BuckeyeROC Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 We'll see: https://www.musclecarsandtrucks.com/exclusive-seventh-generation-chevrolet-camaro-shelved/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 Ford's gonna buy GM. :gabe: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 Electric cars and self-driving garbage will be crammed down your throat even if you don't want it or there is infrastructure in place to support it, trust me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeROC Posted June 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 Electric cars and self-driving garbage will be crammed down your throat even if you don't want it or there is infrastructure in place to support it, trust me. I don't doubt that a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeROC Posted June 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 Ford's gonna buy GM. :gabe: LOL, I've owned Mustangs before, might again in the future, who knows. Or maybe a Challenger. If those cars make it into the electric and self driving era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 Electric cars and self-driving garbage will be crammed down your throat even if you don't want it or there is infrastructure in place to support it, trust me. while that is true...these are still businesses and the camaro will still be produced as long as a business model can still be made for it (i.e. if it makes money or makes good will GM is going to continue to do it). Even in 3rd place in the market share behind challenger and mustang the car is still one of GM's most profitable cars with the least amount of rebates. Even if it is a calf as compared to the SUV and Pickup cash cows, it's still a cash cow in it's own right. Whomever says 7th gen is being cancelled is full of it. If anything my money is on GM doubling down on the 7th gen to take back it's 2nd place spot from challenger. The 2 biggest drivers of sales away from camaro have been interior room (something I personally despise about the new camaro as well) and color choice (which dodge is killing it with the retro color and stripe packages). GM has played it too safe thus far - their car is the most expensive, has the greatest aftermarket support, and yet is the most boring to look at off the showroom floor. Come on chevy, lean into the camp a little like dodge did with the demon and hellcat - you have the better car, now market it better. give us something like the camaro "spider" (calling back to the corvair and Monza performance models), a fangs out mascot emblem and a strobe stripe made of black and white spider webs on a hugger orange, marina blue, or daytona yellow car would crush. You could even show a rumble/super bee mascot caught in it's web in the marketing. this shit writes itself. http://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/04/as-dodge-challenger-secures-lead-over-chevy-camaro-brand-is-determined-to-compete/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 The fact that the Camaro has had to endure embarassing refreshes in the face of a Chrysler product that is 12+ years old, and a Ford product that outsells it globally by a 2x-3x multiple, tells you something. The fact that Camaro's great Alpha platform and strong powertrain offerings can't help it is even more telling. I want to like the Camaro, but where it seems Ford and FCA know what they're doing and have a finished product that sells well...Camaro needs to be better. 2018 Sales (USA) 1. Ford Mustang | 75,842 | -7.4%*** 2. Dodge Challenger | 66,716 | +3.0% 3. Chevrolet Camaro | 50,963 | -25.0% ***add another 40-45k units sold around the world, where Camaro sold less than 2k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10phone2 Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 The cars are too expensive. Grant it, I have a project that is still on jackstands for years, but why spend that much money on a camaro when you can get a good running car, ls turbo, built for under 15k at most. I could be dead wrong, but go after the niche marcket to build excitement. No features, crank windows, a/c, v8 manual or automatic, etc for under 20-25k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeROC Posted June 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 The fact that the Camaro has had to endure embarassing refreshes in the face of a Chrysler product that is 12+ years old, and a Ford product that outsells it globally by a 2x-3x multiple, tells you something. The fact that Camaro's great Alpha platform and strong powertrain offerings can't help it is even more telling. I want to like the Camaro, but where it seems Ford and FCA know what they're doing and have a finished product that sells well...Camaro needs to be better. 