General Motors strike

[Geeesammy]

I can't imagine being 5 figures in student debt to only make $20/hr tops

[Geeto67]

Fuck optics. You tell me how some 18 year old apprentice is more qualified to plug in my pencil sharpener when I've been around over twice as long. What the hell kind of insurance policy dictates that you have to be union in order to connect a computer, and what business owner in their right mind would accede to such limitations? No. Either find a better argument, or admit that this level of ass-hattery is simply indefensible.

 

it's not about qualifications, sometimes it's about contracts. The company may have a contract with a maintenance company for facilities work, and that company is covered by their own union. The company may want to exclude the functions of that company from the union contract of it's own employees to protect itself. So you end up with having to wait for maintenance to plug something in.

 

Sometimes it's about insurance where the company or the subcontractor for facilities's premises liability policies might require that all electrical functions be handled by a licensed electrician and since it is a union shop - that's how it sorts out, it's not requiring a union person, just a designated qualified person. Point is, you at the end of this complex pipeline don't see what is going on and only get told some nonsense about how you aren't allowed to plug in something at your desk because "union".

 

And sometimes they just require it because they don't really want you plugging in a toaster or a coffeemaker at your desk and they want to make it tough for you to do so bu giving someone else the authority to plug stuff in.

 

it's easy to blame the union, because again, it looks like they are to blame, but they may not be and you may not have all the information. Years ago when I used to still litigate cases I did premesis liability defense for a lot of franchise businesses. You would be surprised at how many insurance companies get involved in a case where you slip and fall in an icy mcdonalds parking lot. It doubles if you have a car accident in that same lot as well due to icy conditions. I remember one where a guy slid from the street into a wendy's parking lot and into the side of the building - you had the business's insurance, the landlords insurance, the maintenance company's insurance, the state, and the motorists insurance all for a 30mph icy slide into an empty building.

 

As for role definition, again... there's a difference between abusing classifications and setting people up to fail, versus just being pedantic. Not being allowed to throw out your own trash? My parents made me do that by the time I was three years old. That some union boss is going to come over and bitch me out, claiming I'm taking someone else's job away by not being a slob, is beyond ludicrous. There are legitimate reason for unions, but defending simple manners and cleanliness is not one of them.

 

unions are a product of their own environment. You had companies that abused their workers through the whole industrial revolution, and then came employment laws, so large companies had to get "sneaky" and pedantic to get around those laws which gave rise to the need for unions to advocate for the workers collectively. You want to blame the union for being pedantic, but that is how they had to get because there is always someone in upper management looking for that loophole that will allow them to make slightly more money at the expense of the worker.

 

Unions are around to defend the indefensible and protect idiots through "justifcation"

 

When I worked at Disney one of the union reps threatened me because I wouldn't change my story for an incident report. The union worker fucked up and got himself and another person hurt in the kitchen, its not my job to protect them.

 

Told my manager about it and he in a round about way said there was nothing he could do "because of the union and what they do".

 

I get that some workers might need protections from these big scary companies. How about if the company sucks you don't work for them? I know that is personal accountability and all, but I've left jobs that sucked when they did shady stuff and I didn't die....

 

Nobody is saying that unions aren't infallible and incorruptible, yes they have their own problems too, and are often the same problems as the company. This isn't a good guy bad guy situation where the big corporation is always the bad guy and the worker is always the underdog good guy. This is more a complex relationship where sometimes both are the good guy and sometimes both are the bad guy, and even cases were sometimes you get a weird situation. At the end of the day, there will always be a need for a union as long as workers need an advocate where their interests are adverse to the company and they don't individually have the leverage to advocate for themselves.

 

And yes I agree, if your union is doing shady shit, speak out about it. If your company is doing shady shit, speak out about it and sometimes yes leave that company.

[ODoyle]

What. The. Fuck?

[zeitgeist57]

If your union is doing shady shit, speak out about it. If your company is doing shady shit, speak out about it and sometimes yes leave that company.

 

All that needs to be said about GM and UAW.

