Geeto67's Political Playground

[CRed05]

On a far enough timeline back we are all colonizers and pilgrims. And History is always going to be complex. Still, at some point it stopped being about Afrikaners and English and became Black and White. If you look at the US, we went through the same things and honestly, most black people aren't indigenous to this country either.

 

Well on a far enough timeline, we are all from Africa. Some Afrikaners still to this very day has resentment to the English. My grandmother still calls English "rednecks", because when they came to Africa during the Anglo-Boer War, the sun burned the back of their necks red. I guess I have forgiven but not forgotten what they did to my great grandmother and her generation. To those reading this and aren't sure what I'm talking about...lets just say Hitler got his ideas for concentration camps from what the British did to the Boer women and children.

 

The similarities between the US and South Africa are plenty, which is why I think it's a great case study for the US to see how you want your future to be.

 

but ok, the indigenous people thing is murky, so let's just focus that the European Colonizers made slaves out of the Bantu's (primarily the xhosa), and then when slavery was abolished they instituted a system of indentured servitude. Then came the legislation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natives_Land_Act,_1913) that limited the amount of land black people could hold in SA (similar as to how the US shoved the First Nation people on to reservations), they took away the rights to vote (the General Pass Regulations Act), The instituted residential segregation, etc...I mean all the same stuff the US was doing to the black population here in America in the 1800's except we are talking about the 1900's (pre 1948).

 

History is very complex in this area, but honestly you are making a case for permissible racism at the end of the day. Sure it was bloddier and way more recent than what happened in the US, but there are some parallels that draw to the Civil war (Boer wars), Jim Crow (Apartheid), and the Civil rights movement (the Anti-Apartheid movement). History has borne out again and again the subjugation and segregation of people along racial lines doesn't end well and isn't generally the right thing to do.

 

Yeah, the similarities are crazy. I'm not making a case for permissible racism. I'm mostly sick of misinformation. I suppose I'm making a case that we need to realize that there are different cultures in the world, and instead of ignoring it, and trying to mold and shape us all as the same (there are no genders, there are no races, etc), we need to accept it. History has proven over and over again that a true multicultural nation doesn't work without one culture adopting the other's. The US has probably been the closest, but when people move here, they assimilate to American culture. When they don't, you get the YouTube shooter.

 

Even worse is all this...for a lack of a better word, white guilt. To me that doesn't mean white people, to me that means western culture. We're destroying western culture. If western culture is so bad, why did black Africans from all over move to, or tried to come live in South Africa during and after Apartheid? Why are they coming to live in Europe, US (with all these terrible laws like segregation and Jim Crow laws), Canada, Australia & New Zealand? Now people are getting butterknived to death in London.

[Geeto67]

Total but limited to slander is how I feel about it. You can call me whatever the hell you want and tell all the dead baby jokes you want without getting arrested. That's freedom, and that's how a healthy society should function.

 

So not "total" then. The current limitations in the US are:

 

- False statements of fact, Not all false statements but Knwingly making false statements; slander is covered under here. Historical statements, some medical statements, etc...are still protected speech as is unknowing statements (like unsubstantiated beliefs)

 

- Inciting imminent lawless action subject to clear and present danger. e.g. you can't advocate violence as a means of enacting political reform where it is reasonably certain said violence will happen.

 

- Obscenity, as established by community standards. This is what gives the FCC the right to keep people from saying "Fuck" on network television

 

- Child Pornography

 

- Fighting words and offensive speech, like hate speech. If you can reasonable expect using these words will cause someone to fight you then yeah...it ain't protected.

 

- Speech owned by others, e.g. intellectual property rights.

 

- Commercial speech. Not a total exemption but diminished rights.

 

Each one of these could be a multi volume tome on it's own, but I would say it's pretty fair and free given the restrictions.

 

 

Throwing someone in jail because what they said is censorship. With censorship, education about it cannot happen. How does the whole abstinence vs sexual education work to prevent teen pregnancies?

 

Throwing someone in jail is government censorship. There are other methods of censorship that don't involve the government, and are not illegal, but still happen. I agree we should be talking about it in all forums, so make education happen. Still there are ways to teach this stuff without running afoul of hate speech and other forms of unprotected speech. I learned about the civil war without ever hearing the N word, and people do have sensible educated discussions freely about the N word and it's merits without running afoul of hate speech. This is not your SA woman who assaulted two police officers with the specific intent of causing harm.

