☆~Sleepy Joe 2021~☆

[Mace1647545504]

Love Chappelle...be you black or white..lib or conserve..tall or short..etc. or etc. ...you are fair game...lol

[greg1647545532]

Gina Carano should take a knee during the national anthem to protest cancel culture.

[Mace1647545504]

Gina Carano should take a knee during the national anthem to protest cancel culture.

 

that shtick has been done already

[Mace1647545504]

and this is why there is a divide ..the unbiased media ...

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hawley-abc-correspondent-disgusting-calling-171603988.html

[greg1647545532]

that shtick has been done already

 

Heh, clever use of Yiddish given the context. Nice.

[Mace1647545504]

My parents had many Jewish friends when I was growing up and I heard the term 100s of times..

 

Plus I'm an old guy and that's a great old guy term...lol

[greg1647545532]

You should have your parents ask their Jewish friends what they think of Gina Carano.

[Otis Nice]

If you're in this thread fighting with others in this thread who are your peers about which 2 party candidate is better or worse yet not doing a single damn thing elsewhere to promote growth and positive change or looking into revamping/overhauling an immoral, corrupt, and broken system, you're in the wrong and part of the problem. You're being played. You are a puppet. You're furthering the division.

 

Thank you for coming to my TEDTalk.

[Geeto67]

You should have your parents ask their Jewish friends what they think of Gina Carano.

 

Or about the insensitive comments you made about a month ago in response to Mallard telling you he lost a relatives in a synagogue bombing. I'm sure they would enjoy hearing that one.

[Mace1647545504]

You should have your parents ask their Jewish friends what they think of Gina Carano.

 

Unfortunately both have passed

[Mace1647545504]

Or about the insensitive comments you made about a month ago in response to Mallard telling you he lost a relatives in a synagogue bombing. I'm sure they would enjoy hearing that one.

 

please show me those

[Mace1647545504]

kerry..tik toc..I'm waiting

[Geeto67]

BUT conservative free speech is under fire and if you don't comply to our mindset(dems/libs) you will lose your livelihood.

 

First off it is not "free speech" It's just speech or mainly your opinion. See below for why this is not a "free" speech issue.

 

Is it conservative speech? or just Bigoted speech? I know it's hard to tell the difference because of conservative politics loooong history of embracing bigoted speech as part of their rhetoric, and hell they don't even deny it and invented "coded" or "Dog Whistle" rhetoric in politics:

 

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Lee_Atwater

 

But here is the thing you don't seem to grasp: Tell me where it says I have to hire a Nazi? Or a Klan Member? Where is the law that says I am obligated to employ someone I don't agree with about politics? I'll save you some time - it isn't.

 

Honestly, in order for anybody to take this "conservative speech is under fire" argument seriously, conservatives have to make an effort to actually purge bigoted language from their rhetoric. I just don't think it will happen, it's baked into modern conservativism not since all the conservative advocates that understood that (William F Buckley, Barry Goldwater, Bob Dole, John McCain) are dead.

 

This comes from the group that says free speech must abound,

 

Free Speech only applies to the government's intervention in speech, which is extremely limited. If you are talking about "cancel culture" you ARE NOT talking about free speech, you are talking about individual liberty.

 

If you support individual liberty and a private citizen's right to act on their beliefs and opinions, then Cancel Culture is the logical extension of that personal liberty. Freedom of speech is not freedom of consequence.

 

Here's a little fun fact since it came up at work today - do you know where "Free Speech" comes from? In the days of "Jolly Old England" (1640s-1660's) If you owned a printing press you couldn't just print whatever you wanted - you had to have a paid for printing license, and this license granted you a right to print only certain things. This was a way to make sure writers had control over their work (literally a Copy Right) and also for the crown to control what was printed and distributed.

 

When the founding father's formed this country, they made sure to write into the constitution Freedom of the press (literally the printing press but also the operators like newspapers) and labeled it "free speech" because the government could not interfere or charge you a printing fee license for what you printed or wrote. They also created the copyright act of 1790 to give artists copy control over their original work (in this case mostly books, maps, and charts) so as to establish incentive for artists and professionals to create (again a copyright) with limits.

