side of the knee will take out most any size attacker. Quite possibly one of the best ways to immobilize them and easy as saying goodbye after a groin shot. Even an small framed soccer mom can execute both moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedfocus1647545489 Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 :no: Have you ever practiced or been trained in martial arts? I used to teach self defense classes in college (Jujitsu and Savate) and rule #1 is always to fight. Statics even prove in a male on female actual attack, survivors are the ones who fight. In terms of a nut shot in the real world, it's a great move and delivered correctly is an excellent initial blow. I always teach the initial locations of vulnerability, groin, throat, ears, eyes, solar plexus, base of neck, etc.... Rule #1 on the street is to avoid showing off and kicking higher than the groin. Save the head shots for when they are on the ground. From an attack standpoint, a solid rear leg cross stomp to the side of the knee will take out most any size attacker. Quite possibly one of the best ways to immobilize them and easy as saying goodbye after a groin shot. Don't forget the shin rake. Damn hard to block and effective as hell. I'm a dude but I promise you if you grab me from behind your fucking shins will get raked like you tried to rape the 50 foot woman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustlestiltskin Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Break the wrist and walk away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboGoKart Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Look into a lethal option. If the piece of shit is dead, then we don't have to pay for their imprisonment. True story +295821965968. 12gauge with non-lethal rounds is great. Good spread, don't have to aim super accurately in close spaces (house, etc.). Can also be used for lethal. Taser. In the LE world, the taser prevents a LARGE number of situations from developing into something more, or something lethal. On top of that, it is HIGHLY effective as a deterrent. Bad guys know you have to have a good reason to shoot them, whereas you don't have to have the same reason to pull and deploy your taser. A lot of people stop resisting at the mere sight of one. Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Yeah I lived karate from ten to about twenty years old. I still train enough to keep it fresh in my memory. Sure you and I can fight six ninjas while eating a corn dog, but thats a little off topic. Example, my sister is a very fit personal trainer/gym manager yet couldn't fight her way out of a paper sack. I would rather she shoot a guy then try to poker his eyes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 The will to survive and the attitude to do what it takes to survive will trump all the training, guns, sprays, etc though. She's gotta realise what a bad guy is and what that means and then be prepared to remove the threat at any cost, especially in a home invasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Nice Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Yeah I lived karate from ten to about twenty years old. I still train enough to keep it fresh in my memory. Sure you and I can fight six ninjas while eating a corn dog, but thats a little off topic. Example, my sister is a very fit personal trainer/gym manager yet couldn't fight her way out of a paper sack. I would rather she shoot a guy then try to poker his eyes out. This and most of what you said about women and self defense is severely flawed, as Steve and pdqgp stated. Alexis Acosta over at Ohio Krav Maga was wrapped burrito style in a queen sized sheet then a queen sized heavy comforter, had 4 large men try to hold her down in a home invasion seminar and despite being (if I recall correctly) ~5'0" and 110 lbs fought them all off. She had zero athletic ability before starting Krav and was intimidated by it at first. Being fit doesn't mean jack crap in real world self defense. Being a trainer lends zero credibility to your sisters ability to not just meet an attackers level of ferocity but to rise above it and not stop until the threat is neutralized. Imi designed Krav not to earn belts or trophies but so that he, and eventually his countrymen, could live. I'm 6'1", 295 lbs and a Level 2 Student. My instructor is approx. 5'8" and 150 lbs and I can't friggin' stop the guy. We have a female in our gym who is also a Level 2 and she weighs about 125 and whoops most of our butts almost 100% of the time. In Krav size doesn't matter. It was designed to work for anyone of any size and any skill set range since it is taught to 100% of the IDF, both male and female (as you all know everyone in Israel serves for at least 2 years). Also, in Krav we're taught not to bow to an opponent on a mat or strike and wait to defend. We don't train to fight in a sanctioned arena vs. one guy with a ref to stop the fight if anything "illegal" takes place. No holds barred. Anything goes. One class we may be working on form in the gym and the other we may be outside on a gravel lot in a thunderstorm working on carotid choke from the mount and in the winter we may be out working on headlock and choke defenses on ice. No matter the situation, one must adapt, rise above, and overcome. DISCLAIMER: I'm not getting into a pissing match about Krav vs. other martial arts, I'm just using what I practice and know to disprove these ridiculous claims. Also, FWIW, along with Krav I too carry and believe in my trusty 12g, 9mm, and various other tools for HD, but as stated, they're just tools. The weapon is the person behind them and their level of training. That's why I always recommend self defense of some sort and advanced weapons training. Just my .02 on the situation as it's presented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 You missed my point completely and might as well bitch about my grammar next. You did however prove me wrong on the nut shot, as I must have hit your epeen pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brrcats Posted July 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Look into a lethal option. If the piece of shit is dead, then we don't have to pay for their imprisonment. My thoughts exactly, if the person in question were to attempt something, it would be felonious in nature. Enough drugs renders both of those ineffective. Hell, alcohol can even lessen the effect of mace to a nuisance. Tazer you have one shot, better not miss. Stun guns put you in knife/fist/grabbing range. I don't know of anyone that has built up a tolerance to bullets before. I'm not as worried about someone on drugs, yes that threat is always present, but I'm more worried about someone who's gone off the deep end mentally. You really need to get your GF to rethink the whole "non-lethal" thing because the bad guy ain't gonna give a crap when she doesn't try hard enough to stop the threat. The bad guy is there to do bad things and if they break into her home then she's not likely going to get help before its to late even in a nice part of town with an alarm system. She needs to warm up to the idea of guns, take her to blackwing or somewhere and let her see the other women on the pistol range. My wife was impressed and started shooting. Then get guns, train your children and let them shoot. My 4yr old daughter shoots my AR-15 and thinks its a blast, but she knows not to touch it without me around. Myself I have a pistol on me 100% of the time. I'm also not a big supporter of women doing self defence training, unless they train hard and practice often they are just going to get themselves hurt and likely their attempt at resistance will be enjoyed by the attacker. Of course self defence classes do give a women some confidence which in itself could be enough to cause a scene and get help to respond. As someone said, "using their brain" is the best defense really and that goes for those of us who could fight off an attacker as well. Not being in the situation, being aware of your surroundings if you can't avoid bad areas, and being ready with an escape, or resist plan is the best bet. I really appreciate all the replies I was talking to her a bit about it last night. I think the big thing for her is that she would be comprimising her beliefs in owning/using a gun. I think I'm wearing her down though. Its not like she hasnt shot or doesnt have experience with firearms. I think she may just have a moral objection to it at this point. In my mind, I'll do whatever it takes to ensure the security of my family. The plan at this point is a security system for her home, a taser for the home, then some fox spray for the purse. I would like to see a shotgun and a small caliber handgun come into the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Nice Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 You missed my point completely and might as well bitch about my grammar next. You did however prove me wrong on the nut shot, as I must have hit your epeen pretty well. 1) I didn't miss your point, I disproved it. You stated, and I quote: "I'm also not a big supporter of women doing self defence training, unless they train hard and practice often they are just going to get themselves hurt and likely their attempt at resistance will be enjoyed by the attacker." If they're taking self defense they're training. If they're training they're practicing. If they're training/practicing the only ones they'll be hurting are their attackers. 2) Your grammar sucks. 3) My "epeen", as you call it, does not get ruffled. Online posts do little to sway my attitude and never inflict rage. 4) Go drown some more cats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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