Soldier complains Christian values forced upon him by the military

[DangBruhY]

If the soldier explained why he wanted to leave to his superior and they said no, it IS an unlawful order.

You have it all wrong. If it jeopardises safety, then it is an unlawful order. If a supervisor comes in and say to his troop, "You will sit in this chair for 2 hours and not get out." That is not an unlawful order. It might not be legit, but it is not an unlawful order. You don't know why the supervisor told him to sit there. The troop DOES have to sit there. If he gets out, HE is the one in trouble.

Now on the other hand, if the supervisor tells his troop to climb up a 200 ft crane, with no safety gear, the troop can refuse, because it is a safety issue and is also an unlawful order.

Get how it works now?

[magley64]

respect goes both ways. I don't tell you who or what to pray to on your time, you don't force me to be a part of it on mine.

if it's a government run program, it should be free of religion and religious practices. You have plenty of time to pray on your own.

[Disclaimer]

That wasn't anwering what I asked but whatever. Point is, show some respect.

Then I guess you'll need to rephrase the question. It's easy to say "show some respect" when it doesn't clash with your value system.

[SAMBUSA]

mmmkay, have fun with that.

[DollFace]

regartless, disobeying direct order in the military, ballsy move...illegal or not....when a superior gives an order 99.99999% of the time, you WILL obey it...(sic)

ummm...no, not if you got brains and know your rights. But, you were army right....SIR YES SIR!

[magley64]

ummm...no, not if you got brains and know your rights. But, you were army right....SIR YES SIR!

rights? you don't have "rights" in the military, you have orders...

rights are severely restricted...

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/27-1/Ch10.htm

[DollFace]

yep....army....I rest my case

[fusion]

I know at least most of those also apply to Air Force also which makes because it looks like they are based on directives handed down by the DoD and the UCMJ.

[DollFace]

I know at least most of those also apply to Air Force also which makes because it looks like they are based on directives handed down by the DoD and the UCMJ.

duh... the military are all under the same UCMJ

[fusion]

duh... the military are all under the same UCMJ

yeah that's the point. they are all also generally affected by the same DoD directives. I was just pointing out how stupid your Army comment was...

[magley64]

ummm...no, not if you got brains and know your rights. But, you were army right....SIR YES SIR!

uhh no...

I've never served in the military, I've always felt my talents and skills were better used elsewhere. If the military needs me, I'm sure they know where to find me.

[DollFace]

yeah that's the point. they are all also generally affected by the same DoD directives. I was just pointing out how stupid your Army comment was...

Ya...okay. First of all, we all pick on each other's services as said in other threads. Second, maybe you should just say outright that my comment was stupid instead of making yourself look stupid. Here's to you

[DollFace]

uhh no...

I've never served in the military, I've always felt my talents and skills were better used elsewhere. If the military needs me, I'm sure they know where to find me.

I am sure you are correct...please use your talents elsewhere.

[fusion]

Ya...okay. First of all, we all pick on each other's services as said in other threads. Second, maybe you should just say outright that my comment was stupid instead of making yourself look stupid. Here's to you

Yeah I was trying to be nice about it... I've often found the stupid are sensitive.

[DollFace]

Yeah I was trying to be nice about it... I've often found the stupid are sensitive.

Ha ha! Not me dear. I take what I dish, so you can give me all you got

[fusion]

Ha ha! Not me dear. I take what I dish, so you can give me all you got

[robhawk]

Orders are the foundation of our Military, all branches, and those who cannot follow them should not be in the Military. I have followed many blind orders, in Iraq none the less, while none were unlawful or put me in a position to questions why. Basic Military, Soldiers, Marines, Airmen, and Seamen, all must be able to follow orders without question, or people die.

I personally would have the prayers removed completely and would have let the young man step away if he asked.

[DollFace]

Orders are the foundation of our Military, all branches, and those who cannot follow them should not be in the Military. I have followed many blind orders, in Iraq none the less, while none were unlawful or put me in a position to questions why. Basic Military, Soldiers, Marines, Airmen, and Seamen, all must be able to follow orders without question, or people die.

I personally would have the prayers removed completely and would have let the young man step away if he asked.

I totally understand where you are coming from. Yes, orders are orders and should be followed, but not if you know they are violating your rights. If this dude told his superior "Hey I don't agree with this, i really need to leave" and they said no, then they are wrong. If he was just like "Hey, can I leave?", and they said no then they didn't know the whole situation and were not in the wrong. You really have to evaluate the situation in its intirety, disect it and get to the bottom of it. He could have left, but he had to have had to explain why. Not just ask to leave without a reason. Like, if the dude had to take a huge dump and he was prairie doggin and just asked if he could leave without giving a reason, and they said no, then it is on him when he craps his pants. But, if he says, hey I have to take a huge dump and I am about to diaria in my pants, and they say no, then they are held accountable when the dude craps all over the place. I must be the only one that sees it this way.