 

Notice the theme here is government intervention. With some very narrow exceptions related to race, sex, national origin, religion, or color, there is no law that says another person has to respect your opinion or do business with you. Freedom of speech is freedom to critique the government without ending up in jail, it is not a license to be an asshole to people and they have to accept it without any consequence to you.

[Geeto67]

kerry..tik toc..I'm waiting

 

http://www.columbusracing.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1981580#post1981580

 

In response to this:

 

I never posted about it here before, but this was the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting. The guy was an extremist that thought Trump wasn't far enough to the right, but that doesn't exonerate Trump from fueling this man's ideology. He used Trump's words of a migrant invasion, and subscribed to conspiracy theories (fueled by Trump, other Republicans, like Matt Gaetz, and right wing media) that the migrant caravan was organized by opposition groups to make Trump look bad before mid-term elections and was being paid for by George Soros, who is constantly used as an antisemitic trope.

 

The migrant caravan was portrayed by Trump and his allies as an existential threat to the American way of life, a plot to invade the country with immigrant minorities and give them voting rights. It played right into white supremacists replacement theory, then added Soros (aka the Jews) as the puppet master pulling the strings.

 

There has been a huge rise in white supremecy and antisemitism under Trump, and it's no coincidence. It's been fueled by his rhetoric. He spreads fear. He creates an enemy that motivates people to take sides; good vs evil. And some people take it as a call to arms.

 

My dad's death was 2 years (to the day) of my great aunt's funeral.

 

and this:

 

Most (if not all) of Trump's supporters will also say that he had no culpability in the shooting, citing the shooters disapproval of Trump as the sole reason (he was still too "globalist" for him). However, his ideology was completely fueled and validated by Trump and his allies words. He's not without blame.

 

I said my piece in the post above, but there have also been OpEd's in the media that say the same.

 

Here's one from the Atlantic. The Washington Post is behind a pay wall and there are others out there, but they all take similar positions.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...n-jews/574213/

 

 

 

you wrote this:

 

Every time I read that trump is anti-semitic..it make me laugh as it shows you are getting all your info from cnn/msnbc or the 3 major news outlets.

 

You do realize his son in law is jewish and his grandchildern (from this same man) are half jewish.

 

Also you realize he moved the US embassy in Israel to Jerusalem.

 

Please fact check your stuff before posting.

[Mace1647545504]

Kerry ..first off..thanks for the lesson on free speech..no really I'm not being a dick here..I love learning new things and it let's me join in on different conversations.

For that reason I used to buy bathroom readers for my kids. As my youngest sons gf referred to them as a bunch of useless knowledge. To which I replied it gives him the ability to join a conversation that he may not of had the ability to.

 

Anyway, you refer to it as cancel culture and I free speech.

Here I'm paraphrasing, you don't have to hire someone you don't agree with, but yet you and yours throw kaepernick up and say well because he kneeled no one will hire him...you (the proverbial you) can't have it both ways.

[Mace1647545504]

kerry please show me where i said something insensitive about mallards relatives being slain.

 

if i had i'm sure he would have been the 1st to say..F U mace your talking about my relatives

 

I don't see the insensitivity in my response..you are really reaching here .. AND if i'm not seeing it i'm sure others will point it out and I'm not just talking about greg i would expect everyone to say something.

 

And i'm sure my remarks were not about his relatives it was about trump being anti-semitic

 

You are really in left field and possibly out of the ball park on this one

[Geeto67]

Kerry ..first off..thanks for the lesson on free speech..no really I'm not being a dick here..I love learning new things and it let's me join in on different conversations.

For that reason I used to buy bathroom readers for my kids. As my youngest sons gf referred to them as a bunch of useless knowledge. To which I replied it gives him the ability to join a conversation that he may not of had the ability to.

[/Quote]

 

No worries. History gives us context, and a lot of these conversations are about context. A lot of the political disagreements these days comes from a lack of understand the context of some of how this stuff came to be. Jim Crow really fucked this country in a really bad way and they hardly teach it in schools. A lot, and I do mean a lot, of conservative talking points and opinions tie directly back to Jim Crow, but the context is often lost or obscured.

 

Anyway, you refer to it as cancel culture and I free speech.

