Geeto67 Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 Yes oil made the Middle East amazingly wealthy. And all of it with just a few families not the people. But within 10 to 15 years our oil consumption will drop rapidly and there will be a new mineral the fight over. Don't forget it's the cradle and center of almost every major religion in the world and they all hate each other. Oil goes away, we can always kick it old school and go back to fighting about ideology. Since this thread bubbled back up to the surface, forget the presidential race for a second can we just talk about how the Republican controlled House oversight committee just wants to waste millions conducting investigations of a democratic controlled white house? Is anybody else pissed about them feeling it's more important to continue investigations than to...oh I don't know....spend it on programs that actually benefit tax payers? So not only do we currently have the highest number of obstructionist politicians (all of them republican) that The senate and the house has ever seen but they are more interested in avenging their party's butthurt than they are in serving their tax payers? Anybody still feel like the republican congresspeople are serving their interests? Ohio has a concentration of Republican Representatives in the House, including social conservative nutbags like Jim Jordan (who is quoted in this article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/house-republicans-are-already-preparing-for-years-of-investigations-of-clinton/2016/10/26/e153a714-9ac3-11e6-9980-50913d68eacb_story.html). This whole thing is a waste. Honestly, if the republicans don't get the boot from the house and senate I don't think Trump would have wounded the republican party enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStowers023 Posted October 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 Don't forget it's the cradle and center of almost every major religion in the world and they all hate each other. Oil goes away, we can always kick it old school and go back to fighting about ideology. Since this thread bubbled back up to the surface, forget the presidential race for a second can we just talk about how the Republican controlled House oversight committee just wants to waste millions conducting investigations of a democratic controlled white house? Is anybody else pissed about them feeling it's more important to continue investigations than to...oh I don't know....spend it on programs that actually benefit tax payers? So not only do we currently have the highest number of obstructionist politicians (all of them republican) that The senate and the house has ever seen but they are more interested in avenging their party's butthurt than they are in serving their tax payers? Anybody still feel like the republican congresspeople are serving their interests? Ohio has a concentration of Republican Representatives in the House, including social conservative nutbags like Jim Jordan (who is quoted in this article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/house-republicans-are-already-preparing-for-years-of-investigations-of-clinton/2016/10/26/e153a714-9ac3-11e6-9980-50913d68eacb_story.html). This whole thing is a waste. Honestly, if the republicans don't get the boot from the house and senate I don't think Trump would have wounded the republican party enough. We can bring that up if you want to bring up how much the democratic ran Obamacare has wasted and STOLEN thousands/tens of thousands to millions from individuals over the years and news coming out that they will be taking even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 We can bring that up if you want to bring up how much the democratic ran Obamacare has wasted and STOLEN thousands/tens of thousands to millions from individuals over the years and news coming out that they will be taking even more. At least that tried to help taxpayers. This doesn't even try. Also do you have a credible source for this "Stolen" money? The only references I see are extremely dubious pundit sources and Mike Huckabee claiming money was stolen when it was actually in the president's executive power to transfer funds from one program to another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStowers023 Posted October 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 At least that tried to help taxpayers. This doesn't even try. Also do you have a credible source for this "Stolen" money? The only references I see are extremely dubious pundit sources and Mike Huckabee claiming money was stolen when it was actually in the president's executive power to transfer funds from one program to another. How does Obamacare help taxpayers exactly? By stolen I mean unnecessary tax = theft. Most tax dollars are stolen by the Government from it's citizens (us). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) Kerry, I can agree that Republican control certainly shows as obstructionist from a democrat/liberal point of view. Two thoughts I have related to that topic: - They see most of the liberal agenda going against the needs/wants of the Republican constituency. - They are fearful of right-wing backlash for not supporting some wacky 1880's Christian worldview agenda. I'm having fun with the second comment, but the first - while seeming like a basic and assumed tenant of a party politician on BOTH sides - shows men and women who fear change in an ever-changing world, and are trying to slow down the progress of an escalating liberal agenda. Obamacare's broken, there are vacancies on the Supreme Court, and the economy cannot support the social assistance that is now expected by many people in this country today. Something's gotta change, but the GOP doesn't think many of Obama's ideas are going to cut the mustard. Even the ones he did force through haven't been as helpful as sold to the United States people. