99StockGT Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 Working through the build of another toy, currently under the radar and wanted to reach out to all of you who have built a beast. At what point does the $$$ and HPs/TQs outweigh the fun factor? Where do you say stop, that's enough no more powwa? In something with a 2800 or so curb weight, where does fun/enjoyable end and barely streetable/nightmare begin? Origionally this little project was just a fun kick around car(still top secret don't ask) however now that we've begun tearing the engine down and doing some refreshing...other ideas are popping into my head. So, talk me down of the fiscal cliff of more $$$ more powwa...or help me leak to my turbocharged doom. :gabe: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POS VETT Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 This reminds me of an adage Enough horsepower is defined as "if you can lay down two perfect black patches between the exit of a corner to the entrance of the next". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berto Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 I'm pretty content with 330 rwhp in my RX7. At one point I was looking at a cam, intake, and long tubes which I was hoping would get me around 400 rwhp in 2800 lb car. I would be pretty darn content with that. I like that the car is very very streetable and isn't breaking all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99StockGT Posted May 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 I guess you also have to factor in turbo lag, so below 3k or so you don't have that extra kick in the pants and it will behave better. Isn't breaking all the time sounds nice, I have enough toys that require constant parts replacement (upgrades). When out rolling around town and needing to merge lanes though, is 300 enough? 350? 400? 700? Is the $1000 to get from 350-400 worth it in fun factor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigOxley Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 Maybe 99-01 Subaru 2.5rs swapped with a wrx turbo engine? Good clean swaps purchased for 10k or less. Swap it yourself for less. Send it out for wiring. Tuning can get you 300whp and weight is around 2900lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99StockGT Posted May 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 Oh I already have the car the question is more along the lines of how far to take it before I ruin the "fun". I'm not wanting a full out drag car, I also don't want to be buying slicks just to keep it in a straight line. I DO however want something that will get up and roll with anything that's rocking Streetglows and not seem like a pig, may see the occassional track usage as well. As a side note there is definitely a HUGE seat of the pants difference in 300WPH on an AWD platform and 300WPH on a RWD. I'll be doing the RWD tyvm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berto Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 I guess you also have to factor in turbo lag, so below 3k or so you don't have that extra kick in the pants and it will behave better. Isn't breaking all the time sounds nice, I have enough toys that require constant parts replacement (upgrades). When out rolling around town and needing to merge lanes though, is 300 enough? 350? 400? 700? Is the $1000 to get from 350-400 worth it in fun factor? You're right on that. I have 300 ft-lbs at 2500 rpm. if it were a turbo car then my opinion may be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudiOn19s Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 For me....anything that handles well and has approx. 10:1 ratio as far as power to weight is "good enough". The M3 was right at 10:1 GT3 is closer to 9:1 The lighter the better..at 2800 it should be pretty easy to get a really fun car if it's in the 300hp neighborhood. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linn1647545492 Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 Oh I already have the car the question is more along the lines of how far to take it before I ruin the "fun". I'm not wanting a full out drag car, I also don't want to be buying slicks just to keep it in a straight line. I DO however want something that will get up and roll with anything that's rocking Streetglows and not seem like a pig, may see the occassional track usage as well. As a side note there is definitely a HUGE seat of the pants difference in 300WPH on an AWD platform and 300WPH on a RWD. I'll be doing the RWD tyvm When I went from a bolt-on f-body to a H/C car it was well worth it and I picked up 110 WHP. Once the built motor was in, the car lost a lot of the fun factor due to the size of the cam. It's no longer a car that is easy to drive. I should have just gone turbo from day one and the car would have kept it's fun factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Bastard Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 My car should be right around 3000lbs and I'm shooting for something between 400-500hp. The motor should be reliable at that level, other things would start breaking if I go to far past that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojoe Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 I'm pretty content with 330 rwhp in my RX7. At one point I was looking at a cam, intake, and long tubes which I was hoping would get me around 400 rwhp in 2800 lb car. I would be pretty darn content with that. I like that the car is very very streetable and isn't breaking all the time. This. I'm somewhere in that power range. My buddy dropped $45k+ and just got a 2010 CTS-V. He had a 2005 before, with bolt ons. Point being, he just dropped a ton of $ and it's right where my FD is. And he wants to It's plenty of power. I have been content with this set up for a couple years and just can't justify putting more $ into making it faster. I guess it comes down to what your ability to drive is. I have some game, but I know I'm about at what I'm comfortable and capable of handling. If you have a ton of seat time in a high power car, the power gets dull, I guess. Then You want to push