50 dead in mass shooting in Florida

[SpaceGhost]

 

These cowards wont attack those whose will shoot back.

 

Haven't two of these happened on a military base?

[aussiek2000]

Haven't two of these happened on a military base?

 

People aren't allowed to conceal on milrary bases, are they?

[wagner]

http://www.ijreview.com/2016/06/627509-the-father-of-the-orlando-shooter-recently-visited-state-department-writes-open-letters-to-president-obama/

[cstmg8]

http://www.ijreview.com/2016/06/627509-the-father-of-the-orlando-shooter-recently-visited-state-department-writes-open-letters-to-president-obama/

Is this real?

[Not Brian]

People aren't allowed to conceal on milrary bases, are they?

 

Military folks don't just walk around base with their weapons/ammo signed out either. The only time we got ammo was when it was passed out at the qualifying range.

[BStowers023]

Yeah, military bases are a pretty easy target. You rely on a few MPs that have maybe half the weapons training a lot of the guys on base without guns.

[jerrodh]

So Should I we all start buying $500 AR15's and 30 round magazines like crazy then sell them for 2-5x our investment in a month? Or is it not going to be that bad this time....?

[Mace1647545504]

So Should I we all start buying $500 AR15's and 30 round magazines like crazy then sell them for 2-5x our investment in a month? Or is it not going to be that bad this time....?

 

I hadn't thought of this but it's a darn good idea..lol

[gillbot]

I was thinking the same thing sadly.

[Geeto67]

 

The problem is immigration and mental health in this country.

 

You do know this guy was a natural born US citizen right? Born here in the US. Even his parents are saying he wasn't particularly religious or ideological but he was a raging homophobic bigot. But now tell me again how immigration is the problem?

 

Also, 40 years later and we are still feeling the effects of Ronald Reagan's defunding of mental illness treatment in his country because gov't sponsored healthcare is "socialism" (unless it threatens your guns, then it is suddenly the alternative to gun control, LOL).

[TTQ B4U]

You do know this guy was a natural born US citizen right? Born here in the US. Even his parents are saying he wasn't particularly religious or ideological but he was a raging homophobic bigot. But now tell me again how immigration is the problem?

 

you do know his father has defended the taliban and their views in his YouTube Videos right? He's sort of loon in his own right.

 

The immigration problems is that it isn't always the first generation immigrants that everyone needs to worry about. that was evident with the Paris attackers too.

 

Also, 40 years later and we are still feeling the effects of Ronald Reagan's defunding of mental illness treatment in his country because gov't sponsored healthcare is "socialism"

I definitely blame the Clinton's. She had 8yrs to get her husband to fix it then all the years since where she's been in a position to help push a fix through.....and what has Obama done? He and her are too busy looking at guns as the problem to any shooting vs the real underlying problems. Edited June 13, 2016 by TTQ B4U

[Geeto67]

you do know his father has defended the taliban and their views in his YouTube Videos right? He's sort of loon in his own right.

 

The immigration problems is that it isn't always the first generation immigrants that everyone needs to worry about. that was evident with the Paris attackers too.[/Quote]

 

I would ask you for a credible source on this but I know I wouldn't get one.

 

Unless you are Native American everyone is decended from immigrants. The problem isn't immigrants. Domestic terrorism is more frequent than we give it credit and sometimes it is perpetrated by our own citizens. Unless you want to make the argument that Timothy Mcveigh was somehow a second generation immigrant as well.

 

 

 

I definitely blame the Clinton's. She had 8yrs to get her husband to fix it then all the years since where she's been in a position to help push a fix through.....and what has Obama done? He and her are too busy looking at guns as the problem to any shooting vs the real underlying problems.

 

Blah blah blah ignorant liberal hate rabble rabble rabble.

[TTQ B4U]

I would ask you for a credible source on this but I know I wouldn't get one.

 

read/watch the news then go check out his YouTube channel. I think that's a fairly direct source.

 

Unless you are Native American everyone is decended from immigrants. The problem isn't immigrants.

the problem is the culture from which many of the radicals come from is like oil and water to ours. Most belong here as much as an Irish Catholic and an Orthodox Jew belong living in Raqqa.

[buelliganx1]

I would ask you for a credible source on this but I know I wouldn't get one.

 

Unless you are Native American everyone is decended from immigrants. The problem isn't immigrants. Domestic terrorism is more frequent than we give it credit and sometimes it is perpetrated by our own citizens. Unless you want to make the argument that Timothy Mcveigh was somehow a second generation immigrant as well.

