☆~Sleepy Joe 2021~☆

[zeitgeist57]

Two crises that we're going to be dealing with for years to come:

1) Employment - getting millions of people off of $750 government unemployment payments and into lower-paying but economically-vital jobs, WITHOUT causing a U.S. economic correction.

2) Resource/supply chain control - after decades of letting China do the economic "dirty-work" of the world's consumerism, we're now in a position where China controls production of virtually every product the world needs: even if they don't build it, they likely control the raw materials or supply of products needed for finished goods.

 

Both of these are of our own doing, and neither will be easy to control if we try to reinstitute balance.

[wagner]

Two crises that we're going to be dealing with for years to come:

1) Employment - getting millions of people off of $750 government unemployment payments and into lower-paying but economically-vital jobs, WITHOUT causing a U.S. economic correction.

2) Resource/supply chain control - after decades of letting China do the economic "dirty-work" of the world's consumerism, we're now in a position where China controls production of virtually every product the world needs: even if they don't build it, they likely control the raw materials or supply of products needed for finished goods.

 

Both of these are of our own doing, and neither will be easy to control if we try to reinstitute balance.

 

Well, it looks like one problem would solve the other, BUT it would require some sacrifice and other hardships, and as COVID 19 has proven, most in America won't tollerate that.

 

The China problem has been boiling for a while and is now spilling onto the stove. That coutnry is activitly trying to cripple the United States and people here just spread their ass cheeks more and say "yes daddy"

[Tractor]

It's crazy that we've been talking about this exact problem with China since at least the early '90s and no one's bothered to do anything to curb it. Computer chips are a perfect example, why can't those be made here? I'm not thinking a Chinese dude is over there making them. We can't have advanced robotics? I guess that would make the unions angry lol.

 

When I walk by the shelves in the beach themed shit stores here I think why is all this shit made in Asian countries. There's no reason CNC machines can't cut out a bunch of this wooden shit and paint it all beachy right here in the US.

[smokinHawk1647545499]

It's crazy that we've been talking about this exact problem with China since at least the early '90s and no one's bothered to do anything to curb it. Computer chips are a perfect example, why can't those be made here? I'm not thinking a Chinese dude is over there making them. We can't have advanced robotics? I guess that would make the unions angry lol.

The chips are built in Taiwan (not to say the materials come from the red flag)

Edit: unless your one of those that view Taiwan a part of China to be reunited under the control of the ccp

Edited June 3, 2021 by smokinHawk

[greg1647545532]

The entire rest of the supply chain is in China, though. You can make chips in America but those chips go into products with thousands of other components, accessories, and packaging.

 

If you're an American company making semi-conductors with robotics and you have an opportunity to move that facility to China where getting those semi-conductors into finished products is going to involve local trucking instead of international shipping, you'd be a fool not to. That's just smart business.

 

It's amazing how often unions get blamed for the work of capitalists.

[Tractor]

I do realize its more complicated than simply "computer chips", and my point since you missed it as usual, was that things could and should have been built here for decades, we did lead industry post WWII since most of the rest of the world was in ruins or undeveloped. Its just annoying that we didn't bother to solve our factory problems with technology and instead just shipped the work to places that amount to slave labor.

 

Unions do get blame, I grew up on the Ohio river with 90% of my relatives all union. I also watched as union workers sat outside of plants for decades with their signs protesting, (I bet they are still at Ormet near Hannibal, OH with their little camp.) Politian's always promise to "bring back their jobs", fuck that just keep any manufacturing within the confines of the US. There will always be a subset of the population who can't work for wages worth earning, those people could probably be supported by the robots by now if we would have bothered to do it.

 

But, maybe its global social engineering at work. I guess to the big boys it would be much better if we can slowly update the rest of the world to the point that they all buy toilet paper and cell phones rather than have 20% affording it and 80% starving.

 

I think all sides have good points and the issue is a massive one, so big that nearly anything we say will be correct to a degree, but still not the whole picture.

[greg1647545532]

I do realize its more complicated than simply "computer chips", and my point since you missed it as usual, was that things could and should have been built here for decades, we did lead industry post WWII since most of the rest of the world was in ruins or undeveloped. Its just annoying that we didn't bother to solve our factory problems with technology and instead just shipped the work to places that amount to slave labor.

 

Glad you got your dig in against me. I'm suitably hurt.

