Youngstown - arrest for concealed carry - a pocketknife

[nurkvinny]

Kid is open carrying. Stopped by cops. Kid is cool.

 

Second cop finds a pocketknife, flips out, illegally takes phone, arrests kid.

 

[KillJoy]

Lawsuit.

 

KillJoy

[SpaceGhost]

Yep, Ohio State Supreme Court says a smartphone needs a warrant to be turned over to the police.

[944s2]

Wow we need to keep this open to see what happens.

[evan9381]

Did i miss something about a pocket knife in the video?

[evan9381]

Also, he says he has a place in OH but is technically a PA resident...so is he still able to open carry here? if I recall correctly, when I was getting ready to go to Pittsburgh to visit a buddy, I looked up about open carry in PA and you have to be a resident. granted there is a difference, because I was just going to visit for a few days, and this kid has a place here, but he did say that technically he is a PA resident

 

not defending with the cop did at all, just curious

[nurkvinny]

Did i miss something about a pocket knife in the video?

 

Sorry, I assumed too much from reading the Youtube replies.

 

Knife is not in vid.

 

"stopped for open carry of a handgun, and eventually charged with CCW of a pocketknife."

[evan9381]

Sorry, I assumed too much from reading the Youtube replies.

 

Knife is not in vid.

 

"stopped for open carry of a handgun, and eventually charged with CCW of a pocketknife."

 

nice ninja edit...I went back and listened again like "I still don't hear it"

[nurkvinny]

nice ninja edit...I went back and listened again like "I still don't hear it"

 

:fuckyeah:

[944s2]

I was under the impression that open carry was legal in the entire United States of America without question.

[sol740]

I was under the impression that open carry was legal in the entire United States of America without question.

 

Don't test that in Chicago, NY, or DC.

 

So much wrong in this video.

[copperhead]

"What's your name?"

 

"Turn off that phone. As a matter of fact I'm confiscating it!"

 

Someone is touchy. Sounds like they know they aren't in the right. Asking for proof of ownership of the gun (not required in Ohio, nor is there really any way to do that anyway), making sure the guy is who he says he is. Yeah, this deserves a lawsuit.

 

I was under the impression that open carry was legal in the entire United States of America without question.

 

Not even close. It's very touchy here even though its legal, and knife laws are even more sketchy.

[944s2]

double post.

[Ahmadi6490]

I was under the impression that open carry was legal in the entire United States of America without question.

 

It is but it's a huge gray area for the law enforcement, there's a lot of videos on youtube where people do it and purposely get caught...some of them are pretty funny

 

The excuse is inducing public panic :bangbang:

[Scotty2Hotty]

I was under the impression that open carry was legal in the entire United States of America without question.

 

Oklahoma just passed their open carry, but in Texas it's not legal do to so in public.

[El Karacho1647545492]

What I understand of pocketknife carry in Ohio is that you are allowed to conceal it if it's for the explicit purpose of transporting it, or if it's a knife for work (cutting boxes, etc), but not keeping it for self defense.

 

I find it odd that in Boston I actually was allowed to carry as many knives with blades under 3.5" as i wanted for self defense, but my sister needed a Class A gun permit for mace.

[Drewhop]

I think I only own 1 or 2 knives under 3.5 inches.

[Mojoe]

I find it odd that in Boston I actually was allowed to carry as many knives with blades under 3.5" as i wanted for self defense, but my sister needed a Class A gun permit for mace.

 

That's crazy. Good to know though.

 

As for the vid. I get carrying for protection. To have the time to be out and ready for an encounter like this is just not something I could see getting into. It's entertaining to see how it goes down, but everything that goes into it, it's just not worth it to me. If you are going to go to that extent, go get your CCW. Be in the system, as having been cleared to carry.

 

 

I don't want to see the right to open carry go away. I also don't see a high percentage of people out there that know someone is allowed to do it. So when they do, they call it in. Now you have an issue of someone calling in what is an emergency to them. The word needs to put out in a better way is all I'm saying. Parents, Teachers in schools, there has to be a better way to keep this right and not flex it as a way to educate.

[nurkvinny]

I agree about needing a better way to educate the general public. But, in the end, it isn't the open carrier's problem whether or not the public is ignorant about laws. I think an area for improvement is at the 911 operator level.

 

If some citizen is "scared", the operator could ask, "is the person's gun holstered?"... "is the person acting strangely?" There is an chance for LEO to educate someone. I also get that the operator figures better safe than sorry.

[2pointslow]

lol @ getting arrested for CCW knife.

[Ahmadi6490]

By the way I was talking about open carrying firearms not knives lol

[nurkvinny]

lol @ getting arrested for CCW knife.

 

 

... until it happens to you.

