Aviation

[Cordell]

Specifically a pilot. Does anyone have any experience or knowledge of getting into that field?

 

From what I have gathered it's not cheap, but something I have an interest in. Trying to get an idea of how one would go about becoming a pilot, obviously it requires going to school as I know some smartass will post that, but I'm looking for specifics a google search isn't going to give me. TIA.

[Geeesammy]

Supra friend is a commercial pilot for an executive type airline flying G6's. I asked him a year ago and got this

 

"Well, basically the most common path is to do you private, commercial, instrument and instructor training through a flight school near you. It can either be a small school at a local airport, or a larger school, like ATP, etc.

All of those courses cost a significant amount, all together around 50,000 or more. There's financing available, and you can so it course by course. After this is all done, many people go into flight instructing for a couple years, to build up hours (experience). But honestly, this is one of the better times to get into aviation. Alot of jobs out there."

 

Not exactly what you're looking for, but he has 20ish year experience iirc. I can get you in touch with him if you'd like.

[Jewtoys]

If you're not racking up hours through the military, forget it.

[Cordell]

Supra friend is a commercial pilot for an executive type airline flying G6's. I asked him a year ago and got this

 

"Well, basically the most common path is to do you private, commercial, instrument and instructor training through a flight school near you. It can either be a small school at a local airport, or a larger school, like ATP, etc.

All of those courses cost a significant amount, all together around 50,000 or more. There's financing available, and you can so it course by course. After this is all done, many people go into flight instructing for a couple years, to build up hours (experience). But honestly, this is one of the better times to get into aviation. Alot of jobs out there."

 

Not exactly what you're looking for, but he has 20ish year experience iirc. I can get you in touch with him if you'd like.

 

Seems so backwards to get licensed and start instructing without much experience to get experience, but your not the first I've heard that from.

[Zx2guy19]

If you're not racking up hours through the military, forget it.

 

Yeah- I have a buddy who flies for American Airlines and he's 29, just started flying 2 years ago after 4-5 years in college (OSU) and then like 10,000 training hours or some shit. I don't know how many for sure, but I'm confident it took him 7+ years when it was all said and done since he went the non-military route.

[Richard Cranium]

Maybe leverage some of the skills you already have. Become an A&P mechanic, make more money and make connections in the industry. Trade labor for training hours. You hate the dealerships anyhow, maybe working at an airport would be better.

[KentStateTsi]

If you don’t like auto work, getting an A&P isn’t going to help. Once the pretty bs is off of an aircraft they still look like any old oil leaking 7.3 piece of garbage.

[Cordell]

Yeah I'm not really interested in turning wrenches anymore. I'm looking for alternatives rather then continuing to bitch and whine about this shitty industry.

 

This has alot of appeal, operating something, not trying to repair stuff, less physical stress, not really cusomer service, and not dealing with stupid people on the road. Has alot going for it.

[TTQ B4U]

Paging Clay....

 

Sent from my Galaxy Note 8 using Tapatalk

[KentStateTsi]

Rotary wing is the way to go IMO. I wouldn’t be able to stand and greet passengers with a fake ass smile on a regional.

[Mitch]

unfunnyryan's brother does some sort of commercial aviation, Ryan would probably be a good source of info on it if you want to PM him or hopefully he'll pop in.

 

Also, netjets has a current opening for a pilot, this will give you an idea of what to expect to get in the door. http://recruiting.adp.com/srccar/public/RTI.home?d=External&c=1059241#/

Edited January 24, 2018 by Mitch
added link

[Geeesammy]

A&P is an assload of schooling and testing, not to mention that industry is fucked, maybe more than automotive wrenching.

[Geeto67]

not to out him, but clay was taking flying lessons.

 

I had about 30 hours of instruction in college before I quit. I had a deer run out in front of our 172 on landing and it scared me enough to walk away for a while. By the time I wanted to do it again I couldn't afford it. Dad is a pilot and has been since he was 16 (he's 73 now). We were a flying family when I was a kid, at the airport every single weekend it was safe to fly.

 

Before you do anything else, I suggest you take one of those "introductory" flights to see if it is even for you. Aviation if filled with people for whom the idea of flight was way better than the reality, and they bought planes or partnerships before they realized that. Actually I think that is 90% of the kit plane industry sales. Don scott has two flying clubs that offer an introductory flight (New Flyers Association and Capital City Aviation) that offer an introductory flight for about $150.