2018 Sales (USA) 1. Ford Mustang | 75,842 | -7.4%*** 2. Dodge Challenger | 66,716 | +3.0% 3. Chevrolet Camaro | 50,963 | -25.0% ***add another 40-45k units sold around the world, where Camaro sold less than 2k. The 6th gen Camaro is the best car of the 3 in most ways. But one of its strengths is also a weakness when it comes to sales. The car is smaller and lighter than the Mustang and Challenger, but that also makes it less practical and tougher for people to fit into. Also, people don't seem to like the high beltline and smaller windows when it comes to visibility inside the car. I think the 19 corporate/pickup truck facelift was a HUGE mistake, it is fugly and was NOT well received. They hurried and cleaned it up for the 20, which is an improvement over the 19. I think they could have saved a TON of money and made the car look better simply making the SS look a bit more like the ZL1. Then you add in other factors: These cars aren't affordable anymore by many of the people who actually do want them (some younger people and older working people with families that may want the car for a toy). Millenials as a whole not giving a crap about performance cars or cars in general. CUV's flooding the market. EV's coming. Certain political agendas. I guess I don't need to tell you guys here, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeROC Posted June 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 The cars are too expensive. Grant it, I have a project that is still on jackstands for years, but why spend that much money on a camaro when you can get a good running car, ls turbo, built for under 15k at most. I could be dead wrong, but go after the niche marcket to build excitement. No features, crank windows, a/c, v8 manual or automatic, etc for under 20-25k. I've been saying for years, I think a budget minded ~$25k entry level V8 Camaro would sell comparably well. The problem is with all the factors against it, it probably wouldn't be profitable enough in today's environment. I don't think GM would ever price it that low and not sure they would even be able to now. The new for 2020 LT1 trim is a more budget minded entry level V8 they have coming out under the SS, but it still only knocks off ~$3k from the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 I don't know that you even need a budget level camaro....you just need to make the base level v8 camaro now sell at the same price as the challenger. the base challenger R/t is $34,545, and dodge runs a heck of a lot of promotions on it like the $250 a month leases and rebates. it's 375 hp, and the scat pak is 485hp and $39,245. A base 1ss Camaro runs $37, 495. Sure it makes 455hp, but to what end? You can literally see chevy's bean counters at work here - they are trying to attract the buyer between the R/t and the scat pak, but that's such a small margin they aren't hitting the target. If GM offered like a $3K rebate on a base 1SS camaro for anybody trading in a challenger or charger R/t or a mustang I think the sales would pick up right away. right now they offer a $2K rebate for anybody trading in a mustang but it is private offer only through dealers and I think only applies to the non-v8s. Other than that there is a $500 rebate and that's it. Meanwhile, dodge has multiple stack able rebates on all challengers ranging from $250 to $1000 and then you have this dealer offering $5K off an R/t chally: https://www.dupagechryslerdodgejeepram.com/inventory/new-2019-dodge-challenger-rt-rwd-coupe-2c3cdzbt6kh549590 There is nothing wrong with GM's product. In most ways the camaro is the better car than the challenger, and on par with the mustang. However, there is everything wrong with GM's pricing strategy and reluctance to issue rebates that most people can use. And so dodge eats chevy's lunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Sweet Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 Electric cars and self-driving garbage will be crammed down your throat even if you don't want it or there is infrastructure in place to support it, trust me. Sad, but true. There's no way, NO WAY, that this autonomous nonsense is feasible anytime in the next century. Even if it could be a halfway realistic possibility, I still think it's a ridiculous idea. But GM (and other auto manufacturers) are committed to blowing a shit ton of money on this idea of a self-driving world. It's crazy, but they want to appear like they are progressive (plus feeling pressure from the EPA I'm sure) and they are taking it too far IMO. The 6th gen Camaro is the best car of the 3 in most ways. But one of its strengths is also a weakness when it comes to sales. The car is smaller and lighter than the Mustang and Challenger, but that also makes it less practical and tougher for people to fit into. Also, people don't seem to like the high beltline and smaller windows when it comes to visibility inside the car. I think the 19 corporate/pickup truck facelift was a HUGE mistake, it is fugly and was NOT well received. They hurried and cleaned it up for the 20, which is an improvement over the 19. I think they could have saved a TON of money and made the car look better simply making the SS look a bit more like the ZL1. Then you add in other factors: These cars aren't affordable anymore by many of the people who actually do want them (some younger people and older working people with families that may want the car for a toy). Millenials as a whole not giving a crap about performance cars or cars