 

He said the problem is "Immigration AND mental health" not just one or the other. Also immigrants and immigration are different. Our immigration policies need work, I've never heard a single person put down a legal immigrant here to better their life. And still with the native American crap even they immigrated here years ago and then fought amongst multiple tribes over land until the Europeans came.

[TTQ B4U]

immigrants and immigration are different. Our immigration policies need work, I've never heard a single person put down a legal immigrant here to better their life.

 

^^ exactly. anyone coming here LEGALLY and willing to become an American and including accepting our values and way of life is completely the fabric of what this country is made from and looking to expand with.

 

what we sure as hell don't need are radicals coming here to exploit our rules, create division and by mocking us or putting down our values, burning our flag and harming our people while hiding behind our constitutional rights. we should jettison those fuckers back to the land they came from if caught doing such things and then simply move on. forums have better rules and means of keeping their worlds productive than our own country at times.

[Miller]

I would ask you for a credible source on this but I know I wouldn't get one.

 

Unless you are Native American everyone is decended from immigrants. The problem isn't immigrants. Domestic terrorism is more frequent than we give it credit and sometimes it is perpetrated by our own citizens. Unless you want to make the argument that Timothy Mcveigh was somehow a second generation immigrant as well.

Blah blah blah ignorant liberal hate rabble rabble rabble.

What's the problem? Is it America?

 

Hit me. In 3 or less sentences.

[zeitgeist57]

I would ask you for a credible source on this but I know I wouldn't get one.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-shooting-omar-mateen-father-seddique-mateen-taliban-god-punish-gays/

 

I would submit that there ARE NO credible sources in mainstream media outlets anymore.

[Zx2guy19]

I don't have a whole to add to this, but my thoughts:

 

I purchased a gun about 3 years ago and it took about 10 minutes to do my background check. 6 years ago, I had an emotional meltdown after I graduated college and had to go on heavy meds, see counselors, etc. It lasted about 1 year. I had suicidal thoughts, etc. Not one of those things came back on a background check and I was EASILY able to purchase a gun (multiple now). Depression and bi-polar run in my family, and to that point, I was the only one who didn't suffer from it. Both my parents, my sisters, my grandparents...all had it. Obviously, that isn't the only way for gun safety, but it has always been something that stuck out to me.

 

I don't have a solution to this, but it's getting out of control. When this is the norm, there is a serious fucking problem. I'm sure you all agree with that.

 

For the record, I haven't experienced an ounce of depression in almost 4.5 years. I chalk it up to improving my health, but that's for a whole other discussion.

[Geeto67]

What's the problem? Is it America?

 

Hit me. In 3 or less sentences.

 

The problem is political ideology because as a country we thought we were smarter than the British and could pull off post WWII imperialism without actually colonizing by just installing US friendly leaders into foreign governments.

 

Religion, immigration, etc these are exploitative tools (Hemingway called them "Opium of the People") of what are basically political organizations to radicalize followers for their agenda.

 

There in 2 sentences. If you are talking about this brand of "terrorism" being a religious problem or a national origin problem you aren't seeing the bigger picture, just the distraction. Every country that participated in colonialism is having their own version of this same problem. People think groups like isis and the Taliban hate America, but yet they buy kit kat bars and dodge chargers like they were made out of gold plated pussy. What they hate is how badly we fucked their countries over politically from the 1950's to now, but a lay person isn't going to understand that and army for army they aren't going to stand a chance against the US so they exploit religious extremism to raise their ranks. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

 

Edit: Actually I take that back - some situations are so complex that they sometimes defy summary in 3 sentences. In this scenario alone we have mental illness, colonialism, domestic terrorism, immigration, American constitutional liberty, the gun control debate, etc...I mean it's a shit storm of different things going on. I touched upon the "why they hate us" concept in the above two sentences but really I think this shooter is an isis operative the way my local good humor ice cream truck is an extension of the management of carvel ice cream store in denver (I mean they both sell ice cream that looks and tastes the same and that's about it).

Edited June 13, 2016 by Geeto67

[LJ]

I don't have a whole to add to this, but my thoughts:

 

I purchased a gun about 3 years ago and it took about 10 minutes to do my background check. 6 years ago, I had an emotional meltdown after I graduated college and had to go on heavy meds, see counselors, etc. It lasted about 1 year. I had suicidal thoughts, etc. Not one of those things came back on a background check and I was EASILY able to purchase a gun (multiple now). Depression and bi-polar run in my family, and to that point, I was the only one who didn't suffer from it. Both my parents, my sisters, my grandparents...all had it. Obviously, that isn't the only way for gun safety, but it has always been something that stuck out to me.

