Hot Rod just went 11.83 in a bone stock 2018 GT Stang

[Geeto67]

Woah:

 

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/drag-testing-the-2018-ford-mustang-gt/

 

highlights:

It didn’t take much prodding for Ford’s PR team to offer us a brand-new GT for testing. We were sure to request ten-speed automatic (since we felt it would be quicker than the stick) and the Performance Pack, which got us the 3.55 axle ratio (3.15 is standard with the automatic)

 

Not the lightest or the least expensive GT, this tester had every option including the Safe & Smart package, Enhanced Security, Active Exhaust, Shaker Pro Audio System, GT Performance Pack, MagneRide, ten-speed automatic and equipment group 401A. MSRP on the GT Coupe Premium is $39,095—ours—as tested, stickered $53,160.

 

The GT pulled hard, pouring on the power, spinning to redline, shifting and repeating again and again. Nearing the stripe, the Mustang clicked into sixth, the revs climbed and we crossed the finish line in 11.835 seconds at a tick under 120 mph (119.51 to be exact). We’d done it, another best pass, and while elated, we wanted more. We started thinking, what could we do with drag radials, someone get us a cold air kit and a tune, what if we had a 3.73 geat? Well, those things will have to wait until another day, but the fact remained, the 2018 Mustang GT is a legit 11-second pony right from the showroom.

 

some things to discuss:

 

- the cheapest you can get a 2018 GT MSRP with the performance pack and 10 speed trans is $41K, so is the mustang still a performance bargain?

 

- With the EcoBoost stang and the GT moving up market in both HP and cost, are we seeing the end of the affordable v8 musclecar? To get into a V8 Camaro or Mustang it costs mid-high $30K, only the challenger can put you in a v8 for around the same price as an EcoBoost mustang, and I don't think chevy has anything V8 at that same level.

 

 

ok...discuss

[SpaceGhost]

:fuuuu: I can’t even hit 12s in my 2015. And I’m running the exact same tire. :fa: Edited January 4, 2018 by Benjamin
I’m illiterate

[iwashmycar]

:fuuuu: I can’t even hit 12s in my 2015. And I’m running the exact same tire. :fa:

 

Need the same roof, lol

[Aaron]

Who cares, automatic lol.

[Nickey4271647545519]

:fuuuu: I can’t even hit 12s in my 2015. And I’m running the exact same tire. :fa:

 

Must be the driver mod.

[zeitgeist57]

Who cares, automatic lol.

 

+1.

 

LOL @ 20-speed transmission and 5.83 rear gears. BEST OF BOTH WORLDS.

 

No doubt impressive numbers, but seriously...with a 10-speed automatic can you not have a super-high rear gear and taller lower ratios for blitzing off-the-line launches, yet one or two overdrives to still cruise the highway and get 30mpg with 4.11 rear gears? Why have a 3.15 rear gear and 10-speeds? The powerband is THAT thin that it always needs to be shifting to keep it on a boil?

[99StockGT]

+1.

 

LOL @ 20-speed transmission and 5.83 rear gears. BEST OF BOTH WORLDS.

 

No doubt impressive numbers, but seriously...with a 10-speed automatic can you not have a super-high rear gear and taller lower ratios for blitzing off-the-line launches, yet one or two overdrives to still cruise the highway and get 30mpg with 4.11 rear gears? Why have a 3.15 rear gear and 10-speeds? The powerband is THAT thin that it always needs to be shifting to keep it on a boil?

 

And STILL only average 24mpg?

 

My mildly modified '99 GT Vert 5 speed with 3.73 would get 20-21mpg from Columbus to Knoxville trip after trip (most often with the top down)

[Not Brian]

only the challenger can put you in a v8 for around the same price as an EcoBoost mustang

 

Around the same price?

 

New Ecoboost Mustangs are low 20's, or mid/high 20's extremely optioned out.

 

New Challenger R/T's are low 30's with nothing but cloth and plastic.

[RyM3rC]

Way faster than I would expect. Betcha they run mid 12s at LOLNTR

[Geeto67]

+1.

 

LOL @ 20-speed transmission and 5.83 rear gears. BEST OF BOTH WORLDS.

 

No doubt impressive numbers, but seriously...with a 10-speed automatic can you not have a super-high rear gear and taller lower ratios for blitzing off-the-line launches, yet one or two overdrives to still cruise the highway and get 30mpg with 4.11 rear gears? Why have a 3.15 rear gear and 10-speeds? The powerband is THAT thin that it always needs to be shifting to keep it on a boil?

 

I hate automatics with the fire of 1000 suns, but that doesn't mean I can't be impressed with one.

