2wheels>4 Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 I'm saying that if the procedures he's being 'forced' to participate in are' date=' in fact, military protocol then he needs to shut up and do his duty.[/quote']Yeah, so the whole point of this thread is that it is NOT military protocol... Did you miss that part?? Why do I keep seeing bullshit about "that's SOP, he should get over it"? Allow me to set you straight here.. It is NOT legal for anyone to discriminate against you for your religion in the Military, specifically prohibited, in fact. SO it is not only morally wrong, but illegal to haze recruits regarding religion or lack thereof.Furthermore! It has been "SOP" over the years to discriminate against racial minorities, females and homosexuals too. So by your logic it is ok to beat up the darkies and fags while we rape the bitches because they should have known it was the life they signed up for, right?? Why don't we post a thread about incidents of rape against females on the rise in the Military and just tell all the enlisted women that they knew what they signed up for so shut up and bend over!!Go fucking choke on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangBruhY Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 I was wondering how many military people we have on here. I joined the military back in 97. I wouldn't call myself oldschool, but things back then were different than they are now.People say that they shouldn't be forced to stand there while a prayer is being said to "in God's name". Well, as far as the Air Force is concerned, "God's name" is whatever got you believe in. Not a certain God. Shoot, if you pray to the money god, then that's it. I have NEVER heard anyone force any kind of religion upon any military member. I think this guy is just trying to find a reason to complain.ALSO, when you join the military, you give up some of your rights. You cannot compare civilian life to military life. When I went to boot camp, I was yelled at, I was cursed at, I was made to do things that I didn't like or what to. But I did them, because those were the rules. That's what I signed up for. I didn't like the yelling and the making fun of. Why should this guy get away with hearing something he doesn't like and get away with it? Man up! The military isn't the Cub Scouts, it's the military. If your feelings get hurt over others praying, then maybe you should join http://www.redhatsociety.com/. If they were praying a muslim prayer, I would stand there, for respect of everyone around me.But then again, not everyone is as considerate as I am. Certainly not the guy who got upset about a prayer being said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robhawk Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 I was wondering how many military people we have on here. I joined the military back in 97. I wouldn't call myself oldschool, but things back then were different than they are now.People say that they shouldn't be forced to stand there while a prayer is being said to "in God's name". Well, as far as the Air Force is concerned, "God's name" is whatever got you believe in. Not a certain God. Shoot, if you pray to the money god, then that's it. I have NEVER heard anyone force any kind of religion upon any military member. I think this guy is just trying to find a reason to complain.ALSO, when you join the military, you give up some of your rights. You cannot compare civilian life to military life. When I went to boot camp, I was yelled at, I was cursed at, I was made to do things that I didn't like or what to. But I did them, because those were the rules. That's what I signed up for. I didn't like the yelling and the making fun of. Why should this guy get away with hearing something he doesn't like and get away with it? Man up! The military isn't the Cub Scouts, it's the military. If your feelings get hurt over others praying, then maybe you should join http://www.redhatsociety.com/. If they were praying a muslim prayer, I would stand there, for respect of everyone around me.But then again, not everyone is as considerate as I am. Certainly not the guy who got upset about a prayer being said.But if they dont believe in any God and asked to not be a part of the prayer, would you let them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangBruhY Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 If they didn't want to participate, they don't have to. Like I've said, I've NEVER seen anyone who was forced to participate in prayer or even being forced to stand together or whatever. As long as they don't leave the area, they are good.Be respectful to me and I'll be respectful to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DollFace Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Okay...srsly....nobody is forced to do anything religious in the military. If you attend, say a memorial for a former military member (as I did not too long ago), they may pray a prayer based off of the deceased's religion. Heck, they have a NASIC gospel choir here. If someone wanted to have a Muslim choir, they could do that. But, nobody is forced, held down, tied down, made in any such way to listen to ANYTHING religious in the military IN AMERICA. However, it is common curtousy not to just barge out. But, leaving quietly is by all means okay. Casper should srsly consider opening a religious forum for those that really want to get into it. BUT, I would like to add, I LOVE YOU ALL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted April 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 BUT, I would like to add, I LOVE YOU ALL! As long as it's YOUR love - not "Jesus love" through you. Love by proxy. Then, you're forcing love upon us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DollFace Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Well then considered it FORCED! I LOVE YOU MAN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWing'R Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 ...But, nobody is forced, held down, tied down, made in any such way to listen to ANYTHING religious in the military IN AMERICA. However, it is common curtousy not to just barge out. But, leaving quietly is by all means okay. Okay, with that being said, go back and read the original post in this thread. You apparently don't realize that that is exactly what happened to this guy. He was at an event that included prayer, he was uncomfortable, asked his superior to be allowed to leave and was told no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DollFace Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) Okay' date=' with that being said, go back and read the original post in this thread. You apparently don't realize that that is exactly what happened to this guy. He was at an event that included prayer, he was uncomfortable, asked his superior to be allowed to leave and was told no.