 

Do you remember the "Buy American" campaigns from the 80s? This isn't a new sentiment. Ironically, those were closely tied to union pride as I recall, and many were funded by the UAW and the like.

 

But who's going to stop production from moving overseas? The government? We don't do that in this country. The Republican party especially was all-in on global production right up until Donald Trump reinvented protectionism with his tariffs. So here we are.

 

Personally, I think the current manufacturing struggles are a result of JIT supply chains and not necessarily where things are produced. It's all well and good not to carry any local inventory to save money until the supply chain hiccups. Then JIT looks incredibly short-sighted.

[Tractor]

Glad you got your dig in against me. I'm suitably hurt.

 

But who's going to stop production from moving overseas? The government? We don't do that in this country. The Republican party especially was all-in on global production right up until Donald Trump reinvented protectionism with his tariffs. So here we are.

 

I think I remember a few other republicans trying tariffs. I remember something about Bush and peaches lol. Its interesting that republicans are the ones trying to push the economics back to the US (at least on paper) and the democrats are the ones who undo those tariffs and push the economics elsewhere even though the unions pretty much universally support them. It can be said that both sides voting bases are blinded by their own ideologies. This is something that has been annoying me more as I age.

[Tractor]

Personally, I think the current manufacturing struggles are a result of JIT supply chains and not necessarily where things are produced. It's all well and good not to carry any local inventory to save money until the supply chain hiccups. Then JIT looks incredibly short-sighted.

 

 

I think your right there, JIT was a concern to me when I heard the term a few years back and now we've seen how that works out when even small things effect the system.

[greg1647545532]

I think I remember a few other republicans trying tariffs. I remember something about Bush and peaches lol. Its interesting that republicans are the ones trying to push the economics back to the US (at least on paper) and the democrats are the ones who undo those tariffs and push the economics elsewhere even though the unions pretty much universally support them. It can be said that both sides voting bases are blinded by their own ideologies. This is something that has been annoying me more as I age.

 

True, Bush tried it with steel. I'd forgotten that.

 

The parties have indeed flipped on tariffs, with Democrats still being in favor of them in as late as those 2002 tariffs and Republicans rejecting them at the time as being anti-free trade. I will say, I think Democrats were wrong to be in favor of tariffs for decades, and Republicans are wrong to pivot to being in favor of them now. And that's not me being ideological, that's just me listening to the consensus of economists, who say that there's no evidence that they work. I'm a simple man that way.

 

Both parties do promote policies that intend to encourage domestic production. Democrats push hard for grants and loans to promote manufacturing in burgeoning industries (e.g. the Green New Deal) while Republicans never met a tax break they didn't like, even if it's for a dying industry that has no hope of recovery (e.g. coal). Both parties will bend over and take it up the ass from corporate interests.

 

But neither party has a plan for, say, bringing iPhone production back to the US, because that ship has sailed. I don't think any government policy can bring that sort of manufacturing here short of full-on socialism, where the government would own the means of production. And full-on socialists don't have any political power here.

[gillbot]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/gm-raises-forecast-says-chip-shortage-not-as-bad-as-feared/ar-AAKFrj6

 

GM lifts forecast as chip shortage eases, stock hits record

[Tractor]

Sometimes the fuckers can work together.

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/08/1004600001/the-senate-passes-a-bill-to-encourage-tech-competition-especially-with-china

[zeitgeist57]

I appreciate this pages' dialogue, and will certainly agree it's not just a "Made in China" issue...COVID has affected many supply-chain processes in North America as well, anyone with family, friends or a business interest in logistics/trucking will tell you of the shortage of people and the hasty movements back to a "next normal" as the country and world opens back up.

 

Not to change the topic, but given the nature of this thread:

 

It's interesting to see where both sides are coming after Kamala for the way she's not helping the Biden administration better manage the border crisis (as she's been tasked to do). Trump tried to build that stupid wall but also used the courts and legislative process to discourage immigration, a short-sighted way of managing the continuing crisis. Biden's not doing much better to re-organize our immigration process, and people are just going to keep coming to America.

[Exodus]

Went to Waffle House today that was so short staffed they could only accommodate take out. No biggie. I just ate in my car.

 

Also got an email from a tea supplier with sort of the same old I have been hearing about delays from everyone else.