 

It's propaganda. The same thing Cambridge Analytica used to swing the election. Doesn't matter how small and insignificant The Daily Show's influence is...what's that saying about the mustard seed? It might be tiny but grows into a big ass tree or someshit.

 

Maybe it is and maybe it isn't, but that's not the primary reason why there is a congressional hearing around Facebook. The core issue is data privacy and whether Facebook should have been more careful about the information it shared that was used to make propaganda - not the actual output message itself which was clearly used by foreign governments to compromise the security of the US.

 

Yeah nah, I'd like to read these history books about her on any positive influence she had on the nation's history, besides a warm place for Madiba to put is "spear". When I say history books, I mean factual history, not someone feelings or ideologies.

 

what you really mean is "I'm not reading anything that disagrees with my ideology", which is just bullshit. If there is a qualifying statement in there that precludes you from reading some things then you just aren't open to the information. What you should do is read it, and then dissect it so as to why it draws a different conclusion from you.

[Geeto67]

Well on a far enough timeline, we are all from Africa. Some Afrikaners still to this very day has resentment to the English. My grandmother still calls English "rednecks", because when they came to Africa during the Anglo-Boer War, the sun burned the back of their necks red. I guess I have forgiven but not forgotten what they did to my great grandmother and her generation. To those reading this and aren't sure what I'm talking about...lets just say Hitler got his ideas for concentration camps from what the British did to the Boer women and children.

 

And that's fine. Understanding is not the same thing as morality. I can understand why the Boers did, and the British did, but none of that makes it right. At some point you have to learn from the past and say the past is past and we are moving in a different direction.

 

The similarities between the US and South Africa are plenty, which is why I think it's a great case study for the US to see how you want your future to be.

 

eh....maybe on somethings, but on a lot of things SA is lagging behind. I don't know if it's a look at the future so much as it affords an objective look at the present to learn from as an empathetic outsider.

 

 

Yeah, the similarities are crazy. I'm not making a case for permissible racism. I'm mostly sick of misinformation. I suppose I'm making a case that we need to realize that there are different cultures in the world, and instead of ignoring it, and trying to mold and shape us all as the same (there are no genders, there are no races, etc), we need to accept it. History has proven over and over again that a true multicultural nation doesn't work without one culture adopting the other's. The US has probably been the closest, but when people move here, they assimilate to American culture.

 

We all are sick of mis-information, but that's the yoke we bear. If we are committed to being whole, educated, enlightened people it is our responsibility to separate the wheat from the chaff and not be drawn into the traps by things that affect us emotionally. That's man's inner turmoil as old as time, Logic vs emotion.

 

The majority of those looking for "equality" aren't looking for homogeneity, just recognition and an end to systems setup to exploit because of antiquated tribalism around race.

 

American "culture" is a mix of a lot of cultures so there is no true assimilation to it. Everybody assimilates to the level they are comfortable with, and it generally works because crime rates among immigrants aren't any different than crime rates among natural born citizens.

 

When they don't, you get the YouTube shooter.

eh...there are plenty of domestic, born and bred US citizens that go on mass shooting sprees too. The Parkland shooter wasn't an un-assimilated immigrant. Neither was Tim McVey. There really isn't any evidence to support this.

[CRed05]

So not "total" then. The current limitations in the US are:

 

- False statements of fact, Not all false statements but Knwingly making false statements; slander is covered under here. Historical statements, some medical statements, etc...are still protected speech as is unknowing statements (like unsubstantiated beliefs)

 

- Inciting imminent lawless action subject to clear and present danger. e.g. you can't advocate violence as a means of enacting political reform where it is reasonably certain said violence will happen.

 

- Obscenity, as established by community standards. This is what gives the FCC the right to keep people from saying "Fuck" on network television

 

- Child Pornography

 

- Fighting words and offensive speech, like hate speech. If you can reasonable expect using these words will cause someone to fight you then yeah...it ain't protected.

 

- Speech owned by others, e.g. intellectual property rights.

 

- Commercial speech. Not a total exemption but diminished rights.

 

Each one of these could be a multi volume tome on it's own, but I would say it's pretty fair and free given the restrictions.

 

I'm confused about some of those and how they pertain to speech at all, like child porno

 

If you say something that pisses me off and makes me take a swing at you, I should be the one getting arrested for assault. But you're saying I can just tell the cop "them were fightin' words" and you get arrested for hate speech?

 

 

what you really mean is "I'm not reading anything that disagrees with my ideology", which is just bullshit. If there is a qualifying statement in there that precludes you from reading some things then you just aren't open to the information.

 

No, that's not what I'm saying at all.

