Geeto67's Political Playground

[Geeto67]

voters over the course of years

 

So Adults then. You could have just said adults.

[greg1647545532]

voters over the course of years

 

If I have this straight then, the high school students staging these protests have --

 

1) Surmised (correctly, according to you) that adults (voters) have failed to address a problem (lack of action, per your words) that has resulted in them being exposed to risk.

 

2) Asked that, among other things, people with "red flags" not be allowed to own guns.

 

As far as I understand you only objection to either of those two points is that they're focusing on the ownership of guns, whereas you'd like to prevent the people with "red flags" from shooting up schools by "removing them from society."

 

Now, as far as I'm aware, multiple Republicans have proposed "red flag" laws that would prevent people with violent flags from owning guns. Since these laws are being proposed by Republicans (including, mind you, "Mr. 'take the guns first" Trump), it stands to reason that they could find bipartisan support. Also as far as I'm aware, nobody, R or D alike, has proposed any kind of "remove them from society" law.

 

Essentially, you disagree with the student protesters not in spirit but in substance, and to the extent that you do, you don't like that they're in favor of something that might actually have a chance of getting passed instead of something that only exists in your fevered dream world. And because of this political disagreement, you feel fit to: A) call them brainwashed, and B) pretend that you actually care about them using taxpayer money to protest even though you don't.

 

What a twat.

[Geeto67]

What a twat.

 

Can I just say that I am chuffed at the English usage of the word twat in this thread.

[CRed05]

Also as far as I'm aware, nobody, R or D alike, has proposed any kind of "remove them from society" law.

 

Wouldn't that be prison, jail, death penalty? Things that are already part of the law, or a consequence of breaking the law. I'm confused with what you're saying here.

[TTQ B4U]

Actually, yes they are. The tactics of the NRA are pretty legendary in how they handle other groups and suppressing research. The fact that you can't even name the organization that would be the Anti-NRA is pretty telling.

 

the fact that I can't name one isn't surprising as I don't give a shit. that's your concern and if you can't name one then go start one. 99% serious as it will do you more good than bantering all day.

 

This is a completely false statement. this is consistently and objectively considered one of the more under researched public health concerns in the US.

I'd ask more questions but in all honesty, I have little interest.

 

The government is the biggest source of funds for independent research - by choking off that avenue, they have in effect killed almost all gun research in this country. If this were literally any other medical related ailment this would be considered an outrage, yet you are oddly ok with it because you consider it in your best interest to be ignorant rather than informed.

that's a coffee conversation as it's a huge assumption on your part. you do a lot of that and perhaps you don't even realize it.surprising for a guy who argues facts for a living.

 

That's not how research works. That's how bias confirmation works. Blah blah blah, more Tim is cynical and doesn't know what he is talking about nonsense.

because you are an expert on research right? little Kerrism back at you; likely followed up by walls of text on how you are indeed more of an expert and on holier than all others....

 

The only way to prevent this in the area of guns is to prevent the research...which brings us back to the Dickey amendment.

you think just like a stupid lawyer dude, complex solutions filled with mystery and margin in terms of profit and dollars spent to find the most expensive solution. the problem doesn't need tons of money thrown at studying guns or gun violence but hey, that's what you got a hard-on for so rub one out to that daily if that pleases you so much. time to stop focusing on the scary metal and start addressing people.

 

you know in business if someone sends dick-pics they get fired, the company doesn't just take away cell phones from people...but you don't get it.

[greg1647545532]

Wouldn't that be prison, jail, death penalty? Things that are already part of the law, or a consequence of breaking the law. I'm confused with what you're saying here.

 

"Red flag" laws cover behavior that wouldn't otherwise land someone in jail.

[TTQ B4U]

Essentially, you disagree with the student protesters not in spirit but in substance, and to the extent that you do, you don't like that they're in favor of something that might actually have a chance of getting passed instead of something that only exists in your fevered dream world.

 

My beef isn't with the students. I've never even addressed or mentioned them or their actions. I don't like that public schools and their administrators are pushing a political agenda on school time involving students as pawns; regardless of how students feel as they don't run the school and while they are entitled to their opinion, they can voice it on their own time and dime if they choose to.

