Advice on Cayenne GTS?

[ec_E92]

Looking for new car for Mrs. ec_E92 and we're all over the place. Actually she has her ideas and I veto most of them. We've found common ground on 08-10 Cayenne GTS 6MT's so I can tow track car and actually enjoy driving her rig on winter trips. Anyone have any input on these?

 

Also in the mix are slightly more budget conscious options:

Audi Q5 (3.2 or 2.0T, not bad but 4400# towing is on the low limit)

Audi B7 RS4 (wild card as a friend is selling hers and I know full service history and I am fully aware of DI carbon buildup and DRC issues)

Audi B8 S4 (more expensive than RS4 and I'd rather have RS4 - I think)

 

Can you tell she likes Audi's?? If no SUV must be RWD/AWD and MT and E90 M3 would just be a ridiculous stable.

 

Right now she's driving my E92 M3 and I think she's balking so she can keep driving it. While I rattle my bones in my E36 M3 commuting every day.

[Robochan]

This is the type of problem i wish to have.

[TTQ B4U]

Looking for new car for Mrs. ec_E92 and we're all over the place. Actually she has her ideas and I veto most of them. We've found common ground on 08-10 Cayenne GTS 6MT's so I can tow track car and actually enjoy driving her rig on winter trips. Anyone have any input on these?

 

I think formulamatt on here has one. I can text him to look you up and provide insight if you don't hear anything in a couple days.

[zeitgeist57]

Matt doesn't have a GTS...

 

...and he'd tell you the joys of coolant crossover pipes that like to break. :no:

 

 

I think the GTS's are awesome SUV's, but I'd be a little nervous finding a good example in the aftermarket. The 6-speeds are pretty rare.

[JaSSon]

Silly question: Why not just let her get what she wants, and pick up an older used truck for towing?

[POS VETT]

Silly question is silly, moving on.

[AudiOn19s]

They fixed the coolant pipe problems with the 08+ Cayenne so it's not a worry in the ones you are looking at.

 

the 09-10 got the upgraded PCM electronics which in my opinion are well worth the extra coin, much better nav and more importantly factory integrated USB / IPOD adapters and I believe blutooth as well.

 

GTS doesn't have a TON of options because most of them are included in the package already. Panoramic roof is nice but it tends to squeek.

 

We almost bought a 6 speed '09 GTS this past summer for exactly what you intend to us it for. I think it would have been a perfect solution for us but we went the complete opposite direction instead. First Gear is STUPID short in the 6-speed. Perfect for towing, dumb around town. You will literally find yourself using 2nd to start off quite a bit first is soo short. 6th is geared well for the freeway thought. The 6-speed wasn't a bit difficult to drive at all ours was also going to be a driver for my wife.

 

the 21" wheels for the GTS are great looking but 20" and 22" rubber are both cheaper. Keep that in mind.

 

'08+ still have the same cardan (drive) shaft issues. It's a 2 piece shaft and the bearing in the middle joint goes bad. When you drive it go slow and then stop on the gas. if it sounds like something hits the floor that bearing needs replaced. The nice thing is up until a couple of years ago you had to replace the whole drive shaft but there are solutions out there now to just replace the bearing.

 

Other than that they are a pretty robust platform. I know several guys in PCA that tow with their GTS 6-speeds and love them to death and a couple of them are closing in on 200k miles with very few issues.

[Chief8one]

The more I read on CR the more I feel the need for a career change.

[iwashmycar]

ditto.

[Littleguy]

Why does reading this thread make me want a Porsche SUV!?!?

[ec_E92]

Thanks for the input guys, I've researched on Rennlist and they seem fairly robust. The GTS seems like a great value and I had no idea they were so obtainable (<50k miles for $40-50k). 6MT's are pretty rare but check so many boxes and I have flexibility to wait for the right one.

 

Andy, still happy with the 997TT? I actually went back and looked at your decision thread.

 

If my wife had freedom to choose we'd be so far underwater because she would change her mind every 18 months hence the fact I hold veto power.

[AudiOn19s]

 

Andy, still happy with the 997TT? I actually went back and looked at your decision thread.

 

Yes, I think the GTS would have served us well too but I'm happy with the direction we went.

[coltboostin]

Eric/Andy, Semi related but do either of you have children? Plan on having children? I only ask because I am looking at the Euro 2 door sports options next year, and struggle if I really need 4 doors. The V is a great DD, but I drove a buddies R8, and it was just not comparable.

[Jewtoys]

Eric/Andy, Semi related but do either of you have children? Plan on having children? I only ask because I am looking at the Euro 2 door sports options next year, and struggle if I really need 4 doors. The V is a great DD, but I drove a buddies R8, and it was just not comparable.