[CRed05]

American "culture" is a mix of a lot of cultures so there is no true assimilation to it.

 

Yes, mostly British, German and Irish. Majority speaks one language, which is English, if they can speak another language is probably Spanish (which comes from Spain, in Western Europe), German or French. All the road signs are written in English, maybe Spanish as well in some states. The year currently is 2018. We allow women to drive, when you go to the doctor you're not prescribed rhino horn for E.D., your wealth isn't measured in how many wives and children you have...

 

Smells a lot like western culture up in here.

[Geeto67]

I'm confused about some of those and how they pertain to speech at all, like child porno

 

That has to do with the definition of "Speech" within the bounds of the constitution. It really should be "Freedom of Speech, Expression, and the Press" but everyone colloquially shortens it to "Free speech" without truncating the idea.

 

That itself could be another long tome but the basics are that "Speech" isn't really just the words you speak, it's talking, writing, printing, broadcasting, using the internet, as well as any visual symbolism and symbolic acts you use to express yourself or carry a message. This covers most of the Art world as well as displaying flags, burning crosses, wearing armbands, etc...

 

If you are still confused, read this, it's a pretty good introduction: https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/interactive-constitution-the-meaning-of-free-speech

 

 

If you say something that pisses me off and makes me take a swing at you, I should be the one getting arrested for assault. But you're saying I can just tell the cop "them were fightin' words" and you get arrested for hate speech?

 

Well it is more complex than that and based on the content of what was said:

 

- If I didn't know what I said would set you off then generally no, not really. It wasn't intended and violence was an unreasonable action. You still might have some defense depending on the content (e.g. I say "incoming" and you have a PTSD flashback) as to the state or local assault charge but you could be arrested and charged.

 

- If it can be proven that I knew and still did it, then I am presumed that your striking me is not unreasonable and I would probably be charged with a lesser state or local criminal charge like verbal assault or inciting criminal behavior. You could still be arrested as well under assualt but would have a pretty good defense in court. However I should point out that the standard in most jurisdictions isn't just me saying one thing, but a series of actions to provoke you striking me (such as me bullying you at work).

 

- If what I say is commonly understood to be of the nature that a violent reaction is not unreasonable, e.g. a racial slur, Then I would be arrested and charged with assault, and you could be arrested as well. Depending on how aggressive I was you could have a very good affirmative defense to the charge that you were defending yourself. If what I said was a prohibited racial or ethnic slur commonly understood to be so in the context it was used - then I am likely to be charged with committing a federal hate crime as well. The precedent for this is quite high as well, it is doubtful that I would be charged with a hate crime, but if I said it..I dunno...48 times in a really threatening way, or painted a giant slur on the side of a building I didn't own but was guaranteed to get maximum exposure to the group I am trying to offend (like a synagogue or a mosque) , then I don't think I am getting around it.

 

It's way more complex that than but you get the idea. Also you have to remember, being arrested, being charged, and being convicted are all different things:

 

- Being arrested is the state detaining you and depriving you of your liberty in connection with a suspected crime.

 

- Being Charged is the State formally accusing you of committing that crime,

 

- Being convicted is the state proving through evidence to a jury of your peers (or sometimes a deciding judge) that you actually committed that crime.

 

What you are worried about is being charged, not being arrested. You can be arrested without being charged.

 

No, that's not what I'm saying at all.

Then what are you saying? Because from where I sit your filter is the ideology and content.

[Geeto67]

Yes, mostly British, German and Irish.

 

you are way oversimplifying it. And very little of American "white" culture still retains traditional Irish, German, British, etc...culture as regional pockets developed.

 

Majority speaks one language, which is English, if they can speak another language is probably Spanish (which comes from Spain, in Western Europe), German or French

 

Except the majority Spanish spoken is a Central and South American dialect that has evolved from Spanish explorers and no longer resembles the original Spain it originated from. The third most spoken language in the US is Chinese followed by French Creole, which is another evolved language and has it's own sub dialects.

 

. All the road signs are written in English, maybe Spanish as well in some states.

And Chinese, and native american, and french creole, and Klallam, etc...road signs are regionally curated for non federal highways, so while there is a recommended US standard the local community still has to meet the needs of their population. My Hometown of Flushing, Queens in NYC has street signs in Chinese, Korean, and Hindi

 

The year currently is 2018

If you don't live in one of the many communities that exist in the US that don't use the Gregorian calendar. If you live in the orthodox Jewish community the year is currently 5778.

 

 

We allow women to drive,

If you don't live in a community that prohibits that in the US.