 

In terms of a fevered dream....no, it's not, there are simliar laws, especially as it relates to mentally ill or fucked up people. this matter just requires that we collectively not focus on guns and instead focus on people, but that is a dream world to you because it doesn't fit the agenda which is to stay focused on guns. otherwise, it's not a difficult concept. I'm certain however that between you and Kerry there will be walls of text that blame others, speak of how complicated and expensive it would be, how the NRA or other group would prevent it, blah, blah.....more excuses to stay focused on shiny bang-sticks that don't do anyone any harm except when bad people are in play.

 

 

And because of this political disagreement, you feel fit to: A) call them brainwashed, and B) pretend that you actually care about them using taxpayer money to protest even though you don't.

I'd insert the WRONG Trump Meme but it's been over played. Feel free to continue making up assumptions though. No wonder you and Kerry are together again.

 

if you're looking for a yes or no answer around whether I blame the lack of "gov't action" then I'll say 1) I'm flattered you seek my opinion, 2)I'll say either way you won't likely see any value in it (based on your don't like what I say very often) and thus I'm providing you a much more valid and thoughtful answer instead.

What a twat.

Called that spot-on didn't I. You're beginning to be too predictable.

[greg1647545532]

Damn, I missed that the students were forced by the school to participate in the protest. Carry on then, I'll admit when I'm wrong. That's egregious behavior.

[Geeto67]

the fact that I can't name one isn't surprising as I don't give a shit...

 

I'd ask more questions but in all honesty, I have little interest.

 

So ignorance is your party line. got it.

 

that's a coffee conversation as it's a huge assumption on your part. you do a lot of that and perhaps you don't even realize it.surprising for a guy who argues facts for a living.

 

Is it? because by your two quotes above it's pretty clear you have no interest in anything that opposes your viewpoint. Seems pretty clear where you stand on this issue.

 

because you are an expert on research right? little Kerrism back at you; likely followed up by walls of text on how you are indeed more of an expert and on holier than all others....

 

You literally gave the text book definition of confirmation bias:

the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

 

I don't have to be an expert in anything for you to be objectively wrong.

 

 

you think just like a stupid lawyer dude, complex solutions filled with mystery and margin in terms of profit and dollars spent to find the most expensive solution. the problem doesn't need tons of money thrown at studying guns or gun violence but hey, that's what you got a hard-on for so rub one out to that daily if that pleases you so much. time to stop focusing on the scary metal and start addressing people.

 

I didn't make the problem, and it is complex. Research would tell us if the solution is equally complex or if there is a choke point that could provide a simple or effective solution.

 

Tell me why the problem doesn't need money spent on research? Seriously, tell me why you don't think we need to know one thing more about this topic?

 

 

 

 

you know in business if someone sends dick-pics they get fired, the company doesn't just take away cell phones from people...but you don't get it.

 

Pretty sure my company can't fire me for sending dick picts to my wife. Or your wife for that matter (what's her number). They are some very specific parameters around dick picts which are pretty much financially driven in the financial sector. Also private companies are not the government, so the standards are different. This is another false equivalency: "These two things must be the same even though the entities and issues involved are completely different, derp".

 

what don't I get? that you don't understand government, it's role, limits, restrictions, and methods? because I'm pretty clear on that.

[TTQ B4U]

Damn, I missed that the students were forced by the school to participate in the protest. Carry on then, I'll admit when I'm wrong. That's egregious behavior.

 

^^ I don't recall saying that as I know they weren't "forced to participate" My kids had plenty of options and I shared that my son didn't go outside to joint he liberals or to the neutral group of in the cafeteria, he instead went and organized a group of kids to meet in another room to form the opposition party and two teachers of his not only supported that move they volunteered to monitor that room.

[greg1647545532]

But the school administrators pushed a political agenda on him and used him as a pawn at some point, right? I'm sorry if I have this wrong, this is a new development for me and I'm trying to keep up.

[Geeto67]

Damn, I missed that the students were forced by the school to participate in the protest. Carry on then, I'll admit when I'm wrong. That's egregious behavior.

 

In b4 someone posts one of those bogus articles about the kid in Hillard (again).

[CRed05]

(what's her number)

 

http://i.imgur.com/B2B8nrl.gif

[TTQ B4U]

So ignorance is your party line. got it.

