AngryBMW Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 http://finance.yahoo.com/news/nearly-half-obamacare-co-ops-211800098.html No one saw it coming... -Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unfunnyryan Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 So obamacare isn't perfect and sucks. Old system really sucked too. Can we have a real healthcare system please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 This is why we need to just elect Ted Cruz. "We'll kill the terrorists, we'll repeal obamacare, and we will defend the constitution. Every word of it" Simple solutions folks... Simple solutions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 http://finance.yahoo.com/news/nearly-half-obamacare-co-ops-211800098.html No one saw it coming... -Marc Certain groups of people like to use the word "free" like they understand what it means. Nothing in life is free, blow jobs, horsepower, healthcare, and booze all have a cost. So obamacare isn't perfect and sucks. Old system really sucked too. Can we have a real healthcare system please. Why do something right when you can push some agenda built turd through the system? Just wait, when Obummercare goes into full swing it is going to get worse. A real, non-socialist system will never happen because it won't be "free" and stupid people can't get passed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grease monkey Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) Health care, was way way better before they decided to mandate that everyone had to have it, and if you didn't, you get to pay a fine. It's bullshit. All they've done, is cost everyone, more money. I'm fucking disgusted by the whole goddamned thing. Edited October 31, 2015 by Parts Monkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 EMTALA back in 1986 was the beginning of the end for this country's healthcare system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsey Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 Can we please stop calling Obamacare or affordable Care act "healthcare" ? It's health insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordell Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 No such thing as free, just freeloaders. This is one of the biggest reasons I voted against Obama. It's a damn shame how many entitled freeloaders make up this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 Shouldn't this topic be in the kitchen? This is the market normalizing when the funding is cut off. That's all. It doesn't mean the entirety of the affordable care act will fail (it's possible but not a certainty), it just means that the startups that couldn't get their act together and relied on government funding will go under and the ones that are financially stable will survive and likely grow to absorb the patients from the closing insurers. Was this a poorly handled roll back if subsidies? Absolutely. Based on the article most of the startups weren't able to meet the minimum requirements so nfp enrollment was probably handled poorly as well. I'm surprised at the number of people using the term freeloaders here. That's just sad and despicable. What the Affordable care act set out to do was to serve a class of people who were uninsured and underinsured. These are not people that had a choice to get healthcare and just decided to wait till there was a free option, these are classes of people that the old system had decided to let die in the gutter. This was not a system set up to help the middle class or the wealthy, it was to benefit a large and underserved population of people who otherwise didn't previously have access to healthcare. This is a problem that can only be solved by govt intervention, and by the way we as a county are not leaders in healthcare in the world. I'm not a fan of the affordable health care act either, I think it had good intentions but was ruined by government corruption, bipartisan sabotage, incompetence, and govt red tape. However that doesn't mean I'm going to blame the elderly, sick, and poor of its shortcomings. As morally conscious people We are supposed to be stewards of those less fortunate than ourselves. To call them freeloaders is to spit on the victims of an unfortunate government boondoggle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillJoy Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 Health care, was way way better before they decided to mandate that everyone had to have it, and if you didn't, you get to pay a fine. 100% AGREE! KillJoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokin5s Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 Heath care in the past 4 years has turned to shit... everywhere is going high deductible and there's no PPO plans available anymore... I have been put in more crippling debt in the past few year than ever before... We should not have to worry about going broke going to the doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirks5oh Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 Shouldn't this topic be in the kitchen? This is the market normalizing when the funding is cut off. That's all. It doesn't mean the entirety of the affordable care act will fail (it's possible but not a certainty), it just means that the startups that couldn't get their act together and relied on government funding will go under and the ones that are financially stable will survive and likely grow to absorb the patients from the closing insurers. Was this a poorly handled roll back if subsidies? Absolutely. Based on the article most of the startups weren't