 

Anyway, the basics are this: you need to pay for an instructor and pay for a plane rental + fuel (called the "Wet Hour"). You need 40 hours to solo, but most people do it in 50-60. At about $200 to $250 an hour you can see how it adds up to be $8-12K pretty quickly.

 

A sport license takes about 20 hours and costs less, it also doesn't have the medical exam requirement but you are heavily restricted on the planes you can fly (LSA). I don't remember if you can carry passengers or not.

 

An ultralight requires no license, and no training, but giant brass balls. I do not recommend this, but every once in a while you'll run into an ultralight pilot who can't shut up. ignore most of them as it's a pretty efficient way to get youself killed. (ultralights are themselves pretty safe, it's just some of the people you have to worry about).

 

There is also a ground school and FAR exam you will need to take. It's usually about a couple grand all said and done with the courses.

 

Most airports have a flying club you can join that will have an airplane you can rent and an instructor you can hire. Some of the bigger ones have dedicated schools. DOn Scott has both so it may not be the worst thing in the world to drive down there one day and just talk to the people in the trailer and see what's around.

 

Your basic pilots license (the 40 hours one), is basically a license to learn. You can only operate a single engine simple airplane (fixed prop and gear) in VFR (visual flight rules) conditions. If you want to fly complex airplanes (variable pitch prop and gear), multi engine, IFR (Instrument Flight Rules), tail draggers, float planes, or carrying any passengers for money you need certifications for the different levels. You also have to be re-certified periodically (called a check ride).

 

hope this helps.

[zeitgeist57]

Yes, I’ve got 55 hours towards my private pilots license but stopped short of getting my oral and written exams done. Will need to go through a bunch of it again since it’s been a couple of years but not in the plans for the first half of this year at least.

 

Kerry’s right...I’m not up on what it takes to be a commercial pilot. Honestly, I don’t think starting close to 40 years old without a nest egg of money or a lot of loans for schooling is going to help. Plus, you’d better be prepared to spend a lot of time away from home OR be prepared to move. Once you have 20+ years and with a major carrier, I’ve seen where you can live where you want and “commute” to a hub, but again you may be away for a few days at a time.

 

Not the same, but I would think it would be easier to become a truck driver, especially with the demand on this economy for drivers.

[Geeto67]

I am going to put it out there: there is nothing wrong with flying as a hobby if that is what you want to do. It's intensely rewarding.

[ODoyle]

Specifically a pilot. Does anyone have any experience or knowledge of getting into that field?

 

From what I have gathered it's not cheap, but something I have an interest in. Trying to get an idea of how one would go about becoming a pilot, obviously it requires going to school as I know some smartass will post that, but I'm looking for specifics a google search isn't going to give me. TIA.

 

 

Reserved

[buelliganx1]

I agree that starting out at 40 is going to be tough. If I remember correctly at 60 the FAA starts making it difficult to maintain your medical for your license. For an airline pilot you need a class 1, if you just want to fly for fun with your private pilot license you'll need a class 3 which is a lot easier or if you get your sport pilot license all you need to be able to to is maintain your driver's license but your limited to flying in the daytime and I believe 120 horsepower.

It's very rewarding, and a hell of a lot of fun but the easiest and cheapest way to get your commercial hours built up is the military and it's a little late for that now.

I haven't flown in almost 10 years because it's just to expensive for a hobby but I had a whole different mindset than you do. I never intended to go the commercial pilot route, I like low and slow flying and had, well still have plans for building my own aircraft someday. Also if you can make it try to go to the EAA's airshow this summer in Oshkosh Wisconsin, it's a week long show that really gives you a taste of all that aviation has to offer.

You might also consider checking out the AOPA and or the EAA for other resources

[SPL_Josh]

Paging Gabe...oh wait :gabe:

[criitter7]

Have you flown an airplane before? And what college degrees do you have? I have my ppl with about 130~ hours. I only fly recreationally but plan on getting my commercial cert in next few years. No desire to be a airline guy or cfi. You can pm me if you want more info. I have lots of commercial pilot friends I can bounce questions off.

