Geeto67's Political Playground

[TTQ B4U]

So do you support this demand:

 

-- Pass a gun violence restraining order law that would allow courts to disarm people who display warning signs of violent behavior.

 

I think Kerry said there already are such forms of this on the books. I can't say what I would support until the details are presented. Clearly it won't matter if the authorities don't act to take action on the red flags raised......pretty much what happened in Florida.

 

when it comes to conversations about gun control - is "this is the cost of freedom" isn't really an acceptable answer.

 

but when it comes to abortion and the right to choose to have one, it is acceptable right? I mean the freedom to have one is ours and no one should take that no matter what the cost in human lives which are prevented from continuing through birth totals out to be....gotcha.

[greg1647545532]

I think Kerry said there already are such forms of this on the books. I can't say what I would support until the details are presented. Clearly it won't matter if the authorities don't act to take action on the red flags raised......pretty much what happened in Florida.

 

I don't think that's pretty much what happened in Florida. Authorities can't just confiscate guns based on "red flags." That's why we're seeing so many red flag bills being tossed out now, they don't really exist anywhere and authorities are currently powerless until a law is actually broken.

 

Do you think we should have "red flag" laws in place to prevent shootings like Parkland? Based on stuff you've said here over the last couple of weeks, it seems like (specific details notwithstanding), you generally do.

 

Assuming you do, do you think the lack of "red flag" laws currently in place represents a failure of adults to keep children safe?

 

If you would agree with that, why do you object to students being pissed off at adults for dropping the ball?

[zeitgeist57]

So do you support this demand:

 

-- Pass a gun violence restraining order law that would allow courts to disarm people who display warning signs of violent behavior.

 

I would support that...

 

...but that's also because I'm not a convicted felon with a court-documented history of violent behavior.

 

#NIMBY

[greg1647545532]

Funnily enough, I have a pretty big issue with it from a due process standpoint. It seems ripe for abuse unless extremely tight controls are put in place, and those controls might neuter the thing.

 

#ragingliberal

[TTQ B4U]

I don't think that's pretty much what happened in Florida. Authorities can't just confiscate guns based on "red flags." That's why we're seeing so many red flag bills being tossed out now, they don't really exist anywhere and authorities are currently powerless until a law is actually broken.

 

perhaps instead of focusing on how to remove guns from people they need to focus on how to apply that huge list of red flags noted in the article to preventing mentally fucked int he head people walking among us as a free citizens. clearly he was fucked up in the head and needed to be removed from society for the safety of others. no need to trample on the gun rights of the 99.9999% of the rest of us gun owners when all that needs done is to address the CLEARLY fucked up people in our society.

 

Do you think we should have "red flag" laws in place to prevent shootings like Parkland? Based on stuff you've said here over the last couple of weeks, it seems like (specific details notwithstanding), you generally do.

details matter so until they are defined I don't see how a an answer that won't change or could vary would be valid. I stand my point above first, address the real problem which isn't a gun or guns. Address the people.

[Geeto67]

play Forrest Gump but it's a role that's beneath you.

 

Well these days I find myself stooping to your level just to have a conversation.

 

 

has nothing to do with it. keep the political bullshit agendas out of school period.

except when it's one you support - like the pro gun counter protest, because fuck everything in the constitution that isn't 2A...amirite? How does a "pocket constitutionalist" such as yourself not understand the concepts of freedom of expression or freedom of assembly? It's literally the amendment that comes before the second one.

 

 

 

Smart ones like who? you?

 

 

 

I see no point in offering more dollars when they can't spend the ones they have wisely and connect the dots. Stop feeding the beast like you do.

 

because you are an expert in school budgeting and spending.

 

and you continually try to play the spin game vs. simply understanding what I type. again, beneath you....but maybe it's not.

 

Is there another way to interpret "this is the cost of freedom" as a response to a mass shooting? because I am all ears?

 

 

 

 

 

calling out those that failed is called forcing them to be accountable, not pointing fingers. their actions or lack of action resulted in a measurable result and 17 being killed, that's the problem. hardly a play of my being a victim. keep spinning though.