able to meet the minimum requirements so nfp enrollment was probably handled poorly as well. I'm surprised at the number of people using the term freeloaders here. That's just sad and despicable. What the Affordable care act set out to do was to serve a class of people who were uninsured and underinsured. These are not people that had a choice to get healthcare and just decided to wait till there was a free option, these are classes of people that the old system had decided to let die in the gutter. This was not a system set up to help the middle class or the wealthy, it was to benefit a large and underserved population of people who otherwise didn't previously have access to healthcare. This is a problem that can only be solved by govt intervention, and by the way we as a county are not leaders in healthcare in the world. I'm not a fan of the affordable health care act either, I think it had good intentions but was ruined by government corruption, bipartisan sabotage, incompetence, and govt red tape. However that doesn't mean I'm going to blame the elderly, sick, and poor of its shortcomings. As morally conscious people We are supposed to be stewards of those less fortunate than ourselves. To call them freeloaders is to spit on the victims of an unfortunate government boondoggle. Come back when you have some experience with this "underserved" population that you speak of. It sounds great on paper, and appears to be a noble cause. However, this is the single largest group that abused health care before obamacare, and continue to clog emergency rooms around the country with every bullshit, non-emergent complaint ever invented. They are not interested in preventive care, eat like shit, smoke, do drugs, and basically live much "harder" then the general population. They are the first to talk about suing a physician, and the first to answer their fucking cell phone in the middle of a an office visit. They will agree to mri's, surgery, etc without asking a single question about cost or how long they will be off work---because they don't fucking work. We have an hour block each office day where we see these patients. I double/triple book each spot with insured patients because I know over half of the obamacare patients don't show up Less than 5% of this population makes up the "hard working, blue collar" American who has a job that simply doesn't come with insurance. Out of this 5%, maybe 1 patient per year can afford to take off work for 3 months to recover from the surgery they need (I'm speaking from my practice experience). So, for one surgery out of 600 per year, I feel like I've properly taken care of this underserved populous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs.cos Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 Just curious.. does anyone have any first hand experience trying to get the AHC? I only have second hand. My sister tried to apply and was told it would cost her $490 a month for herself. That in NO WAY affordable for a single mom, She doesn't make minimum wage but she's certainly not going to afford almost 3/4 of rent money for Health Care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 Heath care in the past 4 years has turned to shit... everywhere is going high deductible and there's no PPO plans available anymore... I have been put in more crippling debt in the past few year than ever before... We should not have to worry about going broke going to the doctor. Personally, I'm a fan of High Deduct. plans. I've been on one since 2001 and find it great. The key is to fund the account your first year in. Most employers at least partially fund it for you and if not, get it funded. Then if anything happens, depending on your plan, you're covered. Case in point, if my son breaks his leg, wife a hip, etc. I'm responsible on our plan for the first $2,500. for the next 7,500 I pay 10%, once we're at $10k in bills I'm covered at 100%. Our family max out of pocket is $4,500 Thus for the first very bad incident, I'm going to pay $3,250 out of my pocket and then if another bad thing happens, I'll pay another $1,250 at which our plan is fully funded and we're all covered at 100%. The rest is pure savings for time ahead including when the wife an I are old and gray. By "the rest" I mean the $453 +/- I put into my HSA each month that no one can take away. On the old style plans I paid that money and it was a pure waste. Money I would never see coming back to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewtoys Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 Come back when you have some experience with this "underserved" population that you speak of. It sounds great on paper, and appears to be a noble cause. However, this is the single largest group that abused health care before obamacare, and continue to clog emergency rooms around the country with every bullshit, non-emergent complaint ever invented. They are not interested in preventive care, eat like shit, smoke, do drugs, and basically live much "harder" then the general population. They are the first to talk about suing a physician, and the first to answer their fucking cell phone in the middle of a an office visit. They will agree to mri's, surgery, etc without asking a single question about cost or how long they will be off work---because they don't fucking work. We have an hour block each office day where we see these patients. I double/triple book each spot with insured patients because I know over half of the obamacare patients don't show up Less than 5% of this population makes up the "hard working, blue collar" American