[/quote']Okay, well, you obviously didn't READ my reply. He was told "no". STFW! Leave you pussy!EDIT: I mean srsly, they can't make him stay. They didn't hold him down. They said no, and he decided to listen when he knew he had the right to leave. If he would have grown some balls and left, and then they decided to demote him for disobeying and order, then he would have been able to take a real case to court. You gotta know the system.... Edited April 16, 2009 by DollFace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Okay, well, you obviously didn't READ my reply. He was told "no". STFW! Leave you pussy!EDIT: I mean srsly, they can't make him stay. They didn't hold him down. They said no, and he decided to listen when he knew he had the right to leave. If he would have grown some balls and left, and then they decided to demote him for disobeying and order, then he would have been able to take a real case to court. You gotta know the system....Disobey a direct order? girls got balls:D...or is ignorant to military life...either way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DollFace Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 When the "direct order" is an unlawful order it doesn't count? Now who is ignorant to military life? Not me numb nuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 ...harsh, easy with the numb nuts comment, even if it's true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DollFace Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 When the "direct order" is an unlawful order it doesn't count? Now who is ignorant to military life? Not me numb nuts Actually 'no you cannot leave' is not an unlawful order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DollFace Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 If the soldier explained why he wanted to leave to his superior and they said no, it IS an unlawful order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 regartless, disobeying direct order in the military, ballsy move...illegal or not....when a superior gives an order 99.99999% of the time, you WILL obey it...(sic) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAMBUSA Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 regartless, disobeying direct order in the military, ballsy move...illegal or not....when a superior gives an order 99.99999% of the time, you WILL obey it...(sic)I have no opinion on that as I didn't serve in the military. However, I think that it may have been a better move for the soldier to stand quietly and show respect for his fellow soldiers. Or did they stop teaching our military to show respect for others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted April 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) At what point does "respect for others" outrank "respect for your own values and morals"?Basically, when does "sucking it up" to precedence over "being true to yourself" - you can only suck it up for so long, just like if you were only true to yourself then you'd basically be ostracizing yourself from the general populace.... where on the scale do you balance between the two? Edited April 16, 2009 by JRMMiii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAMBUSA Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 At what point does "respect for others" outrank "respect for your own values and morals"?So if you go to a funeral and the officiating pastor starts to pray, are you just gonna walk out because it doesn't support your own "values and morals"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted April 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 It was a general question. Some people would walk out, others would sit and take it even if they don't agree, and yet others would wholeheartedly participate. People can choose whatever path they wish. The point being that some people have a higher tolerance or different point on the scale where their values outweigh their obligation to others' values. And, that option should always be there for them to have an out, if they want it.My personal behavior in that situation is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAMBUSA Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 You didn't answer my question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted April 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 You didn't answer my question.My personal behavior in that situation is irrelevant.Yes, I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAMBUSA Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Yes, I did.That wasn't anwering what I asked but whatever. Point is, show some respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 If the soldier explained why he wanted to leave to his superior and they said no, it IS an unlawful order.No it's not. It's only definitely unlawful if it's an order to commit an act would be considered criminal or something similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 I have no opinion on that as I didn't serve in the military. However, I think that it may have been a better move for the soldier to stand quietly and show respect for his fellow soldiers. Or did they stop teaching our military to show respect for others.Or maybe those fellow soldiers could show respect to others that may not believe, pray or worship in the same way they do or maybe even not at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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