more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99StockGT Posted May 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 Andy good point on the powwa to weight ratio, you numbers guys always make such sense. The only issue I have with things in the turbo arena is .. Boost doesn't come on fully till 3500 or so, peaking around lets say 330HP. Pre boost you are rolling around somewhere in the range of 140-180. Is that enough or do you look into some more motor power to get you through till the whooosh kicks in? I don't want to be driving around in 3rd gear @3500 all day just incase I need to switch lanes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 This reminds me of an adage Enough horsepower is defined as "if you can lay down two perfect black patches between the exit of a corner to the entrance of the next". I do love this saying I have my own adage, which is that a slow car that runs is infinitely more enjoyable than a fast car on jackstands in the garage. I'd say a car has too much power when it ends up under the knife more often than you'd like it to. Where that point is varies from person to person, so it's a judgement call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStowers023 Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 My WS6 made 451whp on motor and with a 125 on top of that, I thought it was perfect. My theory was, nobody was going to beat me unless they dumped a lot more money into their car than I did mine, and I was okay with that. Edit : or if they had a racecar foxbody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littleguy Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 My car is right around 2800lbs and it makes 447whp, pretty much perfect for fun if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprabst Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 The only problem with fun factor is that we could tell you a range from 300-500whp and you would be happy at any level with a 2800lb car.The only bad news is that once you get used to whatever power you make your going to want more and more like everyone else. So i would start at a lower level of power around 300-350whp then go up from there when you get used to it =P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limitedslip7 Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 I had 530whp in my 2500lb 2nd gen RX7 and it was fun, whupped all kinds of ass, and still hooked up fairly well as long as the tires/street were warm. Still could've used another 100hp though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 For me....anything that handles well and has approx. 10:1 ratio as far as power to weight is "good enough". The M3 was right at 10:1 GT3 is closer to 9:1 Crank or wheel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco-REX Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 What are you looking to do with the car? Mexico? Trails? AutoX? Mid-Ohio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustlestiltskin Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 The only problem with fun factor is that we could tell you a range from 300-500whp and you would be happy at any level with a 2800lb car.The only bad news is that once you get used to whatever power you make your going to want more and more like everyone else. So i would start at a lower level of power around 300-350whp then go up from there when you get used to it =P Bingo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirks5oh Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 i've ruined a few cars by making them not fun to drive, with too many mods. its not a fun experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordell Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 Just make it faster then it is now, and then faster, just choose the right way to get there and when you run short of money, stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99StockGT Posted May 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 The only problem with fun factor is that we could tell you a range from 300-500whp and you would be happy at any level with a 2800lb car.The only bad news is that once you get used to whatever power you make your going to want more and more like everyone else. So i would start at a lower level of power around 300-350whp then go up from there when you get used to it =P To qualify my previous questions, I already have other cars making various levels of power from mild to wild so I certainly understand this. I'm also of the generation that every time I brake something it becomes an excuse to upgrade so I'm highly familiar with that. Most all of my other rides have all been/are V8s or high displacement 6s with quick spooling turbos. As far as I'm concerned once this thing is built once I'm not going to be ripping it apart again for a while so just want to get this done right the first time. Of course, if something DOES brake... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littleguy Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 i've ruined a few cars by making them not fun to drive, with too many mods. its not a fun experience. I've worried about this at times. For me, the idea of making more power in the RX-7 sounds cool, but once I'm just out there roasting tires not really being able to use the power it would suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99StockGT Posted May 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 i've ruined a few cars by making them not fun to drive, with too many mods. its not a fun experience. My concern exactly. I've thrown big money after projects in the past only to get it done and hate driving it. I'm not interested in driving something with an all or nothing clutch on the street that wants to yank my face off every time I come off a stop light. This thing is going to get maybe 4k max milage a year during the warm summer nights then get put back in storage. MIGHT do some tracking with it eventually though I'll have to figure out another cooling solution before I go that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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