in general. CUV's flooding the market. EV's coming. Certain political agendas. I guess I don't need to tell you guys here, you know. Agreed on all points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10phone2 Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 34k for a loan that has no resell value. no way. GM needs to look at what the average car guy spends per month and build a cheap, fun v8 to fit within that budget for a montly payment. Have a carb option or make the ecu tunable from the factor if only th epa wasn't the epa. This maybe a long shot, but maybe someone wagner can pass a word about a gm product need to someone that can make it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10phone2 Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 Sad, but true. There's no way, NO WAY, that this autonomous nonsense is feasible anytime in the next century. Even if it could be a halfway realistic possibility, I still think it's a ridiculous idea. But GM (and other auto manufacturers) are committed to blowing a shit ton of money on this idea of a self-driving world. It's crazy, but they want to appear like they are progressive (plus feeling pressure from the EPA I'm sure) and they are taking it too far IMO. Agreed on all points. Razor Ramon for the win. Maybe the last true hair slicked back person of our time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordell Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 34k for a loan that has no resell value. no way. GM needs to look at what the average car guy spends per month and build a cheap, fun v8 to fit within that budget for a montly payment. Have a carb option or make the ecu tunable from the factor if only th epa wasn't the epa. This maybe a long shot, but maybe someone wagner can pass a word about a gm product need to someone that can make it happen. Seriously Dude? You're smart enough to know even if GM wanted to do either of those things they wouldn't meet current vehicle standards. As much as I do really like the new Camaro, and consider buying one every time I work on them, they are just not practical, not affordable, and just impossible to justify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordell Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 Sad, but true. There's no way, NO WAY, that this autonomous nonsense is feasible anytime in the next century. Even if it could be a halfway realistic possibility, I still think it's a ridiculous idea. But GM (and other auto manufacturers) are committed to blowing a shit ton of money on this idea of a self-driving world. It's crazy, but they want to appear like they are progressive (plus feeling pressure from the EPA I'm sure) and they are taking it too far IMO. Hate to say it but it actually is. I don't want it anymore then the next guy, but if people keep voting for liberal fucktards that want to control every aspect of your life then things like this and more will continue to get popularized and crammed down your throat in the name of "it's good for you". Ever head Mary Barra say "We are working towards a crash free, emission friendly, future" (I'm paraphrasing)? You're getting the shit and they don't care if you want it or not. If you don't believe it you better wake the fuck up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssFo Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 My 2019 will just go up in price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 ... but if people keep voting for liberal fucktards that want to control every aspect of your life then things like this and more will continue to get popularized and crammed down your throat in the name of "it's good for you". Ever head Mary Barra say "We are working towards a crash free, emission friendly, future" (I'm paraphrasing)? You're getting the shit and they don't care if you want it or not. If you don't believe it you better wake the fuck up. Not to turn this into the political thread, but since you brought it up - most of the autonomous regulation is bipartisan and slightly conservative leaning. A lot of silicon valley is getting a pass on the development of this more so than any other companies in the name of "free market capitalism" - not progressive legislation that wants to hold the companies accountable for the accidents they cause. Silicon valley as a whole is right leaning to begin with on this issues of business and technology, so much so it has it's own name: cyberlibertarianism. A lot of the traditional organizational supporters of democrats like the teamsters union are against self driving tech. This idea that self driving cars are the tool of the hippie liberals is just garbage built on stereotypes, not actual policy or what's really happening in the legislative world. It's seems like nonsense rush limbaugh would say just to get raitings. https://www.autonews.com/article/20140504/OEM06/305059996/politics-begins-to-steer-driverless-car-s-future https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/09/how-self-driving-cars-could-ruin-the-american-city/569518/ https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-self-driving-politics-20171121-story.