[nurkvinny]

Ha, the dude joined the site I got this story from earlier today. His initial post there for us:

 

You may have already seen the video I took (until my phone was confiscated) of my open carry stop on 8/30/12. I am starting this new thread to give you some background, and more details, for a more complete story: I’m 22 years old and go to college in Youngstown, Ohio. Since I am a Pennsylvania resident and can’t get an Ohio CCW license, I decided to study open carry. After reading a number of articles and forums, I decided I would open carry, but if I was stopped by the police I would try to cooperate, rather than challenge. That didn’t work so well.

 

On August 30th, 2012, at around 10:40 PM, I openly carried my Beretta 92A1 9mm with the intention of walking to a nearby McDonalds to get a late dinner. About 5 minutes into that walk, (10:45), I was detained by Officer Menichini of the Youngstown City Police department. I say "detained" because the officer briefly pulsed his overhead lights as he was driving behind me. Up until that moment, i assumed the car i heard behind me was just another person traveling on the roadway. The video picks up just after the officer gets out of his car.

 

 

Immediately following the end of this video, I was pushed against the police cruiser and searched, by a Det/Sgt John Payne of the Youngstown City Police (the officer who took my phone from me), who found that I was carrying a Gerber paraframe 4 inch, non serrated, stainless steel finish pocketknife, clipped to the outside of my belt, behind my left handed holster. Analysis of the audio i received as a result of my records request shows that i was off in my estimation of the total detainment time between the pulsed lights and the formal arrest. It was about 25 minutes later, (not my initial estimation of 40-45) at 11:09, after sitting in the back of a police car listening to a number of officers discuss what they could charge me with, that I was charged with CCW for the knife, and a jaywalking ticket, presumably to give the officer RAS for the stop and search. During the intervening time, the officers had called YSU officials (on a line that was not recorded), as well as someone in the police department, to discuss possible avenues of prosecution. Both of these calls occurred after i had been searched, and after i was put in the back of the car, without handcuffs, but also without being accused of a crime.

 

Being charged with a crime is not like in Law and Order. When you are charged with a crime, you’re handcuffed and tossed into the back of a police cruiser, with no seatbelt. You’re taken to jail and made to stand with your hands on a table while you are touched in inappropriate places by men you have never seen before. You’re tossed in a concrete room for hours, fingerprinted, photographed, and told you have mere hours to sleep and prepare for your arraignment. You’re told to plead with next to no counsel, and are asked, publicly, by a judge about your financial situation and ability to shell out thousands of dollars for an attorney. After all of this, you are told by that attorney to go home, to await the pre-trial. And then you wait.

 

Perhaps the cruelest part of all this is the waiting. It’s been two months so far, with my pictures online, my name plastered on the local news, and my record smeared with an arrest for a crime that I not only didn’t commit, but that the police had no RAS to stop me for in the first place. I’m still waiting, waiting and, frankly, hoping, that I made the right choice in how I acted during that initial encounter. My video, and the choices I made during it, are my only defense. It may be partly bitterness, and i apologize if so, but I can't help thinking that if I had acted differently, if I had flexed my rights, things may have turned out differently, and possibly for the better.

 

My hope is that my story will serve as a counter-argument to the assurances of others - that if you cooperate you will not be harassed further or charged, or that if you are, the charges will quickly be dropped. I also hope that those same people will be the first to step forward and assist me. As can be clearly seen, I was not only cooperative, but also reasonable and accommodating. I wasn’t committing a crime, I was hungry. I didn’t feel I had anything to hide, so I trusted the police to be as law-abiding as I was. But it’s clear that I was wrong to do so.

 

There have been two hearings so far – prior to the first, my court-appointed attorney asked me to waive time because she felt that the prosecutor would see that the charges against me were bogus – arising from police officers opposition to the act of open carry rather than actual law enforcement.. Unfortunately, that didn’t work, so at the hearing this past Tuesday, Oct. 23, I was asked to waive time again. This time my attorney told me that the prosecutor wanted to review my videotape. I asked her what my options were, and she said she could probably have it resolved quickly if I plead guilty to disorderly conduct. I didn’t feel that was an real option, and didn’t ask what would happen if I refused to waive time again, so I agreed.

 

Right now I feel like I’m being played with, that despite my cooperation I’m just the latest victim of police and prosecutors who either don’t know the law, or know it and use their protection (immunity) against those who do things they don’t like. I am working on getting the police report in a form that I can post, and also to get the radio transmissions to and from dispatch transcribed accurately.

 

I will be at work for the rest of the day, but will visit this page as often as i can in the coming days. In the meanwhile I’m open to all suggestions, and thank you.

[El Karacho1647545492]

Ha, the dude joined the site I got this story from earlier today. His initial post there for us:

 

You may have already seen the video I took (until my phone was confiscated) of my open carry stop on 8/30/12. I am starting this new thread to give you some background, and more details, for a more complete story: I’m 22 years old and go to college in Youngstown, Ohio. Since I am a Pennsylvania resident and can’t get an Ohio CCW license, I decided to study open carry. After reading a number of articles and forums, I decided I would open carry, but if I was stopped by the police I would try to cooperate, rather than challenge. That didn’t work so well.