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/ Edited October 27, 2016 by zeitgeist57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 I want to talk about another game-leveler... THE ECONOMY Often one of the largest factors influencing people's decisions whether to keep an incumbent or dominating party in office, I'd submit that things aren't looking very good for the future. Q3 2016 earnings have come out, and out of the top 74 companies that reported, the average return has been -2.23%. Not good, and charts are not looking favorable for the future either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 How does Obamacare help taxpayers exactly? By stolen I mean unnecessary tax = theft. Most tax dollars are stolen by the Government from it's citizens (us). uninsured citizens dropped from 50 to 30 million, and the expansion of coverage has led to modest improvements in access to primary care and medications, the affordability of care, and self-reported health. These were the goals the program set out to solve for and so far it looks like it's working. Is it too expensive? probably. Is it rife with corruption? maybe. But at the end of the day it's still intended to be for the benefit of US citizens, not any one political party. You aren't using "theft" in it's literal meaning, it's a buzzword for your political position on taxes in general. So no actual theft is occurring, you are just unhappy you are paying taxes, to which I say suck it up buttercup, unless you are some 1% rich dude your tax base isn't likely to change in any political election, and also they are always going to collect it the only thing that changes is what they spend it on. It used to be pretty easy Republicans spent on defense, and Democrats spent on social programs but these days it's harder to say. Kerry, I can agree that Republican control certainly shows as obstructionist from a democrat/liberal point of view. Two thoughts I have related to that topic: - They see most of the liberal agenda going against the needs/wants of the Republican constituency....but the first - while seeming like a basic and assumed tenant of a party politician on BOTH sides - shows men and women who fear change in an ever-changing world, and are trying to slow down the progress of an escalating liberal agenda. Obamacare's broken, there are vacancies on the Supreme Court, and the economy cannot support the social assistance that is now expected by many people in this country today. Something's gotta change, but the GOP doesn't think many of Obama's ideas are going to cut the mustard. Even the ones he did force through haven't been as helpful as sold to the United States people Yes and no. There is obstruction on bills and issues affecting the legislature, which has always been a part of the process (e.g philibsters) and can look partisan, and really I don't have a problem with. When you talk about it from the liberal point of view, yes they have been more active in this area but you know what...ok that's actually their job. Then there is obstruction of process and services in general like having the hearings for a supreme court justice or allowing budget hearings so government employees can get paid. If they have objections to the candidate, that is what the hearing is for - they can raise them and it gets considered and then the candidate gets appointed or rejected. By not holding the hearing at all, well...that's just circumventing their job in total. There is a difference between objecting to a partisan position in the forum for which it was intended and just refusing to participate in the actual activities of government. These are the people that need to go - those who can't figure out how to win in a forum where they are party with the controlling majority and their only recourse is to not do their job and fuck over everyone for their narrow self interest. Let's face it, if the GOP is really that worried they are going to lose when they are the majority so much so that they have to cheat the system, then maybe the party is broken and need to stop electing the incumbents and get some more people in there. Unfortunately the only way to get a fresh candidate sometimes is to have the other party win, then the incumbent leaves office and goes away and the party gets someone new to take the seat back in the next election. What this country needs is a good old fashioned fiscal conservative but social moderate who can look at the pork in the programs and ax them for solid financial reasons. The problem is there are no more fiscal conservatives who are socially moderate left in the GOP. They kicked them all out in the 1980's because it wasn't profitable. Social moderates don't draw that church money. Social conservationism has lead the GOP astray and interferes with with them actually having a good candidate. At best right now you can hope for is a candidate who is both fiscal and socially conservative, which just isn't going to be palatable. Something I was hoping trump would do is burn the GOP to the ground so that room could be made for the fiscal conservatives to come back to the party. And while he has fucked the GOP into the ground and it is a mess, time will tell whether it is enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStowers023 Posted October 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 uninsured citizens dropped from 50 to 30 million, and the expansion of coverage has led to modest improvements in access to primary care and medications, the affordability of care, and self-reported health. These were the goals the program set out to solve for and so far it looks like it's working. Is it too expensive? probably. Is it rife with corruption? maybe. But at the end of the day it's still intended to be for the benefit of US citizens, not any one political party. You aren't using "theft" in it's literal meaning, it's a buzzword for your political position on taxes in general. So no actual theft is occurring, you are just unhappy you are paying taxes, to which I say suck it up buttercup, unless you are some 1% rich dude your tax base isn't likely to change in any political election, and also they are always going to collect it the only thing that changes is what they spend it on. It used to be pretty easy Republicans spent on defense, and Democrats spent on social programs but these days it's harder to say. First. Sure, Obamacare is helping the bottom 5% of the population, yes you are correct. While doing so, it is hurting the other 95%, particularly the middle class and small to medium sized business owners. Small/Medium sized business/Individuals are now paying upwards of triple the cost or more for the same and in most cases worse coverage. theft: the action or crime of stealing. If you don't believe being taxed at the rate we are taxed at for the things we are taxed for isn't theft, then I cannot help you. The Government while it does help a lot of people, are also the biggest, most crooked thugs in the world. Guess what happens if you refuse to pay taxes? JAIL. Why do you accept giving 40+% of your income to a government that is giving you minimum in return? I could understand if we were raising taxes and our national debt was decreasing, but can you tell me if that is the case? Where are these dollars going? Wasteful spending on the Governments part through our income and hard work in my eyes and