 

10k ctsv and a 100k r8, obviously not comparable

 

The r8 is an excellent all around car, so much better than the gallardo.

 

The one person I know who had one of these trucks had countless issues

[SRTurbo04]

Best friends gramps has had one for years with no issues its his daily in San diego traffic and his weekend car in the mountains with the miata club he runs with.

[coltboostin]

10k ctsv and a 100k r8, obviously not comparable

 

The r8 is an excellent all around car, so much better than the gallardo.

 

The one person I know who had one of these trucks had countless issues

 

It's all relative my friend.

 

 

Price is what you pay, value is what you get. I am not sure if the value of a 2 door pseudo supercar trumps the need for 4 doors; hence why I asked if its a part of their decision making or on their radar.

[Trouble Maker]

How much do you think you would need to tow? Used 2014 Audi SQ5 is touching hi 50s and it's a great car. ZF 8hp trans (really good trans) with a tuned up s4 engine and brakes that could stop a semi. Unfortunately it only tows 4200#s. I'm not sure what the limiting factor but it surely isn't grunt or brakes.

[ec_E92]

Eric/Andy, Semi related but do either of you have children? Plan on having children? I only ask because I am looking at the Euro 2 door sports options next year, and struggle if I really need 4 doors. The V is a great DD, but I drove a buddies R8, and it was just not comparable.

 

I've been fortunate enough to have 5+ years of dual-income, no kid, wedded bliss. And I feel my time is running out hence the tough choice to shake up the fleet for something more "practical". But if no kids.... coupe it up! You have the rest of your life to drive 4 doors. Ze Germans do a great job of maximizing cargo space with fold down seats, I renovated a house with my M3 as my only vehicle. I just keep a few beach towels in the trunk to protect the seats.

 

Now 2 doors/2 seats is another matter, that is a much bigger commitment than a coupe with a backseat.

 

At some point I'll want/need a 4-door car with kids and don't want to let the E92 M3 go. I would eventually inherit the RS4 and then she would get something newer several years down the road. Ultimate combo for me but doesn't solve the lack of a tow vehicle. Maybe towing isn't necessary as I currently drive my car to the track (sometimes up to 6 hours away) but it is something I'd like to have in my toolbelt. Especially as my skill is starting to warrant stickier tires and less interior pieces. And driving 12 hours round trip for a track weekend means something nicer than a cheap beater truck.

 

Cayenne GTS lets me have tow vehicle right away, a car for her that I'll actually WANT to drive on road trips, and could inherit in a few years allowing her to get a newer A4/S4.

 

Q5 is kind of a stop-gap but most budget conscious. Not a great tow vehicle and not super fun to drive. And then in a couple years I'd want to replace the Q5 with a bigger SUV and still not have a 4-door car for me.

 

All this and trying to stay responsible with the budget.

[ec_E92]

How much do you think you would need to tow? Used 2014 Audi SQ5 is touching hi 50s and it's a great car. ZF 8hp trans (really good trans) with a tuned up s4 engine and brakes that could stop a semi. Unfortunately it only tows 4200#s. I'm not sure what the limiting factor but it surely isn't grunt or brakes.

 

Jesse,

 

SQ5 is intriguing but the F I'm going to spend fitty on a Q5.

 

The earlier 3.2 and 2.0T are both rated at 4400# which puts me right at the limit with a sub 3000# car and an aluminum trailer (that I don't own either).

[AudiOn19s]

Eric/Andy, Semi related but do either of you have children? Plan on having children? I only ask because I am looking at the Euro 2 door sports options next year, and struggle if I really need 4 doors. The V is a great DD, but I drove a buddies R8, and it was just not comparable.

 

No kids, no plans to have kids, not sure we're even capable after Yasmin's chemo but to be honest they were never in the plans anyhow.

 

You can put a child seat in the front of an R8. I'm sure there's some massive debate on if it's proper to do that but it's an option, I've seen it before on the R8 forums. Heck I've seen forward facing child seats in the front of GT3's in the european fixed back Recaro's before. I agree with Eric that you'd be better with a 2 door coupe that has a back seat but we're all getting older so f'it and if you've got the means get something that excites you to drive!