[cmoosego]

Am I under the wrong impression when I think military has different rules than civilian life?

Example.. Isn't it verboten to bounce a check' date=' have an affair, threaten another enlisted person... etc?? These things are commonly frowned upon in civilian life but they are punishable in military settings. Right?[/quote']

you are exactly right... and in most cases confinement is the least of your worries when charged in the military...

[jagr]

Is the Army about making their people happy and being all PC about it?

One thing I can tell you about the Corps is that I was pretty much a little over pissed and just under a rage for the entire time I served. As were all of my bretheren. I remember getting fucked with months on end. The last thing I thought about was were my rights being violated. It made me better, harder, faster, stronger( daft punk ). And I'm glad they did.

And if we went somewhere as a UNIT. We were a unit. NOBODY would dream of being excused for anything. Shit,We run to cadences that are prayers.

Anyone remember this ditty?

1. 2. 3 4. Every night we pray for war

5. 6 7. 8. Rape Kill and mutilate.

We would run all over base singing shit worse than that.

But I digress.

So I guess want it boils down to is that I could care less if pvt. PC got his feeling hurt cause soMebody prayed and he had to stand there. I hope one day in Trashcanastan he doesn't ever have to see a his buddies guts on the deck and feel slighted for having to see it. I hope he never hesitates on a shot while determining how he feels about killing someone that would skin his mother. he joined the ARMED FORCES people. He not on campus at Berkley. I don't know where I'm going with this anymore. I think that kid is going to have a hard life if shit like this bothers him. Rant off.

[Disclaimer]

Hey look, MOAR.

http://www.pubrecord.org/religion/565-military-deeply-involved-in-christian-reality-television-show.html

The Pentagon was involved in the production of a cable program that featured two so-called “extreme” missionaries embedded with a U.S. Army unit in Afghanistan trying to convert Muslims to Christianity.

The popular reality series, "Travel the Road," aired on the Trinity Broadcasting Network and featured Will Decker and Tim Scott, two so-called "extreme" missionaries who travel the globe to “preach the Gospel to the ends of the earth and encourage the church to be active in the Great Commission.”

The other cable program green-lit by the Pentagon is “God’s Soldier,” which aired in September on the Military Channel, and was filmed at Forward Operating Base McHenry in Hawijah, Iraq. It features an Army chaplain openly promoting fundamentalist Christianity to active-duty U.S. soldiers in Iraq in violation of the U.S. Constitution.

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF), a watchdog organization, amended a federal lawsuit it filed against the Department of Defense last year, currently in federal District Court in Kansas City, Kansas to “include these despicable unconstitutional promotions of fundamentalist Christianity in the combat zones of Iraq and Afghanistan,” said MRFF founder and president Mikey Weinstein.

Part of the second season of “Travel the Road” was filmed on location in Afghanistan and aired in April 2006, where Decker and Scott were embedded with the Army, and shows numerous scenes of the men accompanying U.S. Army soldiers on patrol. The missionaries are also filmed evangelizing the local Afghans by distributing New Testaments to them in their native Darri language.

In one scene, an Army Chaplain named Capt. Brad Hanna of the Oklahoma National Guard, talks about the possibility of a “revival” in Afghanistan and says he frequently speaks to Afghans about converting to Christianity. Hanna was made a full-time support chaplain for the Oklahoma National Guard after he returned from Afghanistan.

Additionally, Decker and Scott prominently cite SSgt. Sheldon Hoyt, who was stationed in Afghanistan with the Oklahoma National Guard’s 45th Brigade Combat Team, 1st Battalion, 179th Infantry Regiment, as playing a hands-on role in helping the missionaries facilitate their proselytizing as opposed to simply being a tour guide of sorts.

In sanctioning Decker and Scott’s work, the Pentagon appears to have committed numerous constitutional violations as well as breached military regulations such as United States Central Command's General Order 1-A, which strictly prohibits any proselytization in the Middle Eastern theater of operations.

Last year, U.S. military personnel launched a major initiative to convert thousands of Iraqi citizens to Christianity also by distributing Bibles and other fundamentalist Christian literature translated into Arabic to Iraqi Muslims.

An article published on the website of Mission Network News reported that Bible Pathway Ministries, a fundamentalist Christian organization, disclosed that the organization provided thousands of a special military edition of its Daily Devotional Bible study book to members of the 101st Airborne Division of Fort Campbell, Kentucky, currently stationed in Iraq.

Continued...

[RC51 John]

Ugh, not more.

[Disclaimer]

Just to stir the pot before I go to bed. I bolded the quote that made me lulz

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-military-weapons-inscribed-secret-jesus-bible-codes/story?id=9575794

Pentagon Supplier for Rifle Sights Says It Has 'Always' Added New Testament References

By JOSEPH RHEE, TAHMAN BRADLEY and BRIAN ROSS

Jan. 18, 2010 —

Coded references to New Testament Bible passages about Jesus Christ are inscribed on high-powered rifle sights provided to the United States military by a Michigan company, an ABC News investigation has found.