 

when you go to the doctor you're not prescribed rhino horn for E.D.

If you choose to go to a western medicine physician, which you are not obligated to do. If you go to a hospital emergency room and the Dr prescribes something you can refuse it and ask for rhino horn. They may not give it to you, but that doesn't keep you from seeking it out elsewhere. The only times were you may be forced to take western medicine is when you are unconscious and it is necessary to save your life, or when you are a child and it is necessary to save your life. In the case of children, care can still be refused up to a point on religious grounds.

 

your wealth isn't measured in how many wives and children you have...

 

Is it though? There is an entire part of mainstream American subculture that does measure status by those things, excluding the actual closed communities and groups that do measure "true wealth" by those things.

 

Smells a lot like western culture up in here.

I think you are just smelling your own farts.

[CRed05]

Then what are you saying? Because from where I sit your filter is the ideology and content.

 

I feel like I've said it already, but the reason I don't agree with what Trevor giving praise to Winnie is because she is a murderer, and convicted for fraud an theft, and as I just found out, she also lost her position as the president of the ANC women's league for corruption.

 

The one position where she could have had a positive influence on black woman, she decided to be corrupt instead...as the majority ANC members seem to be, another difference in culture being a possible cause of why African leaders seem to always be corrupt. How that culture measures wealth and what it means to be a leader in that culture.

 

The things I mention of her are facts, he praises her for some mythical shit, like she's on par with her ex-husband, who she couldn't even be faithful to.

 

Now with Nelson, I can agree with him. Yes, he was involved in people losing their lives, but at least you can prove with facts that he did good and positive things for his people.

[cdk 4219]

Of course it's relevant, it's just barely a starting point. Do you know how many bad parents I see at my kids' school? Hardly any, because I live in fucking Upper Arlington where there's a whole lot of two parent families, because the divorce rate is low, because people have money and money troubles are a major factor in divorce. Kids want for nothing here, never worry about crime, and generally get the intervention they need as soon as possible, because our schools can afford it. So let's just cure poverty and parenting will get better, easy as pie. That's an undoubtedly true fact, right? Curing poverty would greatly improve parenting.

 

I guess my issue is that blaming the parents is often used as a way to dodge responsibility. Maybe we should end the war on drugs and soften the war on crime so more of these inner city kids might actually grow up with fathers, but that would require a personal sacrifice or for people to actually lift a finger to help those outside of their immediate community. It's much easier to blame bad parenting and call it a day.

 

I would suggest giving up your Arlington home to an underprivileged family. You should start a trend. Better yet we should take the Upper Arlington police out of Arlington and have them patrol and mentor the Hilltop area. How about cutting the Arlington police force by 80% or so and redirecting the funds to the inner city?

 

Those would only be small sacrifices and certainly would help, and your community wouldn’t have any downsides.

[CRed05]

you are way oversimplifying it. And very little of American "white" culture still retains traditional Irish, German, British, etc...culture as regional pockets developed.

 

 

 

Except the majority Spanish spoken is a Central and South American dialect that has evolved from Spanish explorers and no longer resembles the original Spain it originated from. The third most spoken language in the US is Chinese followed by French Creole, which is another evolved language and has it's own sub dialects.

 

 

And Chinese, and native american, and french creole, and Klallam, etc...road signs are regionally curated for non federal highways, so while there is a recommended US standard the local community still has to meet the needs of their population. My Hometown of Flushing, Queens in NYC has street signs in Chinese, Korean, and Hindi

 

 

If you don't live in one of the many communities that exist in the US that don't use the Gregorian calendar. If you live in the orthodox Jewish community the year is currently 5778.

 

 

 

If you don't live in a community that prohibits that in the US.

 

 

If you choose to go to a western medicine physician, which you are not obligated to do. If you go to a hospital emergency room and the Dr prescribes something you can refuse it and ask for rhino horn. They may not give it to you, but that doesn't keep you from seeking it out elsewhere. The only times were you may be forced to take western medicine is when you are unconscious and it is necessary to save your life, or when you are a child and it is necessary to save your life. In the case of children, care can still be refused up to a point on religious grounds.

 

 

 

Is it though? There is an entire part of mainstream American subculture that does measure status by those things, excluding the actual closed communities and groups that do measure "true wealth" by those things.

 

 

I think you are just smelling your own farts.

 

Yeah...drop in a bucket examples there. I'm an American who's first language is Afrikaans, wouldn't be calling Columbus little Johannesburg anytime soon.