 

Be Kerry: Unions are helpful, until they aren't.

[10phone2]

showhbk..... thats all you got bud. Cordell sitting pretty in this one.

[ShowHBK]

showhbk..... thats all you got bud. Cordell sitting pretty in this one.

 

I had my fun... Now i'm done. The victory was getting this shit show put in the Kitchen and away from general discussion where it belongs. I was able to experiment with the Post lengths of 15,000 Characters, and discover an amazing quote glitch in posts.

 

Say what you want to say... but my personal victory has already been established. Cordell was only wrong about my snickering in a "cubical"... I quit that job 4 years ago... I was Laughing my ASS off in my office.

 

Anyways.. Yall bicker like children over stupid stuff and it makes me sad that the community never gets a chance to grow and welcome now members because everyone is too busy arguing over stupid shit. Some people got angry at their employers, GM made some terrible cars and some terrible business decisions. and now people are using their "Unions" to allow pensions for people who's job is "To turn on the Lights"...and THIS is why America ranks 24th in the world in Education... because we argue about stupid shit #MicDrop

[Geeto67]

Be Kerry: Unions are helpful, until they aren't.

 

Be clay: be smart enough to know that a lot of these things are dependent on the situation but instead of adding meaningful insight to the conversation play to an audience with pithy nonsense.

 

 

I had my fun... Now i'm done. The victory was getting this shit show put in the Kitchen and away from general discussion where it belongs.

How does it "belong" in the kitchen? it was a civil conversation where people were expressing their views - not really a lot of name calling or chest puffing.

 

 

Anyways.. Yall bicker like children over stupid stuff and it makes me sad that the community never gets a chance to grow and welcome now members because everyone is too busy arguing over stupid shit. Some people got angry at their employers, GM made some terrible cars and some terrible business decisions. and now people are using their "Unions" to allow pensions for people who's job is "To turn on the Lights"...and THIS is why America ranks 24th in the world in Education... because we argue about stupid shit #MicDrop

 

Claim some moral bullshit victory, but really it boils down to you having your own opinion and because you disagreed you felt the need to do the selfish thing and blow that shit up despite the other participants having a civil and insightful conversation.

 

Whether you agree or not, it's important to have these conversations. Yes you aren't going to "change" anybody's mind - change has to come from within - but interaction with people about topics helps people evolve and develop empathy. Having a discussion about these sorts of topics where multiple view points are expressed is how people grow and seek knowledge, being challenged on what you say or believe is necessary. When you frustrate that discussion because you are uncomfortable with it, or because you disagree you are just hurting all those who found value in the conversation for your selfish ends. Remember this is a communication medium - it was built exactly for this type of interaction. Say what you want about my long posts, but at least I make an effort to contribute and interact.

 

here is the way in which I challenge you: how is this stupid shit? If you are a worker in america, how unions interact with the companies with which they negotiate affects you. Maybe it's not directly, but certainly indirectly through raising the standard of living or helping employment laws get passed. If you have health insurance through your employer you have a union to thank for that: the federal government exempted employer-paid health benefits from wage controls and income tax as a way to keep manufacturing job unions from striking post WWII, thus creating a demand for employers to provide it as a form of compensation. Considering every time a large union strikes it moves the needle on employee rights in this country I would say discussing the various viewpoints doesn't seem like stupid shit at all.

[Cordell]

Not sure why I read Kerry’s last post, but I agree with most of it. Scary huh?

 

I didn’t quote it because this thread is now full of worthless bullshit thanks to ShowHBK. Think I’m going to go on a deletion spree.

[Cordell]

I had my fun... Now i'm done. The victory was getting this shit show put in the Kitchen and away from general discussion where it belongs. I was able to experiment with the Post lengths of 15,000 Characters, and discover an amazing quote glitch in posts.

 

Say what you want to say... but my personal victory has already been established. Cordell was only wrong about my snickering in a "cubical"... I quit that job 4 years ago... I was Laughing my ASS off in my office.