 

nice attempt at spin but quite the opposite as I'm quite aware and informed, I just as noted, don't give a shit. Yeah....that's my line when it comes to digging deeper into your thoughts on that point. Clear or do want to continue spinning things?

 

yet you are oddly ok with it because you consider it in your best interest to be ignorant rather than informed.

 

to which I replied - that's a coffee conversation as it's a huge assumption on your part.

Is it? because by your two quotes above it's pretty clear you have no interest in anything that opposes your viewpoint. Seems pretty clear where you stand on this issue.

let me clarify........buy me coffee and I'll listen. but carry on with your continued assumptions and over thinking of things.

 

You literally gave the text book definition of confirmation bias:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

I don't have to be an expert in anything for you to be objectively wrong.

boy you are a one way only driver aren't you? so you can do the above but I can't because you don't like it when I do? what are you a 6 year old?

 

I didn't make the problem, and it is complex. Research would tell us if the solution is equally complex or if there is a choke point that could provide a simple or effective solution.

 

Tell me why the problem doesn't need money spent on research? Seriously, tell me why you don't think we need to know one thing more about this topic?

You do Kerry, you make a cup of coffee complex. do you really still need to ask the questions you just did when I've provided my viewpoint to the point even I'm tired of talking about it because I know you don't want to hear it or will just continue to spin like a top? Wow! Maybe I have stumped you or perhaps you are just a self winding spinner.

 

Pretty sure my company can't fire me for sending dick picts to my wife. Or your wife for that matter (what's her number). They are some very specific parameters around dick picts which are pretty much financially driven in the financial sector. Also private companies are not the government, so the standards are different. This is another false equivalency: "These two things must be the same even though the entities and issues involved are completely different, derp".

 

what don't I get? that you don't understand government, it's role, limits, restrictions, and methods? because I'm pretty clear on that.

^^^ that complex thing........you do it without even trying. You clearly didn't even here the woosh of air that went over your head I bet.

[TTQ B4U]

But the school administrators pushed a political agenda on him and used him as a pawn at some point, right? I'm sorry if I have this wrong, this is a new development for me and I'm trying to keep up.

 

In b4 someone posts one of those bogus articles about the kid in Hillard (again).

 

^^ clearly you have me confused with another poster as I've been in NYC all week and have not a clue what you're talking about. something about a kid in Hilliard I guess but again, not aware. I didn't even watch TV there.

[Geeto67]

do you really still need to ask the questions you just did when I've provided my viewpoint to the point even I'm tired of talking about it because I know you don't want to hear it or will just continue to spin like a top?

 

Tell me why the problem doesn't need money spent on research? Seriously, tell me why you don't think we need to know one thing more about this topic?

 

Follow up question: why is it so hard for you to answer this question?

 

Point of clarification: you do understand the Dickey amendment does interfere with mental health research if it remotely involves a gun, right? I know I have mentioned it before, so this shouldn't be news.

[zeitgeist57]

If Tim and Kerry do a podcast, I'll log in to listen.

[BStowers023]

If Tim and Kerry do a podcast, I'll log in to listen.

 

+1 could be great radio. I'll be the Alex Jones who comes in randomly :lolguy:

 

Serious question though: it seems as though teachers and school administrators are encouraging and even coordinating these protests. Kerry, would you be okay with teachers and administrators scheduling and coordinating pro-2A protests? Would teachers jobs be at risk if they did that?

[BStowers023]

I'm off to an Anti-Uber/Smart Car protest and to see if the kids at the high school will walk out to mourn the death of the citizen killed by one today. Oh wait....no gun was used so it doesn't fit the liberal agenda and won't likely get traction...

 

Ban fully automatic assault cars

[greg1647545532]

+1 could be great radio. I'll be the Alex Jones who comes in randomly :lolguy:

 

Serious question though: it seems as though teachers and school administrators are encouraging and even coordinating these protests. Kerry, would you be okay with teachers and administrators scheduling and coordinating pro-2A protests? Would teachers jobs be at risk if they did that?

 

Tim has described that his kids' school also "coordinated" a counter-protest, and two teachers volunteered to assist with it (and privately lent their personal support if I read the thread correctly), and nobody in this thread has given a shit.

