RC K9 Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jo-cox-dies_us_5762d13fe4b05e4be8611254 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlr8tn Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 I understand the rush to point out gun violence elsewhere but using GB is really a terrible example. Their gun crime is a fraction of what our's is and to even be caught with an illegal firearm there gets you a mandatory minimum of 5 years in prison. Just not a good example to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE-O Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 I understand the rush to point out gun violence elsewhere but using GB is really a terrible example. Their gun crime is a fraction of what our's is and to even be caught with an illegal firearm there gets you a mandatory minimum of 5 years in prison. Just not a good example to use. Obviously if you can't legally have one period their gun chrime rate will be lower than ours.. The point I believe was that even banning them doesn't stop someone who doesn't obey they law anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiek2000 Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 Guns are banned in GB and Australia. Yet their violent crime rates are higher than the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grease monkey Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 Violent crime rates are higher because the victims are defenseless. It's the same thing as the mass shootings, the victims are defenseless... Always in a "gun free" zone and such... You won't see a mass shooting at an NRA rally.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 Guns are banned in GB and Australia. Yet their violent crime rates are higher than the US. Source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sully Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 You won't see a mass shooting at an NRA rally.... Many people have been saying that a lot lately. I think it's only a matter of time until someone tries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gergwheel1647545492 Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jo-cox-dies_us_5762d13fe4b05e4be8611254 One witness said a man pulled an old or makeshift gun from a bag and fired twice. makeshift gun..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 The makeshift gun must've not worked so well if he still had to stab him afterwards. Pro gun thread turns out to prove strict gun laws work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbs3000 Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 Guns are banned in GB and Australia. Yet their violent crime rates are higher than the US. Yea, pretty certain that isn't even remotely true... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Karacho1647545492 Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 Oh boy, kinda thought that with the Orlando massacre fresh in our minds that people wouldn't be so quick to dance on the not-yet-buried body of an innocent woman to "prove" their political point. A+ thread, will question humanity again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 Oh boy, kinda thought that with the Orlando massacre fresh in our minds that people wouldn't be so quick to dance on the not-yet-buried body of an innocent woman to "prove" their political point. A+ thread, will question humanity again. In this political world, if you aren't dancing on warm bodies, you aren't going to get votes and rally your troops to say and do stupid things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokin5s Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 Source? http://www.criminaljusticedegreehub.com/violent-crime-us-abroad/ read towards the bottom of the article.... or just do a quick google search... people argue both ways... mostly saying that the definition of violent crimes are defined differently in the UK than the US, but one thing is made blindingly obvious... people still find ways to hurt people regardless of what tool they have.... Time to stop blaming the tool. How about people who are on the FBI watch list, don't allow them to purchase a firearm.. that's something I can get behind. What I cannot and will not get behind is taking that right away from the 99.99999999999999999999999999999% of people who would use a firearm properly and should be allowed to purchase a tank if they want to as long as they are found to be mentally sound, a US citizen, and NOT ON AN FBI WATCH LIST. Seems pretty simple to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 Oh boy, kinda thought that with the Orlando massacre fresh in our minds that people wouldn't be so quick to dance on the not-yet-buried body of an innocent woman to "prove" their political point. A+ thread, will question humanity again. Did someone say dance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbs3000 Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 http://www.criminaljusticedegreehub.com/violent-crime-us-abroad/ read towards the bottom of the article.... or just do a quick google search... people argue both ways... mostly saying that the definition of violent crimes are defined differently in the UK than the US, but one thing is made blindingly obvious... people still find ways to hurt people regardless of what tool they have.... Time to stop blaming the tool. How about people who are on the FBI watch list, don't allow them to purchase a firearm.. that's something I can get behind. What I cannot and will not get behind is taking that right away from the 99.99999999999999999999999999999% of people who would use a firearm properly and should be allowed to purchase a tank if they want to as long as they are found to be mentally sound, a US citizen, and NOT ON AN FBI WATCH LIST. Seems pretty simple to me For what it's worth the reason the definition here vs there is so important is that here it's reserved for more serious offenses rape, murder, etc. There it's everything that essentially has a victim. Which means things like punching someone at a bar, domestic incidents, petty theft etc all are counted over there and not here. Intentional Homicide paints a little clearer picture, UK 1, Australia 1, US 3.9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#United_States Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 first off....not all guns are banned in the UK. They types of guns banned are: - Fully automatic or burst-fire weapons, which may include some air guns. - Semi-automatic or pump-action rifles that fire centre-fire ammunition (e.g. Colt AR-15) - Firearms disguised as another item - Rockets and mortars. - Air guns chambered for self-contained gas cartridges. - Any weapon of whatever description designed or adapted for the discharge of any noxious liquid, gas or other thing. This would generally include stun guns, or electric shock devices, CS gas (tear gas), OC spray (pepper spray), etc.. Cattle prods would not generally be included, but it would depend on the type. - Firearms which previously fell into a prohibited category, but have been converted to an otherwise permitted form. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/518193/Guidance_on_Firearms_Licensing_Law_April_2016_v20.pdf <--page 17 (but I used the wikipedia summary) What is allowed Are Rifles, single fire muzzle load pistols, antique pistols kept for (historical purpose), certain types of shotguns, and certain types of Airguns. Police are allowed to carry hand guns and tactical weapons in limited circumstances, as are certain civilians with a "need" (like state sanctioned hunters to control the deer population). This is not the same for all areas of Great Britain as Ireland and Scotland have their own laws. If there is one thing GB crime statistics do support: the restrictive gun policy has lead to far fewer intentional homicides committed using a gun, fewer police deaths due to gunshots, and much fewer mass shootings. Whether this has lead to a decrease in violent crime overall remains to be seen since as it was pointed out earlier data is collected in a different way than in the US and also the US has a problem with accurately compiling crime statistics. Either way, GB overall consistently has one of the lowest gun homicide rates in the world. Of the 3 mass shootings GB has had in the last 30+ years, two of them (1987 and 2010) were performed with legally owned weapons. I don't think you can use GB as an example for anything anti-gun laws, but it is unfair to compare them to America. The whole country is not very large by population or geography so it makes something this restrictive easier to manage. Hypothetically If a single state adopted a similar policy they would probably see similar results, but on a national scale something this restrictive would be too difficult to administer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 Guns are for the most part restricted or banned from the general population. Sucks for them. LOL on the center fire AR15 ban though. Just glance at our country stats from the FBI and you see that long guns have only accounted for about 250-300 murders per year. Yeah.....let's debate banning them and waste all our politicians time and our money doing that for the sake of a lie and a politicians agenda. In the end the US only has about 8,500 hominides per year involving guns. OUt of 360M people in this country. Some damn good percentages right there. Even more so once you subtract the gutter trash that is killing each other thus doing the majority of law abiding citizens a favor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlr8tn Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 While it does look bad when we're compared to GB as far as gun statistics there's one thing that gets overlooked......there's several reasons this country was founded and the right to bear arms was pretty high on the list. Excuse me if I don't care what GB does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 In the end the US only has about 8,500 hominides per year involving guns. OUt of 360M people in this country. Some damn good percentages right there. Even more so once you subtract the gutter trash that is killing each other thus doing the majority of law abiding citizens a favor. Those are pretty good statistics, especially from my viewpoint. Growing up in a country that has a murder rate of 33 (US is at 3.9), where pre 1994 we had about 7000 murders per year and then post 1994 it shot up to about 50,000 per year(thanks Madiba)...I can't help but sometimes shake my head at people on both sides of the argument. You need to walk/talk/sleep/eat with a gun with you at all times for protection? BULLSHIT! Once you and all your neighbours require 20ft tall walls with electric fencing around your house, then we can talk. You cannot compare crime statistics between different countries. Countries have different laws and justice systems, and probably the most important factor IMO...different cultures. The US just needs to leave gun laws the fuck alone, and focus on stopping and preventing the crazies. Starting with the one that's trying to run for president, stoking the racial hatred flames. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hwilli1647545487 Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 I'm still at a loss why we feel the need to differentiate gun violence vs violence. Would it make you feel better to be stabbed to death. Your last though as you bleed out "at least he didn't use an evil gun on me, that would have made me feel horrible" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 You cannot compare crime statistics between different countries. Countries have different laws and justice systems, and probably the most important factor IMO...different cultures. The US just needs to leave gun laws the fuck alone, and focus on stopping and preventing the crazies. Starting with the one that's trying to run for president, stoking the racial hatred flames. Logic, don't bring it here, certain people don't like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 The US just needs to leave gun laws the fuck alone, and focus on stopping and preventing the crazies. Starting with the one that's trying to run for president, stoking the racial hatred flames. Actually, the congress needs to stop taking the NRA's lobby money to de-fund the CDC's research on guns so we can figure out what the real statistics are and whether there actually is a gun problem or not. Gun research on any large scale has effectively been halted for the last 20 years, what little is published doesn't provide a full picture of the problem. while I am not a fan of the LA Times, this column does a pretty good job of summing up the problem: http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-gun-research-funding-20160614-snap-story.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 while I am not a fan of the LA Times, this column does a pretty good job of summing up the problem: http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-gun-research-funding-20160614-snap-story.html That's fine, I'm all for research. I have one issue with that article though. They keep stating that "We found that keeping a gun in the home was strongly ... associated with an increased risk of homicide ... by a family member or intimate acquaintance." Well no shit. That's like saying, we found that people who have cars at home are more likely to get in car accidents. That's the problem with statistics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 That's fine, I'm all for research. I have one issue with that article though. They keep stating that "We found that keeping a gun in the home was strongly ... associated with an increased risk of homicide ... by a family member or intimate acquaintance." Well no shit. That's like saying, we found that people who have cars at home are more likely to get in car accidents. That's the problem with statistics. That is kind of the crux - one of the fears the NRA had that caused them to take this course of action was that it went against the premise that you are safer as a gun owner which may have an effect on gun sales. When you suppress information from the public in order to protect the sales of the manufacturers you can't really call yourself an advocate of gun owners (which they do regularly). I sometimes think that a lot of the issues we have in the sphere would resolve in time if more information is shared. Block the information and you have an unresolvable problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 That is kind of the crux - one of the fears the NRA had that caused them to take this course of action was that it went against the premise that you are safer as a gun owner which may have an effect on gun sales. When you suppress information from the public in order to protect the sales of the manufacturers you can't really call yourself an advocate of gun owners (which they do regularly). I sometimes think that a lot of the issues we have in the sphere would resolve in time if more information is shared. Block the information and you have an unresolvable problem. I love when people assume that the NRA is funded by the gun manufacturers. We are talking about US based manufacturing of precision machined parts. Not exactly a combo that is raking in the dough hand over fist these days. Not to mention that there is a 10% excise tax on sales of completed firearms. The NRA has millions of PAYING members that all pony up at least $20 a year. Not to mention the fund raisers and donations they get from their own group of wealthy individuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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