PGH STEELERS Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 Two things that should have been done. Either know your rights and exercise them or Plead the 5th and let your lawyer take care of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 Knife charges usually end up falling under city/local ordinances and those change every few miles. Open Carry is legal in Ohio via "not being illegal or mentioned in the ORC." This creates the mentioned "grey" area for law enforcement. They can attempt to charge you with a couple different things, but a good lawyer can get the charges dropped unless you did something really stupid. I conceal and open carry all the time. I mostly open carry if I'm with the wife and kids which reduces my threatening appearance;-) Most of the places I go allow open carry as a corporate policy and the greater columbus area police depts are pretty friendly about it. You run into trouble when you get a hick cop or town like cleveland heights, which is still bent out of shape over their gun ban being removed by the ohio supreme court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944s2 Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Ug this sucks for this guy and makes me sad about our current judicial system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurkvinny Posted October 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Cop to captain audio - Legally open carrying = probable cause to these guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Insanity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sol740 Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 I was under the impression that probable cause had to be related to something illegal, probable cause of a crime. Inciting a panic, menacing, disorderly conduct, all of those must be attached to something illegal. Sounds like he has a strong case with a decent lawyer, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but please cite the ORC, or case law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copperhead Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Cop to captain audio - Legally open carrying = probable cause to these guys. Shouldn't the NRA be stepping in to help with this kind of shit? Isn't this why they charge dues? Or is that just so they can lobby DC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sol740 Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 I've seen the Ohioccw thread about this, is there one on buckeye firearms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furloaf Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Interesting, I had thought that carrying a pocket knife was legal in Ohio, but apparently it is a misdemeanor. However... From: http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.12 2923.12 Carrying concealed weapons. (A) No person shall knowingly carry or have, concealed on the person’s person or concealed ready at hand, any of the following: (1) A deadly weapon other than a handgun; (2) A handgun other than a dangerous ordnance; (3) A dangerous ordnance. .... (D) It is an affirmative defense to a charge under division (A)(1) of this section of carrying or having control of a weapon other than a handgun and other than a dangerous ordnance that the actor was not otherwise prohibited by law from having the weapon and that any of the following applies: (1) The weapon was carried or kept ready at hand by the actor for defensive purposes while the actor was engaged in or was going to or from the actor’s lawful business or occupation, which business or occupation was of a character or was necessarily carried on in a manner or at a time or place as to render the actor particularly susceptible to criminal attack, such as would justify a prudent person in going armed. (2) The weapon was carried or kept ready at hand by the actor for defensive purposes while the actor was engaged in a lawful activity and had reasonable cause to fear a criminal attack upon the actor, a member of the actor’s family, or the actor’s home, such as would justify a prudent person in going armed. I think (D)(2) could clear anyone of the misdemeanor charge, as long as they were doing nothing else unlawful. My personal opinion is that I am always at risk of a criminal attack. That was for Ohio (state) law. Youngstown probably has a city ordinance or something. Again my opinion is that the city ordinance should be preempted by HB347. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2pointslow Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Here how about this. Don't conceal carry an illegal sized knife while practicing a very controversial right. What do you think you needed the knife for? Does McDonald's duct tape their burgers closed now? Were you going to use the knife as your first line of defense or 2nd? Might as well have just loaded up a book bag full of tanerite and taken it with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sol740 Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Here how about this. Don't conceal carry an illegal sized knife while practicing a very controversial right. What do you think you needed the knife for? Does McDonald's duct tape their burgers closed now? Were you going to use the knife as your first line of defense or 2nd? Might as well have just loaded up a book bag full of tanerite and taken it with you. I certainly see your point, although to my knowledge, size of the knife may or may not be illegal depending on what city you're in. Also I carry a knife daily as a tool which comes in handy for more everyday tasks than one can imagine. I do buy knives with less than 3 inch blades to avoid some moronic ordinances. His problem was that he cooperated beyond where he should have. Never give the police permission to search you, always question their actions when it pertains to your rights. I've seen quite a few open carry videos where the citizen had to point out that carrying was legal, and that the officer could not detain or search them without suspicion of a crime. This guy should have been more prepared for the possibility of ignorance on the part of the police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M0nk3y Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Follow this thread for all discussion and updates: http://www.ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=65251 Absolutely outrageous. PC my ass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 I was under the impression that probable cause had to be related to something illegal, probable cause of a crime. Inciting a panic, menacing, disorderly conduct, all of those must be attached to something illegal. Sounds like he has a strong case with a decent lawyer, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but please cite the ORC, or case law. You are correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M0nk3y Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 2917.31 Inducing panic. (A) No person shall cause the evacuation of any public place, or otherwise cause serious public inconvenience or alarm, by doing any of the following: (1) Initiating or circulating a report or warning of an alleged or impending fire, explosion, crime, or other catastrophe, knowing that such report or warning is false; (2) Threatening to commit any offense of violence; (3) Committing any offense, with reckless disregard of the likelihood that its commission will cause serious public inconvenience or alarm. http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2917.31 2917.11 Disorderly conduct. (A) No person shall recklessly cause inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm to another by doing any of the following: (1) Engaging in fighting, in threatening harm to persons or property, or in violent or turbulent behavior; (2) Making unreasonable noise or an offensively coarse utterance, gesture, or display or communicating unwarranted and grossly abusive language to any person; (3) Insulting, taunting, or challenging another, under circumstances in which that conduct is likely to provoke a violent response; (4) Hindering or preventing the movement of persons on a public street, road, highway, or right-of-way, or to, from, within, or upon public or private property, so as to interfere with the rights of others, and by any act that serves no lawful and reasonable purpose of the offender; http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2917.11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2pointslow Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 This guy should have been more prepared for the possibility of ignorance on the part of the police. This is what it boils down to, you can't plead ignorance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1fast5gp Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Ohio Knife Laws are mostly based on intent. It is vague, it is dumb, and technically you can find your self in court for carrying a butter knife if the cops thinks you are carrying it for self defense or use as a deadly weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2pointslow Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 It's our right to bare arms.. however it is also our right to a speedy trial and legal representation. You can be charged for almost anything, remember that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M0nk3y Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) It's our right to bare arms.. however it is also our right to a speedy trial and legal representation. You can be charged for almost anything, remember that. Probable cause to stop someone because he is openly carrying is unlawful. No crime was being committed, there was no MWAG call Edited October 30, 2012 by M0nk3y Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewhop Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Wow. I may need to get a new EDC knife. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Karacho1647545492 Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) Two things that should have been done. Either know your rights and exercise them or Plead the 5th and let your lawyer take care of it. The 5th amendment prevents you from testifying against yourself. Public places are not a courtroom, and you do, to some extent, have to comply with officers' questioning. There's a certain extent you have to answer, though I'm not sure where that ends. It always helps to answer questions like "where are you coming from and where are you going?" to help an officer ascertain whether or not you're a potential problem. edit; not saying you should always comply, just saying that there are times to stand your ground and times to give a little. Edited October 30, 2012 by El Karacho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sol740 Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 I'm sure he means 5th amendment as it relates to Miranda, 'right to remain silent', to avoid incriminating oneself which then in turn would be used in court against you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2pointslow Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Probable cause to stop someone because he is openly carrying is unlawful. He crime was being committed, there was no MWAG call :dumb: A cop can stop you for any reason at all. However in order to arrest there must be a law that's broken. Carrying a legal sized knife isn't illegal if you are carrying it as a tool. I would say its hard to argue the knife isn't for self defense when you're openly carrying a gun and concealing the knife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M0nk3y Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 :dumb: A cop can stop you for any reason at all. However in order to arrest there must be a law that's broken. Carrying a legal sized knife isn't illegal if you are carrying it as a tool. I would say its hard to argue the knife isn't for self defense when you're openly carrying a gun and concealing the knife. No they cant....it's called a Terry stop. Research that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2pointslow Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 No they cant....it's called a Terry stop. Research that The name derives from Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968),[2] in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that police may briefly detain a person who they reasonably suspect is involved in criminal activity;[3] the Court also held that police may do a limited search of the suspect’s outer garments for weapons if they have a reasonable and articulable suspicion that the person detained may be “armed and dangerous”.[4] When a search for weapons is authorized, the procedure is known as a “stop and frisk”. The cop can clearly see he is armed, the person in question could be a felon and possessing a gun illegally. Do you really think a cop is going to allow someone to walk down the street possessing an open firearm and not stop to ask questions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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