 

With regard to the 10speed I think you are thinking about this the wrong way. The advantage of having a lot of gears is that you can have the gear ratios closer together to minimize the rpm drop between shifts. It isn't that the powerband is that thin, it's not thin at all, it's just that the wider the ratio between the gears the more power that is lost that needs to be built back up. The powerbad is still broad, you just don't need a broad powerband after 1st gear if you can shift faster than lightening and keep the tires churning at max HP.

 

Tall 1st gear and tall rear gears = high shock load, low traction, greater gear splits leading to less overall efficiency or longevity. But it will feel like a tractor pulling v8

 

Short 1st gear with tall rear gears = low initial shock load, high traction, close ratio gear splits for better fuel efficiency but will feel like it has no bottom end and highest gear might be completely useless under 100mph.

 

Tall 1st gear with short rear gears = tolerable shock load, manageable traction (with launch control), close ratios gear splits for putting moar power down and better fuel efficiency, top gear won't be useless, and it will still feel like a goddamn red meat eating, waitress fucking, six pack drinking V8.

[Geeto67]

Around the same price?

 

New Ecoboost Mustangs are low 20's, or mid/high 20's extremely optioned out.

 

New Challenger R/T's are low 30's with nothing but cloth and plastic.

 

Nerp.

 

2018 ecoboost mustang is $25,585 for stripper spec. Ecoboost Premium is $30,600. the difference between the two is leather seats (with heating and cooling), turnsignal mirrors, and variable shocks.

 

Cheapest 2018 Challenger R/T is $32,995. That's within $3K of an ecoboost mustang and I could easily see an enthusiast cross shopping a loaded eco-boost against a stripper V8 challenger, just because of that V8.

 

sure you can add factory incentives which could push an optioned out ecoboost into high $20K, but yesterday when fooling around with the configurator, the incentives, and various discounts was able to get an RT price to $29K so...I'd say they are still in the ball park.

 

And we haven't even gotten into leasing yet. You can get a V8 chally for $270 a month for 36 mos. You can't touch an ecoboost for that (Premium is $344, base is $287).

 

If it were up to me? V8 Challenger all day every day over an ecoboost mustang.

[Stretch]

I like Mustangs and all and have owned plenty of them but paying over 50k for a Mustang GT is just absolutely insane IMO.

[Aaron]

Nerp.

 

2018 ecoboost mustang is $25,585 for stripper spec. Ecoboost Premium is $30,600. the difference between the two is leather seats (with heating and cooling), turnsignal mirrors, and variable shocks.

 

Cheapest 2018 Challenger R/T is $32,995. That's within $3K of an ecoboost mustang and I could easily see an enthusiast cross shopping a loaded eco-boost against a stripper V8 challenger, just because of that V8.

 

sure you can add factory incentives which could push an optioned out ecoboost into high $20K, but yesterday when fooling around with the configurator, the incentives, and various discounts was able to get an RT price to $29K so...I'd say they are still in the ball park.

 

And we haven't even gotten into leasing yet. You can get a V8 chally for $270 a month for 36 mos. You can't touch an ecoboost for that (Premium is $344, base is $287).

 

If it were up to me? V8 Challenger all day every day over an ecoboost mustang.

 

Stack the deck to fit your argument if you'd like but the actual exchanging price for knowledgeable consumers are quite different between the 2.

 

I like Mustangs and all and have owned plenty of them but paying over 50k for a Mustang GT is just absolutely insane IMO.

 

There are people paying 45k for new GTs when you can get used GT350s for 45-50 all day long. It's insanity.

[Dammit Charlie]

$35,995 for an 18' GT base model with 435HP at 3,700lbs

 

8.5lb/HP and $82.74/PER HP

 

$32,995 for an Challenger RT with 375HP at 4,200.

 

11.2lbs/HP and $87.98/PER HP

 

$3,000 very well spent in my opinion.

[Geeto67]

$35,995 for an 18' GT base model with 435HP at 3,700lbs

 

8.5lb/HP and $82.74/PER HP

 

$32,995 for an Challenger RT with 375HP at 4,200.

 

11.2lbs/HP and $87.98/PER HP

 

$3,000 very well spent in my opinion.

 

I can’t argue with that, but that’s a different mustang. Also you aren’t getting the 11 second mustang for $36k, the minimum equipment to run the 11s hot rod did requires the performance pack (which has the 3.55 rear with Torsen posi, and a host of other stuff) and the 10 speed which porks the price up to $41k and change. Im not saying it still isn’t a good deal but you are in scat pack territory with a $41k price tag.

[Not Brian]

Scat Packs don't run 11's. They don't do anything as well as a PP Mustang.. except arguably look better.