 

Anyways.. Yall bicker like children over stupid stuff and it makes me sad that the community never gets a chance to grow and welcome now members because everyone is too busy arguing over stupid shit. Some people got angry at their employers, GM made some terrible cars and some terrible business decisions. and now people are using their "Unions" to allow pensions for people who's job is "To turn on the Lights"...and THIS is why America ranks 24th in the world in Education... because we argue about stupid shit #MicDrop

 

 

You are officially more annoying then Kerry, who at least tries to speak to his point. Not post retarded ass bullshit just to clutter a thread. I should’ve expected no less. I thought maybe you had some extreme offensive view that would piss everyone off, but alas you failed.

[Cordell]

Anyway, triple post bitches.

 

Doesn’t look like there’s any end in sight for this strike right now. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Geeto67]

Anyway, triple post bitches.

 

Doesn’t look like there’s any end in sight for this strike right now. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

me too.

 

From an insider's perspective in the supply chain - how is it still looking for warranty work? has it started to backlog yet?

[ShowHBK]

You are officially more annoying then Kerry, who at least tries to speak to his point. Not post retarded ass bullshit just to clutter a thread. I should’ve expected no less. I thought maybe you had some extreme offensive view that would piss everyone off, but alas you failed.

 

No joke man, don't be butt hurt that you put a thread into the Kitchen of your own free will. You had the choice to NOT honor my request, after you knew full well that the last three threads I posted in (that were in the Kitchen) I spamed. Don't get mad at me for not knowing where it was going from the start.

 

I would 100% disagree that i'm annoying in any aspect... In fact, you thanked me for testing your scrolling skills brushing me off like I did nothing to inconvenience you... now your saying i'm annoying. What's it going to be man? your sending me more mixed signals than a liberal college girl at a party... I mean, sure she is cute and your into her, but you can't tell if she is looking at you from across the room, or the exit, because your standing next to the door.

 

AND I will state again... NO RULES OF CR WERE VIOLATED IN THE MAKING OF MY POSTS. I was never interested in torpedoing the thread from the start... I just like messing around and having a little fun at the expense of the rules of the Kitchen. If you don't like my experiments, then delete my posts and move the damn thread back into the general section and never address what I did. But, it seems to bother you... so why move it in the first place? At the very least we can shit sling in here...idk man... When your all chill, meet me at Red Lobster... the first drink is on me friend <== Not sarcasm... I would get a drink with you. I like your car BTW <3

[Mallard]

me too.

 

 

 

From an insider's perspective in the supply chain - how is it still looking for warranty work? has it started to backlog yet?

Going to depend on the exact part and model year of the vehicle. Service parts are built up and held in stock, but on a newly launched vehicle, or a high demand part there can be low numbers of parts available.

 

For example, my in-laws bought a newly redesigned RAV4 and had a rock chip on the windshield within the first week. No aftermarket available, glass had to come straight from Toyota. If the assembly plant were shut down, glass supplier on hold, delivery could have taken a while.

 

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[2 Sweet]

HBK, you're trying too hard.

[ShowHBK]

HBK, you're trying too hard.

 

I'm not very good at this whole..."INTERNET" thing

[Otis Nice]

Lowell. Edited October 8, 2019 by Otis Nice

[Crossle]

We felt the effect of the strike last week. Needed a part, couldn't get it, had to inform customer of the situation and they are still waiting on said part. Car is drivable for now.

[Cordell]

I figure the Cruze I have in my bay now will be a while before I can fix it. Didn’t know if it needed pistons or a complete engine until I tore it down. It needs pistons, couldn’t drive it the way it was anyway, but now I have a big paper weight to deal with until my parts department can find everything needed to put it together.

[Geeto67]

I figure the Cruze I have in my bay now will be a while before I can fix it. Didn’t know if it needed pistons or a complete engine until I tore it down. It needs pistons, couldn’t drive it the way it was anyway, but now I have a big paper weight to deal with until my parts department can find everything needed to put it together.