 

OK, in addition to all the others who have responsibility for this tragedy, you have failed to prevent this because you continue to believe that deaths like these are completely necessary to protecting your misunderstanding of 2A rights, and support measures to prevent corrective action from being taken or to even study this area. You are right, calling out the failure of others is cathartic.

[greg1647545532]

details matter so until they are defined I don't see how a an answer that won't change or could vary would be valid. I stand my point above first, address the real problem which isn't a gun or guns. Address the people.

 

Who's going to "address the people?" The government?

[TTQ B4U]

Well these days I find myself stooping to your level just to have a conversation.

 

then by definition we're on equal levels so you can lose your higher than tho attitude that you have expressed and been called out for doing here to so many countless times in the past.

 

except when it's one you support - like the pro gun counter protest

so you're comparing a response to the initiation of one? sad. typical liberal.....yelling at others for responding when actually they are the ones in the wrong for even initiating the originating argument in a place that should be reserved for education not a political agenda. gotcha. we're only allowed to listen to your side but not voice ours in return. I haven't turned the news on in the last hour so who knows, maybe there are indeed a bunch of pro-gun walk outs being initiated by conservatives during school hours.....

 

How does a "pocket constitutionalist" such as yourself not understand the concepts of freedom of expression or freedom of assembly? It's literally the amendment that comes before the second one.

So are my words to you showing that I don't understand the concept or is my clearly sharing that I don't agree with it just not making it through your head? I think many of us here have shared that we see your point but are noting that it has no place in the middle of a fucking school day. boy, reading comprehension is not on your side today. or perhaps you're still trying to spin the conversation as you always seem to do.

 

Smart ones like who? you?

 

 

Hey look, Kerry discovered memes and .gifs......

 

because you are an expert in school budgeting and spending.

does it take an expert to know school spending doesn't including supporting anti-gun legislation agendas? oh wait......you're from NY where apparently it does. Perhaps you need to move back home. I was just there....they miss you.

 

Is there another way to interpret "this is the cost of freedom" as a response to a mass shooting? because I am all ears?

I would start by not applying comments from one conversation to others but hey, that's just me. You seem to like the copy/paste and apply to all way of discussing things.

 

OK, in addition to all the others who have responsibility for this tragedy, you have failed to prevent this because you continue to believe that deaths like these are completely necessary to protecting your misunderstanding of 2A rights, and support measures to prevent corrective action from being taken or to even study this area. You are right, calling out the failure of others is cathartic.

^^ classic Kerry Spin and deflection. well played sir.

[TTQ B4U]

Who's going to "address the people?"

 

I guess that would depend on what level of gov't the law resides wouldn't it?

[greg1647545532]

I guess that would depend on what level of gov't the law resides wouldn't it?

 

Regardless of the level of gov't, would you say that the failure of the gov't to thus far "address the people" represents a failure of adults to keep kids safe?

[Geeto67]

I don't think that's pretty much what happened in Florida. Authorities can't just confiscate guns based on "red flags." That's why we're seeing so many red flag bills being tossed out now, they don't really exist anywhere and authorities are currently powerless until a law is actually broken.

 

It's inconsistent between the states, and that's part of the problem. In states where it is in place it is hard to enforce and usually a lengthy process. Also it is a low priority for most law enforcement agencies so it isn't as enforced as it should be. I think only 5 states (Connecticut, California, Washington, Oregon, Indiana) have a true "Red Flags" law on the books.

 

What is being proposed is much more streamlined system that honestly I have a lot of doubts about myself from a constitutional standpoint. Also I don't think any measure that doesn't come with a budget bill attached is doomed from the start. Also the NRA will challenge every single new gun control bill because that's what they do, so that will delay effectiveness.

[TTQ B4U]

Regardless of the level of gov't, would you say that the failure of the gov't to thus far "address the people" represents a failure of adults to keep kids safe?

 

I think the blame is to be shared by many for continuing to tolerate letting individuals like this kid who is clearly fucked up in the head to threaten our society by walking among us. Again, look at the long long long ass list of shit he's done and work to figure a way to have those at some point add up to his removing himself from society and stop focusing on the shiny sparkly things in life such as weapons.