 

Eric - forget the Q5, you need more towing capacity than that. Even with an aluminum trailer between the car and trailer and your tools you'll be at absolute max towing capacity for the thing which is not a good idea for long haul trips. That's what disappointed me about the Macan was it was initially supposed to have like a 5500-5600 lb capacity which made it pretty attractive to me and when they lowered it to under 5k it was a no go for me any longer. Cayenne / Q7 can tow 7700...there's not even a towing package you have to add for it to tow just add the hitch and go if the vehicle doesn't already have one....or I've got a nice GMC pickup I'll sell you that will tow > 10k lbs and has all the nice fancy equipment of the cayenne, it's just not quite the same driving experience when not towing

[Trouble Maker]

SQ5 is intriguing but the F I'm going to spend fitty on a Q5.

 

The earlier 3.2 and 2.0T are both rated at 4400# which puts me right at the limit with a sub 3000# car and an aluminum trailer (that I don't own either).

 

It's really a shame the SQ5 haven't been out for a few more years to come down in price. It's an S4 in an SUV size, it's really a hoot to drive despite it being AT. The 8 AT in that car is a great transmission and combined with what they do on engine control side to make the shifts as quick as possible, it's as close as you will get to a DCT with an AT, but with the benefits in other areas of an AT. I might even say that I like that engine with the 8HP better than with the 7DCT in the S4 (which is supposed to be better than the 6MT, but I've not driven that combo).

 

It's also a bummer they didn't upgrade a few other things somewhere in the chassis to tow more. Since every engine is rated at 4400#s, I'm sure the limit is somewhere other than the engine and brakes.

[coltboostin]

No kids, no plans to have kids, not sure we're even capable after Yasmin's chemo but to be honest they were never in the plans anyhow.

 

You can put a child seat in the front of an R8. I'm sure there's some massive debate on if it's proper to do that but it's an option, I've seen it before on the R8 forums. Heck I've seen forward facing child seats in the front of GT3's in the european fixed back Recaro's before. I agree with Eric that you'd be better with a 2 door coupe that has a back seat but we're all getting older so f'it and if you've got the means get something that excites you to drive!

 

 

Appreciate your input. If I went that route, I would not be hauling the kid anywhere until he was out of a seat all together. I don't think its unsafe to put a child seat in front, I just think its ridiculous. At the same time, 95% we are going anywhere as a family, we take the Rav anyhow. Its a strong argument either way.

[FormulaMatt]

Matt doesn't have a GTS...

 

...and he'd tell you the joys of coolant crossover pipes that like to break. :no:

 

 

I think the GTS's are awesome SUV's, but I'd be a little nervous finding a good example in the aftermarket. The 6-speeds are pretty rare.

 

Correct, no GTS here...I could not find one quite to my liking. Most of the ones of my generation have the horrible 2 tone interior. So I settled on the Turbo version.

 

Also, yes, the pipes suck balls to do, but luckily it only happens once. As Andy states below, the second gen Cayenne's do not suffer this fate as I did.

 

 

They fixed the coolant pipe problems with the 08+ Cayenne so it's not a worry in the ones you are looking at.

 

the 09-10 got the upgraded PCM electronics which in my opinion are well worth the extra coin, much better nav and more importantly factory integrated USB / IPOD adapters and I believe blutooth as well.

 

GTS doesn't have a TON of options because most of them are included in the package already. Panoramic roof is nice but it tends to squeek.

 

We almost bought a 6 speed '09 GTS this past summer for exactly what you intend to us it for. I think it would have been a perfect solution for us but we went the complete opposite direction instead. First Gear is STUPID short in the 6-speed. Perfect for towing, dumb around town. You will literally find yourself using 2nd to start off quite a bit first is soo short. 6th is geared well for the freeway thought. The 6-speed wasn't a bit difficult to drive at all ours was also going to be a driver for my wife.

 

the 21" wheels for the GTS are great looking but 20" and 22" rubber are both cheaper. Keep that in mind.

 

'08+ still have the same cardan (drive) shaft issues. It's a 2 piece shaft and the bearing in the middle joint goes bad. When you drive it go slow and then stop on the gas. if it sounds like something hits the floor that bearing needs replaced. The nice thing is up until a couple of years ago you had to replace the whole drive shaft but there are solutions out there now to just replace the bearing.

 

Other than that they are a pretty robust platform. I know several guys in PCA that tow with their GTS 6-speeds and love them to death and a couple of them are closing in on 200k miles with very few issues.

 

I highlighted 2 things Andy listed that my Cayenne suffered from. Overall, the 1st gen Cayenne is known for 4 main problems; the coolant pipes, the air pump for suspension, carrier bearing on cardan shaft, and the 4-5 solenoids in the valve body of the trans.

 

The pipes I did myself. Porsche books it out at 12 hours labor and it took me about 13.5 while drinking and taking my time. Horrible pain in the ass as they are under the intake manifold and brittle plastic that doesn't want to come out.