who has a job that simply doesn't come with insurance. Out of this 5%, maybe 1 patient per year can afford to take off work for 3 months to recover from the surgery they need (I'm speaking from my practice experience). So, for one surgery out of 600 per year, I feel like I've properly taken care of this underserved populous. End fucking thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco-REX Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 My health insurance through work went from $100/mo in 2013, to $200/mo in 2014, to $400/mo in 2015. This is with a $3750 deductable. So if I were to need anything serious, I'd be $8550 out of pocket. I don't see how this is affordable. In fact this is ONLY "affordable" if it is compared to the ludicrously inflated costs the healthcare system is allowed to charge. Insurance should INSURE our quality of life. It should NOT be for correcting an out of control system. In this, Obamacare has failed utterly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsey Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 I was one of the uninsurable, and now am able to get insurance. Which I guess is nice, but 300 a month for the last 2 years and not needed a single visit kind of hurts. I will be shopping for a new plan for next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirks5oh Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 I was one of the uninsurable, and now am able to get insurance. Which I guess is nice, but 300 a month for the last 2 years and not needed a single visit kind of hurts. I will be shopping for a new plan for next year. That's the whole point. The reason the plan was put in place is the thought with preventive care you can eliminate long term costs when catastrophic conditions come up. The system saves money because we catch cancer when it's easily curable, treat high blood pressure before it causes a heart attack or stroke, and establish a primary care physician who knows you, so costly er visits are not needed when someone gets a god damn headache. You said no visits in two years? You should have had blood work done at least once, and had four well visits. How do you know you don't have pre-diabetes, or hypertension? Prostate checked? Are you old enough for a colonoscopy? Turn and cough bro, no homo Not trying to pick on anyone, but no one really knows the whole point of the system, or how to use it. Such a better way to employ the system. In order to qualify for obamacare and receive benefits, there should be proof of establishing a primary care dr and proper usage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace1647545504 Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 My brother and sister in law in Georgia have a small family business. They opted to go with obamacare so they could have some insurance and its been a nightmare. She has had some serious female problems and has called every doctor on the plan..NONE would see her and the explanation was the same with all..we are submitting claims but not getting paid mace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordell Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 That's the whole point. The reason the plan was put in place is the thought with preventive care you can eliminate long term costs when catastrophic conditions come up. The system saves money because we catch cancer when it's easily curable, treat high blood pressure before it causes a heart attack or stroke, and establish a primary care physician who knows you, so costly er visits are not needed when someone gets a god damn headache. You said no visits in two years? You should have had blood work done at least once, and had four well visits. How do you know you don't have pre-diabetes, or hypertension? Prostate checked? Are you old enough for a colonoscopy? Turn and cough bro, no homo Not trying to pick on anyone, but no one really knows the whole point of the system, or how to use it. Such a better way to employ the system. In order to qualify for obamacare and receive benefits, there should be proof of establishing a primary care dr and proper usage See here is a good example, I'll admit I know nothing of how to properly use the system. I've had healthcare my whole life, even as an adult I have always had it. Do I ever go for a wellness visit, no. Have I ever had a good doctor experience, no. Probably goes hand in hand. Do I take care of myself, not really but I'm trying. Where is the education? Everytime I see a doctor they throw some pills at me and ship me down the road. Obviously I'm not doing something right, but I don't know where to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirks5oh Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 See here is a good example, I'll admit I know nothing of how to properly use the system. I've had healthcare my whole life, even as an adult I have always had it. Do I ever go for a wellness visit, no. Have I ever had a good doctor experience, no. Probably goes hand in hand. Do I take care of myself, not really but I'm trying. Where is the education? Everytime I see a doctor they throw some pills at me and ship me down the road. Obviously I'm not doing something right, but I don't know where to start. I hear you. The whole system needs revamped. I am the absolute end of the line for people with knee/hip arthritis. It ends with me. If I can't fix it, it literally can't be fixed. There's no incentive for (quality) physicians to go into primary care. I take pride in being at the absolute pinnacle of what I do. I worked my ass off in med school to get the