 

On August 30th, 2012, at around 10:40 PM, I openly carried my Beretta 92A1 9mm with the intention of walking to a nearby McDonalds to get a late dinner. About 5 minutes into that walk, (10:45), I was detained by Officer Menichini of the Youngstown City Police department. I say "detained" because the officer briefly pulsed his overhead lights as he was driving behind me. Up until that moment, i assumed the car i heard behind me was just another person traveling on the roadway. The video picks up just after the officer gets out of his car.

 

 

Immediately following the end of this video, I was pushed against the police cruiser and searched, by a Det/Sgt John Payne of the Youngstown City Police (the officer who took my phone from me), who found that I was carrying a Gerber paraframe 4 inch, non serrated, stainless steel finish pocketknife, clipped to the outside of my belt, behind my left handed holster. Analysis of the audio i received as a result of my records request shows that i was off in my estimation of the total detainment time between the pulsed lights and the formal arrest. It was about 25 minutes later, (not my initial estimation of 40-45) at 11:09, after sitting in the back of a police car listening to a number of officers discuss what they could charge me with, that I was charged with CCW for the knife, and a jaywalking ticket, presumably to give the officer RAS for the stop and search. During the intervening time, the officers had called YSU officials (on a line that was not recorded), as well as someone in the police department, to discuss possible avenues of prosecution. Both of these calls occurred after i had been searched, and after i was put in the back of the car, without handcuffs, but also without being accused of a crime.

 

Being charged with a crime is not like in Law and Order. When you are charged with a crime, you’re handcuffed and tossed into the back of a police cruiser, with no seatbelt. You’re taken to jail and made to stand with your hands on a table while you are touched in inappropriate places by men you have never seen before. You’re tossed in a concrete room for hours, fingerprinted, photographed, and told you have mere hours to sleep and prepare for your arraignment. You’re told to plead with next to no counsel, and are asked, publicly, by a judge about your financial situation and ability to shell out thousands of dollars for an attorney. After all of this, you are told by that attorney to go home, to await the pre-trial. And then you wait.

 

Perhaps the cruelest part of all this is the waiting. It’s been two months so far, with my pictures online, my name plastered on the local news, and my record smeared with an arrest for a crime that I not only didn’t commit, but that the police had no RAS to stop me for in the first place. I’m still waiting, waiting and, frankly, hoping, that I made the right choice in how I acted during that initial encounter. My video, and the choices I made during it, are my only defense. It may be partly bitterness, and i apologize if so, but I can't help thinking that if I had acted differently, if I had flexed my rights, things may have turned out differently, and possibly for the better.

 

My hope is that my story will serve as a counter-argument to the assurances of others - that if you cooperate you will not be harassed further or charged, or that if you are, the charges will quickly be dropped. I also hope that those same people will be the first to step forward and assist me. As can be clearly seen, I was not only cooperative, but also reasonable and accommodating. I wasn’t committing a crime, I was hungry. I didn’t feel I had anything to hide, so I trusted the police to be as law-abiding as I was. But it’s clear that I was wrong to do so.

 

There have been two hearings so far – prior to the first, my court-appointed attorney asked me to waive time because she felt that the prosecutor would see that the charges against me were bogus – arising from police officers opposition to the act of open carry rather than actual law enforcement.. Unfortunately, that didn’t work, so at the hearing this past Tuesday, Oct. 23, I was asked to waive time again. This time my attorney told me that the prosecutor wanted to review my videotape. I asked her what my options were, and she said she could probably have it resolved quickly if I plead guilty to disorderly conduct. I didn’t feel that was an real option, and didn’t ask what would happen if I refused to waive time again, so I agreed.

 

Right now I feel like I’m being played with, that despite my cooperation I’m just the latest victim of police and prosecutors who either don’t know the law, or know it and use their protection (immunity) against those who do things they don’t like. I am working on getting the police report in a form that I can post, and also to get the radio transmissions to and from dispatch transcribed accurately.

 

I will be at work for the rest of the day, but will visit this page as often as i can in the coming days. In the meanwhile I’m open to all suggestions, and thank you.

 

VERY interested in updates, thanks for this!

[Mojoe]

Taking that charge means if he ever wants in the military, he will need a waiver approved. I'd be pretty heated if the rights I exercised and got a conviction for, were what kept me from wanting to defend those very rights.

 

I was really hoping to read a better outcome. I don't think this worked out for him at all. No one in the system stood to defend, or could prove enough to support his actions. Threatening or non-threatening, cooperative or not, now he has a record and a story about the system.

 

Thanks for the follow up info.