The sights are used by U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and in the training of Iraqi and Afghan soldiers. The maker of the sights, Trijicon, has a $660 million multi-year contract to provide up to 800,000 sights to the Marine Corps, and additional contracts to provide sights to the U.S. Army.

U.S. military rules specifically prohibit the proselytizing of any religion in Iraq or Afghanistan and were drawn up in order to prevent criticism that the U.S. was embarked on a religious "Crusade" in its war against al Qaeda and Iraqi insurgents.

One of the citations on the gun sights, 2COR4:6, is an apparent reference to Second Corinthians 4:6 of the New Testament, which reads: "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

Other references include citations from the books of Revelation, Matthew and John dealing with Jesus as "the light of the world." John 8:12, referred to on the gun sights as JN8:12, reads, "Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

Trijicon confirmed to ABCNews.com that it adds the biblical codes to the sights sold to the U.S. military. Tom Munson, director of sales and marketing for Trijicon, which is based in Wixom, Michigan, said the inscriptions "have always been there" and said there was nothing wrong or illegal with adding them. Munson said the issue was being raised by a group that is "not Christian." The company has said the practice began under its founder, Glyn Bindon, a devout Christian from South Africa who was killed in a 2003 plane crash.

'It violates the Constitution'

The company's vision is described on its Web site: "Guided by our values, we endeavor to have our products used wherever precision aiming solutions are required to protect individual freedom."

"We believe that America is great when its people are good," says the Web site. "This goodness has been based on Biblical standards throughout our history, and we will strive to follow those morals."

Spokespeople for the U.S. Army and the Marine Corps both said their services were unaware of the biblical markings. They said officials were discussing what steps, if any, to take in the wake of the ABCNews.com report. It is not known how many Trijicon sights are currently in use by the U.S. military.

The biblical references appear in the same type font and size as the model numbers on the company's Advanced Combat Optical Guides, called the ACOG.

A photo on a Department of Defense Web site shows Iraqi soldiers being trained by U.S. troops with a rifle equipped with the bible-coded sights.

"It's wrong, it violates the Constitution, it violates a number of federal laws," said Michael "Mikey" Weinstein of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, an advocacy group that seeks to preserve the separation of church and state in the military.

'Firearms of Jesus Christ'

"It allows the Mujahedeen, the Taliban, al Qaeda and the insurrectionists and jihadists to claim they're being shot by Jesus rifles," he said.

Weinstein, an attorney and former Air Force officer, said many members of his group who currently serve in the military have complained about the markings on the sights. He also claims they've told him that commanders have referred to weapons with the sights as "spiritually transformed firearm of Jesus Christ."

He said coded biblical inscriptions play into the hands of "those who are calling this a Crusade."

According to a government contracting watchdog group, fedspending.org, Trijicon had more than $100 million in government contracts in fiscal year 2008. The Michigan company won a $33 million Pentagon contract in July, 2009 for a new machine gun optic, according to Defense Industry Daily. The company's earnings from the U.S. military jumped significantly after 2005, when it won a $660 million long-term contract to supply the Marine Corps with sights.

"This is probably the best example of violation of the separation of church and state in this country," said Weinstein. "It's literally pushing fundamentalist Christianity at the point of a gun against the people that we're fighting. We're emboldening an enemy."

[max power]

Is the Army about making their people happy and being all PC about it?

One thing I can tell you about the Corps is that I was pretty much a little over pissed and just under a rage for the entire time I served. As were all of my bretheren. I remember getting fucked with months on end. The last thing I thought about was were my rights being violated. It made me better, harder, faster, stronger( daft punk ). And I'm glad they did.

And if we went somewhere as a UNIT. We were a unit. NOBODY would dream of being excused for anything. Shit,We run to cadences that are prayers.

Anyone remember this ditty?

1. 2. 3 4. Every night we pray for war

5. 6 7. 8. Rape Kill and mutilate.

We would run all over base singing shit worse than that.

But I digress.

So I guess want it boils down to is that I could care less if pvt. PC got his feeling hurt cause soMebody prayed and he had to stand there. I hope one day in Trashcanastan he doesn't ever have to see a his buddies guts on the deck and feel slighted for having to see it. I hope he never hesitates on a shot while determining how he feels about killing someone that would skin his mother. he joined the ARMED FORCES people. He not on campus at Berkley. I don't know where I'm going with this anymore. I think that kid is going to have a hard life if shit like this bothers him. Rant off.

+1000 WTF? When you sign your ass over to the United States Armed Forces, your ass no longer has rights.

[gixxie750]

yea tax army churches too!!! ha ha ha