best residency in the best field. I never would have considered primary care-ever. Too much bullshit, and not to sound like a dick, but not enough money. Why the fuck would I go into a field where in some cities I wouldn't even earn 6 figures? Aside from few exceptions, the most intelligent/motivated people specialize--money/lifestyle trumps (the better cause). It is what it is. My personal advice is to find a doctor you like. Honestly, getting Along with the physician and making a personal connection is just as important as anything. Go to the dr at least twice a year for wellness checks, and get blood work once a year. Follow all preventative testing intervals in terms of prostate checks, colonoscopies, etc. our hospital has a yearly health risk assessment---you are scored out of 100 in terms of blood work, weight, smoking, exercise, etc. every year I'm motivated to get 100 or close to it. We are discounted on health insurance for having a good score. These are all things to motivate people to be healthier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 Come back when you have some experience with this "underserved" population that you speak of. It sounds great on paper, and appears to be a noble cause. However, this is the single largest group that abused health care before obamacare, and continue to clog emergency rooms around the country with every bullshit, non-emergent complaint ever invented. They are not interested in preventive care, eat like shit, smoke, do drugs, and basically live much "harder" then the general population. They are the first to talk about suing a physician, and the first to answer their fucking cell phone in the middle of a an office visit. They will agree to mri's, surgery, etc without asking a single question about cost or how long they will be off work---because they don't fucking work. This is mostly a load of horse shit. First off what do you mean by abused? Not paying? Well no kidding not paying they don't have health insurance and most can't afford the out of pocket cost of care. That's not really abuse, that's the part of the problem the affordable care act sought to rectify (and mostly failed to do so). If by abuse you mean fraud, then you have to have insurance to commit fraud which again is not really the populace we are talking about. Most Americans aren't interested in preventative care, there just happens to be more people in the lower end of the economic spectrum. Obesity, heart disease, and drugs run across the entire economic range. You are making too many generalizations here. Drugs do tend to disproportionately affect the poor but even if you were rich when you started you aren't going to be once that addiction really gets going. My parents ran a successful radiology practice for 35 years, in highscool I did their billing, and for a while out of law school I handled their insurance fraud cases and some collections. You want to know who abuses the system from the fraud side of things? The middle and upper middle class. My favorite was always the guys who used their wife's health coverage for their mistresses/girlfriends. Scumbags every one but not poor and not in the demographic for the affordable health care act. The immigrant populations were also pretty bad but only because they were so closely tight knit that once one of them figured out how to game the system then everybody in the community instantly knew it and would try it. I spent two years at one if the top medical malpractice firms in Manhattan defending physicians, want to know who most of the actual plaintiffs were? Middle and upper middle class patients. My favorite case was a guy suing for spinal surgery malpractice where he splashed out $120k for a wedding in Hawaii six months post surgery and our PI caught him on film doing the limbo. Not really in scope for the affordable care act. Truth is it takes money to sue for malpractice, those days of Attys taking any and every case that walked in the door for a percentage on the back end are dying, even in a climate where there are more attorneys than ever before and unemployment in the profession is high. It's one of the most expensive types of lawsuits to conduct and your case has to be really amazingly good (like the surgeon left tools inside the cavity good) for an atty to take it on spec. By the time you are through depositions you have spent $20k-$50k as a plaintiff, it's rare for an atty to front that kind of money in this day and age, and cases don't settle till they are past the EBTs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unfunnyryan Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 about time this thread got interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirks5oh Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 This is mostly a load of horse shit. First off what do you mean by abused? Not paying? Well no kidding not paying they don't have health insurance and most can't afford the out of pocket cost of care. That's not really abuse, that's the part of the problem the affordable care act sought to rectify (and mostly failed to do so). If by abuse you mean fraud, then you have to have insurance to commit fraud which again is not really the populace we are talking about. Most Americans aren't interested in preventative care, there just happens to be more people in the lower end of the economic spectrum. Obesity, heart disease, and drugs run across the entire economic range. You are making too many generalizations here. Drugs do tend to disproportionately affect the poor but even if you were rich when you started you