many people's eyes is theft. Just because the big bad Government says you have to do it, doesn't mean that it's right or okay, and it certainly won't change my opinion about how atrocious things are being run in our country right now. But keep those blinders on and sip that bottle of delusion, that's what they want you to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) What this country needs is a good old fashioned fiscal conservative but social moderate who can look at the pork in the programs and ax them for solid financial reasons. The problem is there are no more fiscal conservatives who are socially moderate left in the GOP. They kicked them all out in the 1980's because it wasn't profitable. Social moderates don't draw that church money. Social conservationism has lead the GOP astray and interferes with with them actually having a good candidate. At best right now you can hope for is a candidate who is both fiscal and socially conservative, which just isn't going to be palatable. Something I was hoping trump would do is burn the GOP to the ground so that room could be made for the fiscal conservatives to come back to the party. And while he has fucked the GOP into the ground and it is a mess, time will tell whether it is enough. Well said, man...well said. Edited October 27, 2016 by zeitgeist57 It's making me put something here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs.cos Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 First. Sure, Obamacare is helping the bottom 5% of the population, yes you are correct. while i agree with the second part of this paragraph, the first part.. i disagree. My sister and her boyfriend couldn't afford to live in a decent place and get the cheapest plan, so now he will have ot take the penalty this year due to it, and can only do that because of tax returns will be enough to cover it. They both make modest incomes, he's in the upper teens, and shes in the lower.. They have a two year old and a nice clean small house. If they want to keep things affordable they penny pinch every dime they make. The only saving grace they have is that my sister and niece are on Care source. They cant get married either because if they do, they will lose coverage for her and the baby because thier combined income would be "too much". Its ridiculous, and the plans are even MORE expensive for the family. They are both in their 30's and made past life mistakes but they are good people who are damned if they do and damned if they dont right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 First. Sure, Obamacare is helping the bottom 5% of the population, yes you are correct. While doing so, it is hurting the other 95%, particularly the middle class and small to medium sized business owners. Small/Medium sized business/Individuals are now paying upwards of triple the cost or more for the same and in most cases worse coverage. This is in juxtaposition of them spending on something that helps 0% of the population and only advances a pure political agenda. Continuing to investigate someone and spend millions to find what already has been found is a waste. I may be bad at math but 5% is still greater than 0% so, and by the way 5% is still 15.9 million people. If you can't tell the difference between something that helps actual population and something that is just purely a poilitical move with no direct benefit to the citizens then I don't know what to tell you. If you want to attack it, attack it for what Trish is saying: that the way it is administered has created pockets of people where it harms them more than helps them. nothing is perfect, and programs like these sometimes take years to sort out, but it's still a program trying to address a societal ill. theft: the action or crime of stealing. If you don't believe being taxed at the rate we are taxed at for the things we are taxed for isn't theft, then I cannot help you. The Government while it does help a lot of people, are also the biggest, most crooked thugs in the world. Guess what happens if you refuse to pay taxes? JAIL. Why do you accept giving 40+% of your income to a government that is giving you minimum in return? I could understand if we were raising taxes and our national debt was decreasing, but can you tell me if that is the case? Where are these dollars going? Wasteful spending on the Governments part through our income and hard work in my eyes and many people's eyes is theft. Just because the big bad Government says you have to do it, doesn't mean that it's right or okay, and it certainly won't change my opinion about how atrocious things are being run in our country right now. But keep those blinders on and sip that bottle of delusion, that's what they want you to do No, I don't see taxes as stealing because the pure definition of "stealing" means you are depriving some one of something against their legal right to it and taxes for the most part are not illegal. Are they unfair? I don't think you'll find anybody in this country that will say the taxes are fair, but they are going to collect it anyway and what the parties are fighting over is how to spend it, not whether to collect it. Even assuming the ACA goes away tomorrow, do you think they will reduce the taxes? not likely. There have been times in the past where it has happened but they are rare. when you look at most of the republican initiatives for tax reform that involve cuts they usually occur at the higher levels of personal income and also the corp tax rates. If you make less than $413,000 a year nothing is really going to change for you, ever (unless they decide to increase the percentage, because that has historically happened). I don't know about you but I ain't out here earning half a million dollars so to me neither party is representing my tax interest. As far as the "trickle down" economic theory of cutting taxes to the rich so it stimulates the poor - well that's just a lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hwilli1647545487 Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 An interesting observation someone made to me about Obamacare. "The government now has found a way to tax you for simply being alive". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 An interesting observation someone made to me about Obamacare. "The government now has found a way to tax you for simply being alive". A long time ago people used to criticize welfare by saying the government used to pay you for being alive (so they could tax you other ways). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hwilli1647545487 Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 A long time ago people used to criticize welfare by saying the government used to pay you for being alive (so they could tax you other ways). In Ancient Rome people would socialize at communal toilets. Rome had over 140 public toilets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStowers023 Posted October 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 while i agree with the second part of this paragraph, the first part.. i disagree. My sister and her boyfriend couldn't afford to live in a decent place and get the cheapest plan, so now he will have ot take the penalty this year due to it, and can only do that because of tax returns will be enough to cover it. They both make modest incomes, he's in the upper teens, and shes in the lower.. They have a two year old and a nice clean small house. If they want to keep things affordable they penny pinch every dime they make. The only saving grace they have is that my sister and niece are on Care source. They cant get married either because if they do, they will lose coverage for her and the baby because thier combined income would be "too much". Its ridiculous, and the plans are even MORE expensive for the family. They are both in their 30's and made past life mistakes but they are good people who are damned if they do and damned if they dont right now. So where exactly do we disagree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs.cos Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 So where exactly do we disagree? Sure, Obamacare is helping the bottom 5% of the population I see no help for them, only getting fucked by obamacare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStowers023 Posted October 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 I see no help for them, only getting fucked by obamacare I mean I think Obamacare helps the people who don't have to pay for it (bottom 5%). By your description of your sister and her boyfriend, I wouldn't classify them as bottom 5%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigOxley Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 OH Shit. Killary is goin' down. FBI has the 33k emails, reopened the investigation. Comey isn't going to be able to stop this one. HIGH ENERGY. What color should the wall be? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grudes Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 This whole election is a fucking joke. If either of them make it in office they wont be there very long. Trump has women lining up saying he groped them and Hilary is probably going to be indicted at some point. I would not be at all surprised if this election was postponed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 while i agree with the second part of this paragraph, the first part.. i disagree. My sister and her boyfriend couldn't afford to live in a decent place and get the cheapest plan, so now he will have ot take the penalty this year due to it, and can only do that because of tax returns will be enough to cover it. They both make modest incomes, he's in the upper teens, and shes in the lower.. They have a two year old and a nice clean small house. If they want to keep things affordable they penny pinch every dime they make. The only saving grace they have is that my sister and niece are on Care source. They cant get married either because if they do, they will lose coverage for her and the baby because thier combined income would be "too much". Its ridiculous, and the plans are even MORE expensive for the family. They are both in their 30's and made past life mistakes but they are good people who are damned if they do and damned if they dont right now. It sucks that people are getting so screwed by Obamacare. The posts I'm seeing from people across the country on social media about the increases are just nuts. Obamacare nearly bankrupt a person in my family, and has caused the quality of life for another to decrease in a dramatic way. Yep, it was a great thing all right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 It sucks that people are getting so screwed by Obamacare. The posts I'm seeing from people across the country on social media about the increases are just nuts. Obamacare nearly bankrupt a person in my family, and has caused the quality of life for another to decrease in a dramatic way. Yep, it was a great thing all right... There's talk of Ohio Health dumping it's current system and taking the hit on the penalties because it's getting so expensive for them to provide healthcare insurance to it's employees. Imagine that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigOxley Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 I would not be at all surprised if this election was postponed. Do you want an armed revolution? Because that's how get an armed revolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 OH Shit. Killary is goin' down. FBI has the 33k emails, reopened the investigation. Comey isn't going to be able to stop this one. HIGH ENERGY. What color should the wall be? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Talk a boy a great fiction. They don't have the missing 33k emails and they haven't reopened anything. They found emails in the Anthony Weiner case that came from the server, they don't know if they are even new emails that they haven't seen before or duplicates to what was already provided from a different source. They also don't know if they are even related to government business since most were directed to Weiner's wife. Comey was required to make the announcement to amend his testimony to congress, and was not politically motivated - although it's timing could have been better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigOxley Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 Talk a boy a great fiction. They don't have the missing 33k emails and they haven't reopened anything. They found emails in the Anthony Weiner case that came from the server, they don't know if they are even new emails that they haven't seen before or duplicates to what was already provided from a different source. They also don't know if they are even related to government business since most were directed to Weiner's wife. Comey was required to make the announcement to amend his testimony to congress, and was not politically motivated - although it's timing could have been better. K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 Something will happen within the next 5 days so the media can take the focus off Clinton and give the sheep something else to talk about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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