[Not Brian]

Join the railroad

[Geeesammy]

Join the railroad

 

This is what I debated

 

But you are basically married to it from what I've read and heard. Not a bad gig for a single guy or someone with a wife and young kids needing the cash bad. Just not for me and seems like similar BS to what most techs deal with now.

 

 

 

Not dogging anyone who is recommending "parlaying" Scott's skills into something else, as I'm sure he appreciates the thought, but anything similar to wrenching on cars is likely just as bad if not worse. Not to mention most want out of this field due to the shitty working conditions as it relates to pay and the overall working environment. Switching fields doing the same work merely changes the scenery and doesn't address the underlying issue, one of the main ones being the better you get and more experienced you become, generally the more you get screwed.

 

I.E. Scott may be the shops lead tech, so all the hard diag's go to him. Typically said diag pays 1-2 hours, so even if Scott is more than capable to diagnose this issue, knows the car and the brand well, and it takes him 4+ hours to get a solid diag in and replace only what needs replacing, he is paid for 2 hours. On paper it seems like he only lost 2 hours, but the opportunity cost is much more than that. He could have had another job in that he is very proficient at that pays say 6 hours and he completes it in 3.

 

It's somewhat off topic, but that may explain why him and others have no desire to switch into A&P, heavy equipment, etc. Just overall burnt out on the bullshit and want to change it up in a big way.

[Not Brian]

Not everybody on the railroad drives trains. Track maintenance, engine maintenance, signal repair, welders, etc.. and it's all union. Plenty of opportunity and they offer paid training. Great new start for people at a dead end.

[cstmg8]

Not everybody on the railroad drives trains. Track maintenance, engine maintenance, signal repair, welders, etc.. and it's all union. Plenty of opportunity and they offer paid training. Great new start for people at a dead end.

I do not know the ins and outs of the RR industry, but I know that it's the only one I've heard of with benefits close to ours. May be different unions, but the retirement is great if you get headed on the right track.......

 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Cordell]

This is what I debated

 

But you are basically married to it from what I've read and heard. Not a bad gig for a single guy or someone with a wife and young kids needing the cash bad. Just not for me and seems like similar BS to what most techs deal with now.

 

 

 

Not dogging anyone who is recommending "parlaying" Scott's skills into something else, as I'm sure he appreciates the thought, but anything similar to wrenching on cars is likely just as bad if not worse. Not to mention most want out of this field due to the shitty working conditions as it relates to pay and the overall working environment. Switching fields doing the same work merely changes the scenery and doesn't address the underlying issue, one of the main ones being the better you get and more experienced you become, generally the more you get screwed.

 

I.E. Scott may be the shops lead tech, so all the hard diag's go to him. Typically said diag pays 1-2 hours, so even if Scott is more than capable to diagnose this issue, knows the car and the brand well, and it takes him 4+ hours to get a solid diag in and replace only what needs replacing, he is paid for 2 hours. On paper it seems like he only lost 2 hours, but the opportunity cost is much more than that. He could have had another job in that he is very proficient at that pays say 6 hours and he completes it in 3.

 

It's somewhat off topic, but that may explain why him and others have no desire to switch into A&P, heavy equipment, etc. Just overall burnt out on the bullshit and want to change it up in a big way.

 

 

For the record General Motors typically pays .3 of an hour for electrical diag of a component. So while you are correct when the customer is paying, and I rarely charge more then an hour, when GM foots the bill most techs are lucky to break even. Now that's not to say you can't get GM to pay more in certain circumstances but it's few and far between, and requires alot of leg work getting it approved so it's even less beneficial to chase it down unless you have lots of time in something.

 

What's more frustrating is when you can't figure something out, because you'll spend 20-30 minutes on the phone with GM usually getting nowhere. It's simply easier for most techs, myself included, to just throw whatever part makes the most sense. As I've gotten better over the years this has gotten fewer and farther between, but it happens everyday in shops everywhere.

 

So to say it's a flawed system is an understatement. Doesn't help that everyone thinks we're crooks anyway, customers, and GM alike.

 

Oh well, I wasn't going to bitch in this thread but I did anyway.

[Cordell]

The thought of being a pilot has gotten very discouraging reading more and more about it. I'll keep brainstorming ideas, maybe I'll come up with something.