aren't going to be once that addiction really gets going. My parents ran a successful radiology practice for 35 years, in highscool I did their billing, and for a while out of law school I handled their insurance fraud cases and some collections. You want to know who abuses the system from the fraud side of things? The middle and upper middle class. My favorite was always the guys who used their wife's health coverage for their mistresses/girlfriends. Scumbags every one but not poor and not in the demographic for the affordable health care act. The immigrant populations were also pretty bad but only because they were so closely tight knit that once one of them figured out how to game the system then everybody in the community instantly knew it and would try it. I spent two years at one if the top medical malpractice firms in Manhattan defending physicians, want to know who most of the actual plaintiffs were? Middle and upper middle class patients. My favorite case was a guy suing for spinal surgery malpractice where he splashed out $120k for a wedding in Hawaii six months post surgery and our PI caught him on film doing the limbo. Not really in scope for the affordable care act. Truth is it takes money to sue for malpractice, those days of Attys taking any and every case that walked in the door for a percentage on the back end are dying, even in a climate where there are more attorneys than ever before and unemployment in the profession is high. It's one of the most expensive types of lawsuits to conduct and your case has to be really amazingly good (like the surgeon left tools inside the cavity good) for an atty to take it on spec. By the time you are through depositions you have spent $20k-$50k as a plaintiff, it's rare for an atty to front that kind of money in this day and age, and cases don't settle till they are past the EBTs. Load of shit?? Really?? You're telling me that my personal experience as a surgeon is untrue?? Are you retarded? By abusing the system I mean sit your ass in the waiting area of a local er for 24 hours and tell me about the demographics. Uninsured, unemployed patients overcrowd emergency rooms everywhere with complaints varying from headaches, common colds, to "fake" chest pain in order to get pain medication. Do you have any idea how much it costs to work up chest pain?? Full labs, 12 lead, chest X-ray, possible ct scan. All because this guy wants narcotics. Certainly your vast experience billing radiology in high school as well as two whole years working in a Manhattan law firm (likely as an intern gopher boy) qualifies you as an expert in any Columbus racing topic. And you were shocked that many plaintiffs were upper/middle class in MANHATTEN??? This is my surprised face. :dumb: You have to take every complaint seriously, even if that person was there two days ago with the same complaint. There is a huge level of burnout amongst er physicians (my sister has 15 years as an er doc) mainly because of the patient population. The uninsured use the emergency room as their narcotic supplier, as their primary care doctor, and as their work excuse for having to take the day off working at Taco Bell. That's abusing the system, and it drives up the cost of care, burns physicians out, and clogs up er's for patients with real injuries. Over 50% of the patients my sister sees are bullshit cases, that should be seen by a family dr, or not at all. That's abusing the system. In terms of preventative care, not many are interested. There has to be a change that incentivizes preventive care--like decreased premiums. You can't incentivize a population that expects to get everything for free. And there is a disproportionate amount of the lower socioeconomic population who are morbidly obese, diabetic, substance abusing, etc. that's a fact. You're talking about some random upper middle class guy in manhatten using his health insurance to fraudulently get health care for his mistress as a way to argue against my point that the lower socioeconomic class preferentially abuses the system through their insane, inappropriate usage of the emergency room--which is now spilling over into urgent cares and general practitioners' offices? Seriously? I can see why your stay at the manhatten firm was a short one. Tell me how this is "mostly bullshit" though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsey Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 That's the whole point. The reason the plan was put in place is the thought with preventive care you can eliminate long term costs when catastrophic conditions come up. The system saves money because we catch cancer when it's easily curable, treat high blood pressure before it causes a heart attack or stroke, and establish a primary care physician who knows you, so costly er visits are not needed when someone gets a god damn headache. You said no visits in two years? You should have had blood work done at least once, and had four well visits. How do you know you don't have pre-diabetes, or hypertension? Prostate checked? Are you old enough for a colonoscopy? Turn and cough bro, no homo Not trying to pick on anyone, but no one really knows the whole point of the system, or how to use it. Such a better way to employ the system. In order to qualify for obamacare and receive benefits, there should be proof of establishing a primary care dr and proper usage When you're right, you're right. I am going to find my primary care physician and get blood work done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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