 

so how does that work - just have to go hat in hand to the other dealers for their inventory and work out a trade? or just wait till parts trickle in slowly?

[Mallard]

We felt the effect of the strike last week. Needed a part, couldn't get it, had to inform customer of the situation and they are still waiting on said part. Car is drivable for now.

A friend of mine with a GM car has been waiting on a part for 3 weeks already.

 

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[Mallard]

so how does that work - just have to go hat in hand to the other dealers for their inventory and work out a trade? or just wait till parts trickle in slowly?

I doubt dealers keep replacenent pistons in stock. More than likely they come from a regional parts center, which all dealers are going to pull from. It didnt even occur to me that people at those centers are UAW, and if so, even if they're sitting on a shelf you're not getting anything until this is over. The only alternative is finding used parts at a junkyard.

 

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[Cordell]

so how does that work - just have to go hat in hand to the other dealers for their inventory and work out a trade? or just wait till parts trickle in slowly?

 

I doubt dealers keep replacenent pistons in stock. More than likely they come from a regional parts center, which all dealers are going to pull from. It didnt even occur to me that people at those centers are UAW, and if so, even if they're sitting on a shelf you're not getting anything until this is over. The only alternative is finding used parts at a junkyard.

 

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Mallard is partially right. Supposedly they’re making the warehouse management send out parts. Some stuff still trickles in via FedEx. Geeto is right in that we are still trading with other dealers, kind of. Some are refusing to give up their inventory, including us to certain places. It’s a mess.

[mrs.cos]

Wooo.. I have a lot to catch up on..

So, I get a rare post about something going on.

 

My dad and my aunt are still employed (and VERY near retirement) from GM.

 

I quit GM back in 2006, shortly before Mansfield closed.

 

My dad is walking the picket line today. He walks it Every Tuesday.

 

My Uncle was part of the National Committee in the 70-90's for renegotiations (in other words, he was one of the guys negotiating directly with GM)

 

I have LOTS of friends still employed (currently striking), I have many family members retired. My sister took a buyout about 8 years ago (maths are hard, not totally sure when.. but it was when Delphis was closing plants)

 

So.. I have LOTS of ins and outs of all of this.

 

Final note.

 

 

I fucking HATE GENERAL MOTORS AND THE UAW. I quit because of the golden handcuffs they offer.

 

My dad (a tool and die maker) has been ROYALLY screwed over retirement wise since he was semi-forced to transfer halfway across the country and told he would get to carry on his seniority/retirement date at the new plant. They didnt. They took away 5 years of his life/time towards retirement, so he's having to work an extra 5 years due to pension shit and the union/gm lying to him ..

 

its a whole story, i dont feel like getting into, just know that my dad lives 6 hours away from the place his entire family has lived since the 40's, and he's stuck on second shift and works mandatory satrudays and sundays most week, and sometimes doesnt have a day off for weeks on end.

 

Also - this contract has NOTHING that will help him with this retirement issue and he will be able to retire at 72 now, instead of 67.

 

 

Im adding responses to the quotes, and am willing to answer as many questions as I can.

 

 

 

If you think anyone, I mean ANYONE should be paid 100K+bennies (great bennies too) to bolt on water pumps for 8 hours a day, you are part of the problem. Period.

 

I promise you.. thats not all I did; i hated every minute of every fucking day there. I worked in two different plants. I worked for Delphi in Dayton, where i made the brakes for basilly all of hte cars for GM.. From Pistons, to calipers, to the whole brake assembly. Im permanently injured, (while minor) from the work i did.

 

the most I ever made was $67K, and they are operating under the same contract (basiclly) that was in place when i left in 2006. There has been no "raises". I worked Mandatory Saturdays and overtime most nights.

I worked EASILY 60 hours+ a week, on fucking miserable 2nd shift.

 

I was a "Temp" for 2+ years.. That meant No vacation, No sick days, no benefits. You missed a day, you were wrote up. You had a sick kid.. hope your significant other could take care fo them, You risked losing your job for EVERYTHING that could possibly go wrong in your life.