[Geeto67]

If Tim and Kerry do a podcast, I'll log in to listen.

 

I’m game. I have some of the recording equipment, I’m sure someone here has done this before And can help.

 

 

 

Serious question though: it seems as though teachers and school administrators are encouraging and even coordinating these protests. Kerry, would you be okay with teachers and administrators scheduling and coordinating pro-2A protests? Would teachers jobs be at risk if they did that?

 

So a couple of thoughts about this:

 

What are they coordinating and what are they encouraging specifically?

 

Are they coordinating the safety of the event on behalf of the interest of the students? Or are they coordinating a teacher and faculty protest that the students are allowed to join into? Is there a problem with them doing either? keeping in mind that they have to account for student safety in both scenarios, it’s hard to find malice in logistics planning, esp when participation is voluntary.

 

Encouraging is a little different. Are they encouraging the students to speak their mind and participate in the political process? Or are they encouraging the students to adopt a particular position? Again since all these are voluntary it’s hard to say they are encouraging or forcing their political viewpoint when they don’t offer any special credit, participation is voluntary, and they don’t penalize people for not attending.

 

As far as a 2A protest, well context is key and each situation is unique. If they scheduled one unprovoked in the wake of a school shooting it could easily be seen as insensitive and the school could face public reprimand - not for scheduling a protest but for the insensitive nature of the protest. In response to the gun control protest however it’s acceptable as a juxtaposition. Remember school boards answer to the parents and voters in their district and one in Southern California might have a different view on insensitive than one in rural Ohio, so it’s a case by case basis sort of thing.

 

If you want my personal opinion anything that makes kids interested in government and gets them to actively participate is a good thing. As long as student safety isn’t compromised.

[CRed05]

Again since all these are voluntary it’s hard to say they are encouraging or forcing their political viewpoint when they don’t offer any special credit, participation is voluntary, and they don’t penalize people for not attending.

 

Is it really voluntary? What were the options given to the students? A) Come outside and participate or B) Sit in this room and keep yourself busy/do homework/whatever. If you are given 2 options, and 1 is significantly better than the other, do you really have a choice? Reminds me of Eddie Izzard's bit on Cake or Death - "I'll have cake please".

 

Sounds similar to these women that are accusing Louie C.K., Kevin Spacey, etc. of sexual misconduct. They had a "choice" to not be sexual with them, but at what cost?

[greg1647545532]

Is it really voluntary? What were the options given to the students? A) Come outside and participate or B) Sit in this room and keep yourself busy/do homework/whatever. If you are given 2 options, and 1 is significantly better than the other, do you really have a choice? Reminds me of Eddie Izzard's bit on Cake or Death - "I'll have cake please".

 

Sounds very similar to these women that are accusing Louie C.K., Kevin Spacey, etc. of sexual misconduct. They had a "choice" to not be sexual with them, but at what cost?

 

It's not like the protests were the school's idea, this was a nationally planned walkout that was going to happen whether or not the school got involved, right? So the school stepped in and said, "OK, rather than chaos, do your thing in this place at this time, and if you don't want to do your thing you can sit in this classroom with GI Joe and talk about how liberals suck." So yeah, there were probably a lot of non-political teenagers who participated because their friends were doing it and it beat sitting in a room with Tim's kid, but characterizing that as the school making them protest in any way is ridiculous.

[greg1647545532]

And remember that's the issue here, Tim has accused the school administrators of wrongdoing, "pushing a political agenda on school time involving students as pawns." It's an absurd accusation.

[BStowers023]

Is it really voluntary? What were the options given to the students? A) Come outside and participate or B) Sit in this room and keep yourself busy/do homework/whatever. If you are given 2 options, and 1 is significantly better than the other, do you really have a choice? Reminds me of Eddie Izzard's bit on Cake or Death - "I'll have cake please".

 

Sounds similar to these women that are accusing Louie C.K., Kevin Spacey, etc. of sexual misconduct. They had a "choice" to not be sexual with them, but at what cost?

 

Kinda what I was thinking. The fact that one option is, let's go outside and protest against guns and the other was hey sit in this room and be quiet is quite alarming.