[Aaron]

I can’t argue with that, but that’s a different mustang. Also you aren’t getting the 11 second mustang for $36k, the minimum equipment to run the 11s hot rod did requires the performance pack (which has the 3.55 rear with Torsen posi, and a host of other stuff) and the 10 speed which porks the price up to $41k and change. Im not saying it still isn’t a good deal but you are in scat pack territory with a $41k price tag.

 

Nope, you can option the 3.55 gear separately, and paired with a base GT and the 10 speed, you're at 38,085. They all come with LSDs, it's just a clutch pack diff instead.

[Dammit Charlie]

Nope, you can option the 3.55 gear separately, and paired with a base GT and the 10 speed, you're at 38,085. They all come with LSDs, it's just a clutch pack diff instead.

 

Agreed. And like all of its competitors I'm sure it'll have rebates on it. I bet they'll be < $35k optioned to where they can run 11's.

[Aaron]

Easily. Base automatics, contrary to what's hot right now, have worst resale of them all.

 

I got 4250 off my 15 in august of 15. And 0%. Shitty thing is I'm just ahead of value even after all that. I can't advise buying any of these cars new, they all tank the first 2-3 years.

[Geeto67]

Nope, you can option the 3.55 gear separately, and paired with a base GT and the 10 speed, you're at 38,085. They all come with LSDs, it's just a clutch pack diff instead.

 

The GT Performance Package includes:

• 19" X 9" (F) 19" X 9.5" ® Ebony Black-painted Aluminum

• 255/40R19 (F) 275/40R19 ® Summer Only Tires

• Brembo ™ Six-Piston Front Brake Calipers with Larger Rotors

• "Engine Spun" Aluminum Instrument Panel

• Gauge Pack (Oil Pressure and Vacuum)

• Heavy-duty Front Springs

• K-Brace

• Larger Radiator

• Performance Rear Wing (Fastback Only)

• Silver Painted Strut-Tower Brace

• Spoiler Delete (Convertible Only)

• TORSEN® Differential with 3.73 Axle Ratio (Manual)

• TORSEN® Differential with 3.55 Axle Ratio (Automatic)

• Unique Chassis Tuning

• Unique EPAS, ABS and Stability Control Tuning

• Upsized Rear Sway Bar

 

Some of this stuff is just farkle like the engine spun alloy panel, but I would like to think the K-brace, strut tower brace, Larger Radiator, summer tires, Heavier front springs, and the firmer bushings that fall under "unique chassis tuning" all contributed to the 11 second time.

 

Ford uses the Trak-Lok unit right? Jeep used to use trak-lok in the XJs, YJs, and ZJs, if they are remotely setup the same then it's not really a great LSD. Even the Auburn Posi in my GTO's 10 bolt was better. A Torsen is a geared mechanical LSD - it's hard to say whether you'd still run 11.8's without it.

[zeitgeist57]

I got 4250 off my 15 in august of 15. And 0%. Shitty thing is I'm just ahead of value even after all that. I can't advise buying any of these cars new, they all tank the first 2-3 years.

 

I appreciate this comment, and represents my problem with such high sticker prices in the automotive industry: it's difficult for me to spend +$20k on a car when financing/present-value cost of funds (the cash I outlay to buy it) means I'm losing money while I have it.

 

Aaron's Mustang is a far more valuable vehicle in that it's both a DD and an effective race car, instead of many enthusiasts needing seperate machines for both.

[Geeto67]

buying a new car is never looked at as a positive investment. no matter what you lose money. I know this board mostly hates leases but if you really think about it: leasing can be a better deal over financing sometimes. When you lease, you are basically paying the value of the depreciation of the car plus a lease charge to the leasing company (who really owns the vehicle). If you financed the car you lose that same amount of money over the same period of time, you pay a similar finance charge to the bank, and often you will still have 2 years left to go on the most common type of finance - the 60 month.

 

If you pick a car that has really low depreciation (jeep, subaru, dodge challenger, etc) then there is a greater possibility to end up with "equity" in your lease. Most people don't realize this but you and the leasing company agree to a value of the depreciated car at the end of the lease (the buyout), and if you have a car that is worth more than the buyout - you have equity. Most of the time people don't end up with equity, and some that do don't realize it and allow the leasing company or the dealer to pocket that amount, but it can be reclaimed and used to lease the next car or even pocketed (by buying the car at the buyout price and selling it at the inflated price, sometimes in the same transaction). If you were in a 60 month finance, and I use the 60mos because it is (or was) the most popular and has a monthly payment that is usually similar to a 36mos lease, you would still have 2 years of payments and depreciation to endure, and to exit the situation you would have a more difficult time and possibly incur more costs. Sure at the end of 5 years you may have an asset but you have actually lost more money than if you leased because you held the asset for longer.