Why? Because you were a temp. THIS is a HUGE sticking point for the contract right now. They want some sort of guarantee for those employees to be hired on as full-time employees.

 

 

Do any GM Assembly Line workers make 6 figures? I highly doubt that.

 

so do they (that last link is really interesting):

 

https://www.indeed.com/cmp/General-Motors/salaries?job_category=manufacturing

 

https://www.careerbliss.com/gmc/salaries/assembly-line-worker/

 

https://www.payscale.com/career-news/2008/12/are-ford-workers-really-paid-73-an-hour

 

If you all wanna know what they make an hour-Look at the actual contract. Its not hard to find. Ive read this book 4 times in my life.

https://uaw.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/64171_UAW-GM-Hourly-Highlights-Revp-11-final.pdf

 

You are Paid based on the Type of Job you have.. Fork Truck drivers make more than line people, Line Leaders make a bit more as well.

Skilled trades are paid better as well because they are EDUCATED. They have degrees, certifications, ect.

 

I have friends who have gone through the "education" programs to get into the skilled trades, but GM has put a "hold" on these things, so while they have finished their classes, they dont have a journeymans card or anything that would help them outside of the plant because GM doesnt want to convert them, despite training them. That, i find, very weird.

 

My experience with how unions operate at GM, I was sent to GM Powertrain in Defiance to install and calibrate a machine they had moved. I needed the machine plugged into a 110v wall outlet in order to turn the machine on. I was not allowed to plug in the machine because of union rules. My company scheduled me 2 weeks out, they knew I was coming for 2 weeks. After 3 hours, someone finally came by and plugged the machine in for me.

 

I asked what would happen had I plugged in the machine myself. I was told that if I did, the electrician could file a grievance against me (which would have been a certainty), and I would be walked out for the remainder of the day. The electrician would get paid their regular 8 hour shift, plus 8 more hours for the "work I was taking from them", all for plugging in a machine to a standard outlet. Yeah, unions can go fuck themselves.

Bullshit.

Im calling complete bullshit. The only thing i can even remotely fathom is that someone dropped the ball on actually calling an electrition, or that there was more setup than you are letting on. Its also possible that there was another reason you werent allowed to do it, (such as a safety factory of stuff around the machines- im spitballing here) and they wanted to make sure your equipment wouldnt be fucked up by being plugged into a wrong outlet.

 

however, im still calling bullshit.

 

I had a friend that started a design job at a union. He walked into his office on the first day and his computer was sitting there not hooked up. So he started to put it together, someone let him know he can't do that.

 

He sat there for 3 weeks waiting on someone to plug his computer in.

 

Efficiency FTW!

Bullshit again. This is just pure bullshit.

For the techs getting dicked, this isn’t UAW’s fault, it’s GM’s fault and your fault for letting them walk all over you.

 

God forbid UAW asks for better wages and benefits right!

While this is kinda true, its not totally true.

I firmly believe that part of all of this is because there is a corruption investigation into the UAW President, and some of his cronies as a diversion tactic as well.

 

GM has been making money HAND OVER FIST, so they arent all right either.

 

I have so much more i could type up about all of this, but its 2am, and i have to work in a few hours.

[aussiek2000]

so how does that work - just have to go hat in hand to the other dealers for their inventory and work out a trade? or just wait till parts trickle in slowly?

 

A friend of mine with a GM car has been waiting on a part for 3 weeks already.

 

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Mallard is partially right. Supposedly they’re making the warehouse management send out parts. Some stuff still trickles in via FedEx. Geeto is right in that we are still trading with other dealers, kind of. Some are refusing to give up their inventory, including us to certain places. It’s a mess.

 

we have some cars that have been waiting for parts for over a month. I just did a turbo job that was there for a month exactly.

 

On warranty work, if something is driveable we let the customer take it. If its not, they may or may not get a loaner depending if we have one back.

 

Non-warranty repairs have been getting a lot of aftermarket parts. May bite me in the ass, but I have to get paid. Can't stand around all day.

[gillbot]

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