 

If we continue instead to focus on guns vs people and behaviors and not hold them accountable then we will continue to have these whack jobs among us and only further divide our country and trample the rights of the innocent and productive. A double fuck up IMO. Kerry will however, continue to blame the NRA and scary guns as he seems to enjoy allowing zombies to walk among us.

[greg1647545532]

Is that a yes or a no?

[TTQ B4U]

Is that a yes or a no?

 

there's no yes or no response. read what I wrote, that's my response. if you're looking to blame any one entity then I'd say your more wrong than right by doing so. collectively we the people are the gov't so if you blame one, you're blaming both. my answer puts the solution in the hands of all of us as we are all responsible for addressing the correct problem. so far we haven't. but hey, let's go have another anti gun protest....

[Geeto67]

 

so you're comparing a response to the initiation of one? sad. typical liberal.....yelling at others for responding when actually they are the ones in the wrong for even initiating the originating argument in a place that should be reserved for education not a political agenda. gotcha. we're only allowed to listen to your side but not voice ours in return. I haven't turned the news on in the last hour so who knows, maybe there are indeed a bunch of pro-gun walk outs being initiated by conservatives during school hours.....

 

No, I am being critical of both your position that this has no place in school and your support of the pro-gun counter protest. Pick one Tim, they can have no place in school or everyone gets a voice. I've been pretty consistent in both pointing out that participation in the protest was voluntary, and that I have no issue with any counter protest, and I don't have a problem with this because #AmericanConstitutionalRights. You can voice your opinion, but since I am not the government I can be as critical of it as I like, just as you can be as critical of mine as you like (and have on many occasions).

 

I am not saying you can't have your opinion, but you can't stop me from being vocal about it's flaws.

[Geeto67]

Kerry will however, continue to blame the NRA and scary guns as he seems to enjoy allowing zombies to walk among us.

 

I am "blaming" the NRA, I am holding them responsible for their actions that prevent all avenues of a solution from being explored. Just as I am holding you responsible for your actions that support that. It's not "blame" if you are actually partially or wholly responsible for the things you actually do, is it?

[greg1647545532]

there's no yes or no response. read what I wrote, that's my response. if you're looking to blame any one entity then I'd say your more wrong than right by doing so. collectively we the people are the gov't so if you blame one, you're blaming both. my answer puts the solution in the hands of all of us as we are all responsible for addressing the correct problem. so far we haven't.

 

What the fuck are you on about? Of course there's a yes or no response.

 

Would you say that the failure of the gov't to thus far "address the people" represents a failure of adults to keep kids safe?

 

I'm not asking you if you solely blame the government, I'm not suggesting that there's "one entity" to blame, are you capable of reading and comprehending? Do you think the lack of government action to "address the people" represents a failure adults to protect children? Simple question.

[TTQ B4U]

Funnily enough, I have a pretty big issue with it from a due process standpoint. It seems ripe for abuse unless extremely tight controls are put in place, and those controls might neuter the thing.

 

hence why I've responded that "I can't say what I would support until the details are presented"

 

thus apparently hell has frozen over as we're on the same page here.

[greg1647545532]

It's like I'm asking if speed was a factor in an accident and you're giving me the goddamn runaround about how we can't discount which way the sun was facing. Jesus christ.

[TTQ B4U]

No, I am being critical of both your position that this has no place in school and your support of the pro-gun counter protest. Pick one Tim, they can have no place in school or everyone gets a voice.

 

I don't need to pick one Kerry, they have no place in school but evidently the liberal minds feel they do so but just because a conservative responds doesn't negate the initial point. To say that it does is a lame attempt and quite ironic.

 

You can voice your opinion, but since I am not the government I can be as critical of it as I like, just as you can be as critical of mine as you like (and have on many occasions). I am not saying you can't have your opinion, but you can't stop me from being vocal about it's flaws.

 

You are indeed a private citizen Kerry and not a gov't (although in your mind you are the voice of the country) and as such if these were happening in private schools which are funded by private money, the parents paying tuition can argue and do what they want. These however are in public schools funded by public dollars so their administrations should not be pushing forward with a political agenda from either side. that's the point here so you can stop trying to spin and deflect off the topic.

[TTQ B4U]

I am "blaming" the NRA, I am holding them responsible for their actions that prevent all avenues of a solution from being explored.