 

I don't have a solution to this, but it's getting out of control. When this is the norm, there is a serious fucking problem. I'm sure you all agree with that.

 

For the record, I haven't experienced an ounce of depression in almost 4.5 years. I chalk it up to improving my health, but that's for a whole other discussion.

 

It's a known issue that states really fail at reporting mental health issues to NICS

[Geeto67]

^^ exactly. anyone coming here LEGALLY and willing to become an American

See this is nice and normal

 

 

...and including accepting our values and way of life...

and here is where you go off the rails into batshit crazy land. There is no communal American "values" - the American experience is different for everyone. The concept of not murdering people for a political ideology - that's pretty much a global value and not exclusive to America.

 

It's hard to take you seriously when you talk about "American values" when you don't recognize that the American system is still struggling with institutionalized racism and sexism.

 

 

what we sure as hell don't need are radicals coming here to exploit our rules, create division and by mocking us or putting down our values, burning our flag and harming our people while hiding behind our constitutional rights. we should jettison those fuckers back to the land they came from if caught doing such things and then simply move on. forums have better rules and means of keeping their worlds productive than our own country at times.

 

Tim, In every discrimination law written in this country "national origin" is the thing that usually follows racism. Why? because hating a person because they hail from a certain country is a form of racism. This rant you have above? it's a form of bigotry, and an ugly one at that. The core values of the US are it's constitution and subsequent laws, a person is not hiding behind them if they are protected they are just being an American. Are they doing something you don't like? sure. I don't like it when people burn the flag either (the stench is terrible) but the value of America is protecting individual liberties - not the individual liberties that you don't find objectionable. The strength in the US is in it's diversity of experience. If you don't understand that than maybe you don't really get what makes this country special.

 

 

TL; DR: Tim, you have said some very ugly things. Maybe you are trolling, maybe not, but either way dude - get a grip.

[turbospec29]

I don't have a whole to add to this, but my thoughts:

 

I purchased a gun about 3 years ago and it took about 10 minutes to do my background check. 6 years ago, I had an emotional meltdown after I graduated college and had to go on heavy meds, see counselors, etc. It lasted about 1 year. I had suicidal thoughts, etc. Not one of those things came back on a background check and I was EASILY able to purchase a gun (multiple now). Depression and bi-polar run in my family, and to that point, I was the only one who didn't suffer from it. Both my parents, my sisters, my grandparents...all had it. Obviously, that isn't the only way for gun safety, but it has always been something that stuck out to me.

 

I don't have a solution to this, but it's getting out of control. When this is the norm, there is a serious fucking problem. I'm sure you all agree with that.

 

For the record, I haven't experienced an ounce of depression in almost 4.5 years. I chalk it up to improving my health, but that's for a whole other discussion.

 

 

I agree that gun background checks could/should be better and more thorough. It's hardly anything to do with this guy though. Sure he chose guns as his primary way to kill and hurt people because it was the easiest and most effective way, but there are many ways a person can do that. He could have just as easily used a home made bomb or drove a truck into a large group. Something fueled this guys hate towards gay people enough to want to kill them, that is the problem. The extreme idea that they have to kill those with different views/ life choices than they have.

[Geeto67]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-shooting-omar-mateen-father-seddique-mateen-taliban-god-punish-gays/

 

I would submit that there ARE NO credible sources in mainstream media outlets anymore.

 

Don't be a cynic.

[Zx2guy19]

I agree that gun background checks could/should be better and more thorough. It's hardly anything to do with this guy though. Sure he chose guns as his primary way to kill and hurt people because it was the easiest and most effective way, but there are many ways a person can do that. He could have just as easily used a home made bomb or drove a truck into a large group. Something fueled this guys hate towards gay people enough to want to kill them, that is the problem. The extreme idea that they have to kill those with different views/ life choices than they have.

 

I completely agree- the root cause here is not a gun. I mentioned I don't have a whole lot to add to this specific conversation, but again, it has always stuck in my mind how easy it was for me to get a gun.

[El Karacho1647545492]

So Should I we all start buying $500 AR15's and 30 round magazines like crazy then sell them for 2-5x our investment in a month? Or is it not going to be that bad this time....?

 

This PLUS an impending vicious election? yeah, you should.