Here I'm paraphrasing, you don't have to hire someone you don't agree with, but yet you and yours throw kaepernick up and say well because he kneeled no one will hire him...you (the proverbial you) can't have it both ways.

 

Kaepernick is an interesting thing to bring up because it kind of sort of falls into the Title VII exception to free speech: you can't deny employment based on Race or Color. Title VII has only been around since 1964 so as a federal law there isn't enough jurisprudence to cover every situation.

 

Kapernick made a statement about Race relations in America and as a result he was functionally frozen out of the NFL. One could easily interpret that his lack of employment is connected to his race, he made a statement related to his race and as such has not been able to play in the NFL since. But because it hasn't been adjudicated before, there is enough room to say "he was terminated because of a policy, regardless of what he said". Unfortunately we won't know the answer because he settled his lawsuit against the NFL for collusion. And we haven't even begun to scratch the surface of the context of historical bias in black public figures being silenced by their employers - which is vast and very ugly.

 

If you are on the side of the NFL freezing out Kapernick, then you are in favor of cancel culture, but you are also kind of in favor of racists being able to discriminate on the basis of race or color in employment. It's hard to separate the two, and unfortunately the law doesn't provide much guidance.

[Geeto67]

kerry please show me where i said something insensitive about mallards relatives being slain.

 

if i had i'm sure he would have been the 1st to say..F U mace your talking about my relatives

 

I don't see the insensitivity in my response..you are really reaching here .. AND if i'm not seeing it i'm sure others will point it out and I'm not just talking about greg i would expect everyone to say something.

 

And i'm sure my remarks were not about his relatives it was about trump being anti-semitic

 

You are really in left field and possibly out of the ball park on this one

 

The thing you are missing here is context. Dude basically lays out in detail how his life has been affected and how he has suffered a loss due to the increase in anti-Semitic activity that was fueled by the rhetoric of the president, and you come along and tell him he's full of shit and a puppet of main stream media.

 

seriously man, read the room. You basically told a member of a ethnic/religious group that his feelings about his experiences related to his ethnicity/religion were invalid because you, a non member of that group didn't have the same experience. That at it's core insensitive and borderline anti-Semitic. This is before we add in the context that this is the exact techniques oppressors use on oppressed people.

 

Just because you don't overtly say "fuck your aunt", didn't mean you didn't say something shitty. Maybe you didn't intend it, but again, it's probably because you lacked the context.

 

And by the way, I said Fuck you in the moment. As a member of that same ethnic group I called you out

[Mace1647545504]

i can remember hearing talk of relatives on pops side saying how they did whatever when they came over from Italy. Given shit jobs for shit pay so I am not unfamiliar with the concept of being locked out because of ethnicity.

 

kap was given a chance to come back but wanted to have it his way and be a martyr that's fine but you have to live with the consequences. Let's face it, he's doing better not playing football than if he was.

[Mace1647545504]

kerry i'd have to read the whole thread, which i'm not doing, to ensure i was posting directly to him, which i'm sure i wasn't.

 

AND i'm used to you and greg saying F U to me...it's water rolling off a ducks back when you 2 do it.

 

25-30 years ago I would have hunted you down and kicked your ass every which way from tuesday..today i am more mellow...as my friends and family will tell you I've mellowed quite a bit in my old age and they will also tell you be glad you (again the proverbial you) didn't meet the young larry.

 

In looking back i really wasn't a very nice person

[greg1647545532]

Make Mace Great Again!

[Mace1647545504]

Make Mace Great Again!

 

LOL...too many moving parts now

[Geeto67]

i can remember hearing talk of relatives on pops side saying how they did whatever when they came over from Italy. Given shit jobs for shit pay so I am not unfamiliar with the concept of being locked out because of ethnicity.

 

My Father's side is Italian, I hear it is where I get my stubbornness from. That said, every group has experienced hardship at some point, one groups' hardship doesn't invalidate another's or make it seem less worse. That's what's so insidious about those "irish slavery" memes that go around - their sole purpose is to make black slavery in America seem like it was less worse than it is.

 

kap was given a chance to come back but wanted to have it his way and be a martyr that's fine but you have to live with the consequences. Let's face it, he's doing better not playing football than if he was.