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Sweet Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 Hate to say it but it actually is. I don't want it anymore then the next guy, but if people keep voting for liberal fucktards that want to control every aspect of your life then things like this and more will continue to get popularized and crammed down your throat in the name of "it's good for you". Ever head Mary Barra say "We are working towards a crash free, emission friendly, future" (I'm paraphrasing)? You're getting the shit and they don't care if you want it or not. If you don't believe it you better wake the fuck up. I don't see how they can integrate autonomous vehicles into society unless they completely ban regular cars/trucks. It's either all, or none. So unless they make it illegal to drive your own vehicle, we're a longggggg way from that ever happening. I really don't think the majority of America wants self driving cars. The automakers might listen to some halfwit teenage fuckwads in a focus group that talk about how great autonomous vehicles would be, but I think (hope?) that's the exception and not the norm. At some point, the people will speak loud and clear and the automakers will have to comply. The EPA can suck it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 I don't see how they can integrate autonomous vehicles into society read this: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/09/how-self-driving-cars-could-ruin-the-american-city/569518/ The EPA can suck it. I don't think the EPA is the driver of any of this tech. yes there are environmental considerations, and to a larger degree the EPA is in support of autonomous public transport as it would yield a much larger efficiency, I don't know that they are completely on board with individual autonomous tech. Yes they have seen as much as 10% reduction in emissions during testing, but that is only if the companies that control the tech decide to do that - which the EPA has little power to compel them other than to offer incentive to the mfg's to voluntary comply by issuing them credits if they do. https://www.autoblog.com/2016/03/24/study-autonomous-vehicles-improve-mpg-epa-tests/ It's a shame that Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan set the EPA up to be the enemy of the performance auto industry, because right now we have faster cars that are cleaner than they have ever been as proof that we can have speed and a clean environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Brian Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 the base challenger R/t is $34,545, and dodge runs a heck of a lot of promotions on it like the $250 a month leases and rebates. it's 375 hp, and the scat pak is 485hp and $39,245. A base 1ss Camaro runs $37, 495. Sure it makes 455hp, but to what end? You can literally see chevy's bean counters at work here - they are trying to attract the buyer between the R/t and the scat pak, but that's such a small margin they aren't hitting the target. I'll take a light, nimble Camaro over a Dodge's tugboat at the cost of 30 little horsepower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 The 6th gen Camaro is the best car of the 3 in most ways. But one of its strengths is also a weakness when it comes to sales. The car is smaller and lighter than the Mustang and Challenger, but that also makes it less practical and tougher for people to fit into. Also, people don't seem to like the high beltline and smaller windows when it comes to visibility inside the car. Its dimensionally identical to a s550 on the outside. Its significantly smaller inside, like, much smaller. To elaborate, like, wtf were they smoking to make it so small when the mustang is huge small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillbot Posted June 26, 2019 Report Share Posted June 26, 2019 I'll take a light, nimble Camaro over a Dodge's tugboat at the cost of 30 little horsepower. But apparently most buyers wouldn’t. If I were to shop again I’d pick another scat pack over a camaro any day. More power, comfy, an actual useable vehicle that you can see out of and cost competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseyctsv Posted June 26, 2019 Report Share Posted June 26, 2019 GM’s pricing strategy is killing the Camaro. They make more per Camaro than Dodge does with the Challenger and Ford does with the Mustang. They refuse to discount the car due to the R and D invested I assume. Meanwhile Dodge discounts the crap out of the Challenger - why not they paid off the 20+ year old platform years ago. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Brian Posted June 26, 2019 Report Share Posted June 26, 2019 But apparently most buyers wouldn’t. If I were to shop again I’d pick another scat pack over a camaro any day. More power, comfy, an actual useable vehicle that you can see out of and cost competitive. More power but 400lbs heavier. Congrats on being slower at everything still. Also, Challenger visibility is just as bad, so.. you're dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.