 

Spanish speakers in Spain and Mexico can understand one another. Just like how I can understand someone who speaks Dutch. Shit, Portuguese people can even understand people who speak Mexican Spanish.

[greg1647545532]

If you have evidence that those measures would make a meaningful and efficient impact I'd support them 100%. Until then, I vote and contribute to charity in accordance with what I believe is the best way to help my fellow man.

[cdk 4219]

Th CT6 is also made in Hamtramick (Detroit). Only the PHEV is imported from China.You are completely delusional if you think you can have large manufacturing facilities with only unskilled labor. This takes tool and die makers, machinists, programmers, engineers, etc. These are not exactly people who are standing in bread lines these days. There is a shortage of these skills in the market that is not fixed overnight.

 

Also, I don't think safety and environmental regulations should be bypassed/repealed in order to bring some of this plants back to the US.

 

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

 

How would you explain the skilled workforce of World War II? Were the women of this time taught these manufacturing skills in colleges before the war? Was there an over abundance of schooled engineers from the 30s waiting to manufacture tanks, planes, boats and such?

Maybe people were just more educated back then?

 

Skills can be taught to willing people with some pride.

[Mallard]

How would you explain the skilled workforce of World War II? Were the women of this time taught these manufacturing skills in colleges before the war? Was there an over abundance of schooled engineers from the 30s waiting to manufacture tanks, planes, boats and such?

Maybe people were just more educated back then?

 

Skills can be taught to willing people with some pride.

On the job training for Rosie the Riviter is easy. On the job training for someone that makes tools and dies, programs welding robots, CNC lathes/mills/etc is not, and it's a hell of a high risk for a business to take. During the war there was much more manual labor, where adding more people meant increasing your output, and they could have varying skills. These days it's much more automated, the throughput is much higher, and the tolerances are much higher. Adding muscle doesn't mean you can make more.

 

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

[greg1647545532]

Anyone else excited for a war in Syria?

[Geeto67]

Anyone else excited for a war in Syria?

 

I think Country Joe and the Fish need to update the "fixin' to die rag".

 

 

(I don't expect anybody to get that reference).

[BStowers023]

Anyone else excited for a war in Syria?

 

 

I figured you'd be on board. Unless you're okay with Assad gassing children.

[greg1647545532]

I figured you'd be on board. Unless you're okay with Assad gassing children.

 

There's a lot of things I'm not OK with that I understand we don't have the power to do anything about. For instance, you procreating scares the shit out of me, but what can we do?

[Geeto67]

There's a lot of things I'm not OK with that I understand we don't have the power to do anything about. For instance, you procreating scares the shit out of me, but what can we do?

 

[BStowers023]

There's a lot of things I'm not OK with that I understand we don't have the power to do anything about. For instance, you procreating scares the shit out of me, but what can we do?

 

You could kill me?

 

I'm not surprised by a totalitarian like yourself not wanting someone with different political beliefs than you having offspring.

 

In before you call me stupid and ignorant and blah blah blah because I'm not a soyboy pussy.

[BStowers023]

 

Hey, fat boy long time no talk. I'm surprised your arteries haven't failed yet you fat pile of worthless.

[Geeto67]

Hey, fat boy long time no talk. I'm surprised your arteries haven't failed yet you fat pile of worthless.

 

 

 

Serious question: if we go to war are you going to re-enlist? I mean you want to do something about it so bad, there's your chance....

 

 

(full disclosure: don't re-enlist).

[BStowers023]

 

 

Serious question: if we go to war are you going to re-enlist? I mean you want to do something about it so bad, there's your chance....

 

 

(full disclosure: don't re-enlist).

 

 

They wouldn't let me even if I tried. Too much metal in my body.

[greg1647545532]

You could kill me?

 

I'm not surprised by a totalitarian like yourself not wanting someone with different political beliefs than you having offspring.

 

In before you call me stupid and ignorant and blah blah blah because I'm not a soyboy pussy.

 

Oh Brandon, Brandon Brandon Brandon, sweetie... I've told you before, my deep desire to deride your very existence has nothing to do with your political views, and everything to do with the fact that you unironically call people "soyboy pussies." You're like the manbun of internet trolls and you don't even realize it.

[Geeesammy]

You're like the manbun of internet trolls and you don't even realize it.

 

Holy shit the truth here is overwhelming help I can't breathe LOOOOOOL

[BStowers023]

Holy shit the truth here is overwhelming help I can't breathe LOOOOOOL

 

THAT made you laugh? Jesus you're more a fucking loser than I thought.