 

Was he given a "Fair Chance" to come back? Did he have the same chance as any other? They took Michael Vick back and even mentored his return before he came back, spent a ton of money on him just to put him in fighting shape and the dude murdered dogs.

 

History is filled with instances where employers fucked over employees of color in a similar manner. It's hard not to see it in that context, esp when it looks like a racial firing.

 

 

kerry i'd have to read the whole thread, which i'm not doing, to ensure i was posting directly to him, which i'm sure i wasn't.

 

AND i'm used to you and greg saying F U to me...it's water rolling off a ducks back when you 2 do it.

 

These conversations are rarely personal, but I kinda felt that one a little. I'm over it, though so lets move forward.

 

25-30 years ago I would have hunted you down and kicked your ass every which way from tuesday..today i am more mellow...as my friends and family will tell you I've mellowed quite a bit in my old age and they will also tell you be glad you (again the proverbial you) didn't meet the young larry.

 

In looking back i really wasn't a very nice person

 

30 years ago I would have been 13 so...

 

20's me probably would have done the same. The point is to evolve. to become more knowledgeable, more empathetic, be slower to anger and to see all sides. With age comes hopefully the wisdom to see and appreciate all sides and be open to disagreement. Otherwise you just end up another old man screaming "get off my lawn"

[Mace1647545504]

kerry .. i like you say let's move forward...we can always disagree on things but like i said it's your opinion and mine.

 

if i were to still be mad i'd be starting all my conversation with F U, you sob, when i see you i'll F you up..don't talk to me..lol

 

Yes I have evolved

[Mallard]

kerry i'd have to read the whole thread, which i'm not doing, to ensure i was posting directly to him, which i'm sure i wasn't.

 

 

 

AND i'm used to you and greg saying F U to me...it's water rolling off a ducks back when you 2 do it.

 

 

 

25-30 years ago I would have hunted you down and kicked your ass every which way from tuesday..today i am more mellow...as my friends and family will tell you I've mellowed quite a bit in my old age and they will also tell you be glad you (again the proverbial you) didn't meet the young larry.

 

 

 

In looking back i really wasn't a very nice person

I understood the post as a response to me, however I did not take it as anti-semitic. It was dismissive and the argument that his son-in-law is Jewish means nothing to me. It's the equivalent of "I have a black friend," and moving the embassy to Jerusalem was not for the Jews, it was pandering to evangelicals. Many Jews disagree with the move and support a 2 state solution in Israel.

 

What it did make clear to me was that no matter what happened people will always defend Trump by saying, "oh, but when he said xxx he meant yyy," or "his words are just that, words. They mean nothing. People pulled the trigger on their own, that was their decision. He has no blame in this."

 

After any culpability in inciting the hatred and paranoia that killed my aunt and severely injured my cousin was completely dismissed, I'm not surprised one bit by people making excuses for him now about the Capitol insurrection.

 

Trump's words as President of The United States matter, they are not said in a vacuum. It's not the same as you or me spouting off on Twitter. Every President needs to understand this responsibility and choose their words carefully. I realize that one reason people like Trump is because he's unpolished and "says what he thinks," or is "not politically correct."

 

But many people have been screaming from rooftops the last 4 years that his words are having demonstratable consequences through a rise in far right extremism, white nationalism, antisemitism, racism, anti-immigrant hate crimes. The response is that those people have TDS, Fuck Your Feelings, and it's not Trump's fault because he didn't pull the trigger. No one in the Republican party ever stood up to Trump, took his Twitter away, asked him to tone it down a bit, or contradicted his message without getting called a RINO or being cancelled from the party. Most amplified his message. The rhetoric and falsehoods continued until Jan 6th and the results were not surprising. It was a train wreck we saw coming years ago.

 

As for Kap, it would have never been as big of an issue as it ended up had Trump not chimed in. The same people screaming about cancel culture because they have a Tweet deleted also lost their fucking minds at this man's peaceful protest and wanted him cancelled. When you represent a brand you never have total freedom of speech, but protesting racial injustice is a strange thing for a brand to take offense to. On the flip side, don't celebrate Kap getting pushed out of the entire league while being angry about not being able to get a shitty pillow at Bed Bath and Beyond anymore.

 

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