 

The cardan shaft issue also happened to me. Best I ever heard it described was on rennslist as tiny midgets in or under your console with little hammers tapping. I replaced my drive shaft with one from vertex and also upgraded the bearing mount to their new style that will not fail again. I do seem to have slightly firmer shifts, but nothing obnoxious.

 

One piece of advice, if you ever need a part, see if there is a cross reference for a VW part. Case in point, my air pump went bad for my air suspension I called Porsche and it was close to or just over 200. I found the OE VW part for 10. Not a typo. 20 minute fix.

 

The valve body was done upon buying the car. When this goes bad it happens under heavy load when accelerating and shifting from 5th to 4th. It feels like the trans is falling out of the car.

 

I believe they fixed these issues I have had with mine in the new ones. Overall, I LOVE my Cayenne and can only imagine the 2nd gen to be even better and more enjoyable. In a few years I will probably step up to one of them.

 

Good luck!

[ec_E92]

Correct, no GTS here...I could not find one quite to my liking. Most of the ones of my generation have the horrible 2 tone interior. So I settled on the Turbo version.

 

Also, yes, the pipes suck balls to do, but luckily it only happens once. As Andy states below, the second gen Cayenne's do not suffer this fate as I did.

 

 

 

 

I highlighted 2 things Andy listed that my Cayenne suffered from. Overall, the 1st gen Cayenne is known for 4 main problems; the coolant pipes, the air pump for suspension, carrier bearing on cardan shaft, and the 4-5 solenoids in the valve body of the trans.

 

The pipes I did myself. Porsche books it out at 12 hours labor and it took me about 13.5 while drinking and taking my time. Horrible pain in the ass as they are under the intake manifold and brittle plastic that doesn't want to come out.

 

The cardan shaft issue also happened to me. Best I ever heard it described was on rennslist as tiny midgets in or under your console with little hammers tapping. I replaced my drive shaft with one from vertex and also upgraded the bearing mount to their new style that will not fail again. I do seem to have slightly firmer shifts, but nothing obnoxious.

 

One piece of advice, if you ever need a part, see if there is a cross reference for a VW part. Case in point, my air pump went bad for my air suspension I called Porsche and it was close to or just over 200. I found the OE VW part for 10. Not a typo. 20 minute fix.

 

The valve body was done upon buying the car. When this goes bad it happens under heavy load when accelerating and shifting from 5th to 4th. It feels like the trans is falling out of the car.

 

I believe they fixed these issues I have had with mine in the new ones. Overall, I LOVE my Cayenne and can only imagine the 2nd gen to be even better and more enjoyable. In a few years I will probably step up to one of them.

 

Good luck!

 

Matt,

 

Thanks for the review and I had previously searched and found your account with the cooling pipes. I do all the maintenance on our cars so I'm not afraid of some basic repairs. What I don't want is a project car where I have to crack open the drivetrain, but replacing a CSB or DS is no problem. How fast do you go thru pads/rotors/tires?

 

Is yours AT or MT? Is the valve body issue just on the TT or also the V8?

 

I thought the Cayenne was written off by my wife but she's suddenly sending me FS links. RS4 is still lurking out there, mainly because it has been immaculately maintained and a badass sedan. I think the search could take months to find the right Cayenne.

 

Thanks!

 

-Eric

[FormulaMatt]

Matt,

 

Thanks for the review and I had previously searched and found your account with the cooling pipes. I do all the maintenance on our cars so I'm not afraid of some basic repairs. What I don't want is a project car where I have to crack open the drivetrain, but replacing a CSB or DS is no problem. How fast do you go thru pads/rotors/tires?

 

Is yours AT or MT? Is the valve body issue just on the TT or also the V8?

 

I thought the Cayenne was written off by my wife but she's suddenly sending me FS links. RS4 is still lurking out there, mainly because it has been immaculately maintained and a badass sedan. I think the search could take months to find the right Cayenne.

 

Thanks!

 

-Eric

 

No problem! The DS & CSB support took no time at all to do. I think I had about an hour into it in my driveway. I just raised the suspension all the way up put some jacks around it just in case and climbed under. Plenty of room for this and I'm not too small.

 

I put new pads and rotors on when I bought it 3.5 years ago and am still on the same ones. I do drive it VERY aggressively too. I am pretty impressed so far. On my E39 5 series I had before this, I went through brakes every 18 months or so. Napa actually stocked the Brembo parts which surprised me.

 

Mine is an AT. The valve body issue I know extended down to the regular S V8 and also over into the Touareg.