 

Switching gears for a second: how much do you think it would cost to run 10 seconds in this car? Figure you could do it all with bolt ons: Drag radials, tune, cold air kit, etc...how much are you spending? At what point is the NHRA going to need you to put a cage in the car?

 

I wonder if we might be entering the era of the "rent a racer", where it makes more sense to lease a toy like a 2018 mustang, buy the bolt ons, use the car as a strip monster, and then at the end of the lease, take the speed parts off - turn in the car and buy a 2020 mustang, reinstall the parts, and do it again. When they change the design then you sell the parts to someone who bought theirs and start the process over again with the next generation.

[gillbot]

Scat Packs don't run 11's. They don't do anything as well as a PP Mustang.. except arguably look better.

 

Many scat pack owners would disagree with that statement, but I’m not here to argue. I loved my scat pack and I got it for a steal of a price. I picked it over a mustang and Camaro because that was my preference. I’m sure most brand loyal people can argue one point or another in the performance value category all day long but what’s the point? Every one is going to buy their preference and be happy about it.

[o0n8]

I wonder if we might be entering the era of the "rent a racer", where it makes more sense to lease a toy like a 2018 mustang, buy the bolt ons, use the car as a strip monster, and then at the end of the lease, take the speed parts off - turn in the car and buy a 2020 mustang, reinstall the parts, and do it again. When they change the design then you sell the parts to someone who bought theirs and start the process over again with the next generation.

 

Not a terrible idea

[TTQ B4U]

buying a new car is never looked at as a positive investment. no matter what you lose money. I know this board mostly hates leases but if you really think about it: leasing can be a better deal over financing sometimes. When you lease, you are basically paying the value of the depreciation of the car plus a lease charge to the leasing company (who really owns the vehicle). If you financed the car you lose that same amount of money over the same period of time, you pay a similar finance charge to the bank, and often you will still have 2 years left to go on the most common type of finance - the 60 month.

 

If you pick a car that has really low depreciation (jeep, subaru, dodge challenger, etc) then there is a greater possibility to end up with "equity" in your lease. Most people don't realize this but you and the leasing company agree to a value of the depreciated car at the end of the lease (the buyout), and if you have a car that is worth more than the buyout - you have equity. Most of the time people don't end up with equity, and some that do don't realize it and allow the leasing company or the dealer to pocket that amount, but it can be reclaimed and used to lease the next car or even pocketed (by buying the car at the buyout price and selling it at the inflated price, sometimes in the same transaction). If you were in a 60 month finance, and I use the 60mos because it is (or was) the most popular and has a monthly payment that is usually similar to a 36mos lease, you would still have 2 years of payments and depreciation to endure, and to exit the situation you would have a more difficult time and possibly incur more costs. Sure at the end of 5 years you may have an asset but you have actually lost more money than if you leased because you held the asset for longer.

 

Growing up in the car business I can agree with the above and hold on to your hats......I agree with Kerry on this point The main point of leasing is to better utilize your money and to mitigate risks. You have far more options over the course of the program in a shorter time frame. Over the course of 10-12 years you may pay a little more but you do reap a lot of benefits that justify the higher costs. Different strokes as they say.

 

I'm a perfect example this go-round as the Q50 is a short-term lease vs the Audi which I bought and wasn't far from owning outright. All the equity in the S4 was just sitting there doing nothing for me. Now it's back in the bank awaiting use in other ways including perhaps the purchase of a new vehicle for my wife/family. I only financed the Audi as back then and even today, they don't lease well. Cost to finance it was under 2% in interest too.

 

Over the long-term we've traditionally bought one and leased one only because the one we buy is bought 1-2 years old and kept forever. In that case it's best to just buy it out and keep it. Case in point, if I sold the van for $2k today, the cost to us for it's use/ownership (exclusing repairs) is as of now about $140 per month.

 

I can't advise buying any of these cars new, they all tank the first 2-3 years.

 

most vehicles do. regardless of how you acquire it, paying cash, finance, lease, they will depreciate the same. Buying outright with cash may not make sense, especially today given that money can make more for you elsewhere. Money is near dirt-cheap to borrow too. Owning it and having it just sit there losing money and not having access to the equity is not smart either. The only time it really pays off is after 10-12 years or more and even then the delta between the two isn't necessarily huge. It may seem awesome that you will have a 10yr old paid off car but when you go to sell it, and actually calculate out the difference in monthly payment vs say a lease you may look back and wish you had paid the difference and enjoyed 4 new cars over that same time frame.