 

 

COVID-19 Update

Here are some updates as we know them today (05/01/2021):

 

For Davidson’s Organic Teas, communication is key when trying to explain things we cannot control. We recognize that demand for materials is at a historic high. COVID-19 impacts are still being felt in many ways in our industry, as well as labor shortages and typical economic imbalances abroad. While we may not be in control of all the supply chain issues right now, we want to have the ability to communicate and partner with you to ensure we work together to meet your needs and lead times.

 

 

Raw Materials: What used to be a very consistent delivery process for raw materials is now anything but that. Tea shipments from origin have record backlogs with all major suppliers. This continues to push out lead times - anywhere from a week+ to months for specialty items.

Packaging Supplies: Production related packaging supplies are also limited right now. This includes chipboards, wrappers, tags, SUPs, pallets, and more. Manufacturers are having difficulty getting the raw materials they need to produce packaging supplies. So delays are expected throughout the entire process.

Freight and Delivery: Delivery lead times have extended as we continue to see issues with both incoming and outgoing freight and shipping containers. Know we are continuing to add shifts, employees, and even new production strategies; all of which adds capacity and gives us the best opportunity to help mitigate some of these delays. While this helps, order volumes are high and supply chain issues still exist, so our lead times have increased to accommodate.

[Tractor]

Here they have so many closed restaurants because of no cook or just one waiter so extremely slow. Kinda bad in tourist season lol.

[BBQdDude]

I do a yearly fireworks and overnight camping at my house. All last week I spent calling shop after shop to find the best prices. I ended up at Phantom and man was I depressed. Got roughly half the "normal" amount.

 

The things we do to make grand kids smile lol.

[Tractor]

I do a yearly fireworks and overnight camping at my house. All last week I spent calling shop after shop to find the best prices. I ended up at Phantom and man was I depressed. Got roughly half the "normal" amount.

 

The things we do to make grand kids smile lol.

 

So your saying I could switch careers and be a "firework runner" there huge here in SC and I live on the boarder with NC where they are illegal so at every point a road crosses into SC there's a ton of roadside stands.

[BBQdDude]

So your saying I could switch careers and be a "firework runner" there huge here in SC and I live on the boarder with NC where they are illegal so at every point a road crosses into SC there's a ton of roadside stands.

 

 

Sure could lol.

 

I figure more beer and no one will notice at the party lol. Well except none for the grandkids lol.

[gillbot]

I tried to order some parts today, shortest lead time was 53 weeks for a din rail power supply. Many other components are way worse. Our controllers have a 9 month projected lead time but the manufacturer said there are no chips to make them and no projected time for they can even get any. We are gonna grind to a halt very soon and I fear what’s gonna happen then with the job market.

[Exodus]

Wendys Edited June 12, 2021 by Exodus

[Exodus]

 

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[Wease]

On my way into work today, there was a group of people with large signs of "Impeach Biden" by the 270 on ramp. No surprise there, given the current shit show...

[Mallard]

On my way into work today, there was a group of people with large signs of "Impeach Biden" by the 270 on ramp. No surprise there, given the current shit show...

I get that Afghanistan is a shit show right now, but pulling out was not a partisan policy. Trump started the process, wanted to be out in May, said he knew the government would collapse without the US support, chastised Biden for extending to Sept, but now the Republicans are scrubbing every web site mention of Afghanistan policy that they have.

 

It's a constant shit show around me though...there is still a Trump rally every Sat and Sun on the street corner, and up north near my cabin there's Trump propaganda everywhere. It's like it's still in the middle of the campaign.

 

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[zeitgeist57]

On my way into work today, there was a group of people with large signs of "Impeach Biden" by the 270 on ramp. No surprise there, given the current shit show...

 

I pissed off my wife's friends when I reminded them that Trump pulled most of the troops out last year, ALONG with releasing 5,000 Taliban fighters. Facts hurt if you're spoon-fed your arguments from FB memes.

 

I genuinely feel that Biden's doing as good of a job as he can (but I cannot stand Kamala). I just wish we weren't so polarized politically. We're our own worst enemy in a world increasingly against us.

[Mace1647545504]

This war was a shitshow from the get-go. Bush 43 should have never gone into Iraq which created the taliban.

 

Didn't we learn anything from when the russians were in afghanistan..I'll answer my own question..NO.

 

While I don't agree with biden on many points especially the amount of debt he's piling on the US, I do agree with him saying we should fight a war that the country's own people wouldn't fight.

 

But you can't win a holy war, it's never been done..from the crusades on