 

are they preventing you from funding the Anti-NRA or publishing studies of your own? there's lots of data out there Kerry and lots of studies that can be done and are done. is the big bad NRA responsible for others coming up with solutions or exploring other avenues that you seek? really? they are that big and overpowering that not one single group can exist to come up with the solutions you seek?

 

 

Just as I am holding you responsible for your actions that support that. It's not "blame" if you are actually partially or wholly responsible for the things you actually do, is it?

vise versa. go find a solution and bring the research...the NRA isn't stopping you or others from that. if you're waiting on the Gov't to come up with something, you've been a lost soul since the founding of any gov't.

[TTQ B4U]

What the fuck are you on about? Of course there's a yes or no response.

 

you're seeking a yes or no answer to whether I blame gov't and I'm telling you that my answer involves far more than whatever you define as gov't.

 

long story short, don't blame guns, they aren't the problem; people are the problem. go address the people and how to remove them from society. removing a gun does nothing but leave all the Nikolas Cruz's and those fucked up people to continue to walk among us. that doesn't nothing to protect society.

 

Do you think the lack of government action to "address the people" represents a failure adults to protect children? Simple question.

again, I think the lack of action by we the people to address the correct problem is where the answer you seek lies.

 

if you're looking for a yes or no answer around whether I blame the lack of "gov't action" then I'll say 1) I'm flattered you seek my opinion, 2)I'll say either way you won't likely see any value in it (based on your don't like what I say very often) and thus I'm providing you a much more valid and thoughtful answer instead.

 

Maybe that's frustrating you or something because you can't counter-slam an opinion from me that you are clearly trying to provoke.

 

It's like I'm asking if speed was a factor in an accident and you're giving me the goddamn runaround

 

I'm telling you that in such an accident the driver is more of a factor than speed. How many times do we hear that "speed was a factor" when the reality is the fuck-tard action of a dumb-ass driver is what really led to the crash. Of course "speed is a factor" because the only way it wouldn't have been is if the fucking car was parked.

 

guns are a factor in gun deaths...it took Einstein to figure that shit out right? the reality is however, a gun never fucking killed anyone, a person killed the other person. go figure out how to remove the person from society to protect society not the gun he used. otherwise, you left the real danger among them.

[greg1647545532]

When you say lack of action by "we the people", do you mean children or adults?

[TTQ B4U]

When you say lack of action by "we the people", do you mean children or adults?

 

voters over the course of years

[Geeto67]

are they preventing you from funding the Anti-NRA or publishing studies of your own?

 

Actually, yes they are. The tactics of the NRA are pretty legendary in how they handle other groups and suppressing research. The fact that you can't even name the organization that would be the Anti-NRA is pretty telling.

 

there's lots of data out there Kerry and lots of studies that can be done and are done

This is a completely false statement. this is consistently and objectively considered one of the more under researched public health concerns in the US.

 

 

is the big bad NRA responsible for others coming up with solutions or exploring other avenues that you seek? really? they are that big and overpowering that not one single group can exist to come up with the solutions you seek?

 

They are not big, or overpowering, but they are effective. In fact I would say they are the model for how to wield political power on a shoestring budget.

 

The government is the biggest source of funds for independent research - by choking off that avenue, they have in effect killed almost all gun research in this country. If this were literally any other medical related ailment this would be considered an outrage, yet you are oddly ok with it because you consider it in your best interest to be ignorant rather than informed. And this is a prime example of the value of their effectiveness. They have set the world back decades by attacking this one choke point.

 

vise versa. go find a solution and bring the research...the NRA isn't stopping you or others from that. if you're waiting on the Gov't to come up with something, you've been a lost soul since the founding of any gov't.

 

That's not how research works. That's how bias confirmation works. Blah blah blah, more Tim is cynical and doesn't know what he is talking about nonsense.

 

The point of government sponsored research is to fund independent study of a subject free from the interference of the marketplace and financial interests. To this end it has a huge ROI, gov't research kept the US at the top of innovation for decades in almost all fields of scientific study. The only way to prevent this in the area of guns is to prevent the research...which brings us back to the Dickey amendment.