a simple question....

[ChickOn2]

I've looked at a few posts here and why is it a lo of you hate on Hd riders?

Nothing could be further from the TROOF. HD riders have always been very, VERY friendly to me, especially when I'm riding solo. They even take time out of their riding day to give me a 'safety escort,' bless their little cotton socks.

[ReconRat]

I think it's great when they talk shit about Jap bikes...............

Sambusa is correct, the only part on a Harley that is still made consistently in the USA is the engine, and maybe the frame. Almost everything else possibly comes from other places that do it better and/or cheaper. US trade law allows 40% made outside the USA, and still call it "Made in the USA".

Suspension parts are made in Italy (Agusta) or the Showa USA plant.

Gauges from Japan and Malaysia.

Carbs and other parts are made in Japan.

Hardware parts of the engines such as clutch springs, bearings, bolts, nuts, seals and some powered metal transmission gears are made in Taiwan and China.

Cables made in Mexico.

Light bulbs made in Japan.

Wiring from USA or Mexico.

Pistons made in Germany (BMW) and Wisconsin.

Wheels from Australia, China and USA.

Tires from Britain, France, Brazil, Japan, USA and China.

Something is made in a Harley factory in Brazil, not sure what.

In 1998, Harley started assembling some Harley models in Brazil.

Harley accessories - China

Harley clothing - Honduras

Oddly, even a part used in assembly, that is made in the USA can still be 40% not made in the USA. And that portion isn't counted in the total. There is a lot of cheating when USA factories admit the total percentages. It's possible that as little as 30% of an American Harley is actually "Made in the USA". (Harley claims 95%.) Besides, how is this measured? Cost? Total numbers? Size? Weight? Volume? I have no idea.

But then again:

Triumphs are made in Thailand,

Enfields are made in India,

and soon, some Honda and Yamaha models will be made in China.

And we forget that Buell, Victory and GoldWings and some Kawasakis (Lincoln, Nebraska) are/were made in America. The GoldWing factory is gone. (Nortons are made in the USA now, but we still haven't seen one on the road.)

In reality, Kawasaki of Lincoln, and Honda of Marysville are/were actual manufacturing plants. Whereas Harley-Davidson of Milwaukee is an assembly plant. Parts made all over the world, while the two American-Japanese plants pumped money into the local economy to make almost all parts here in the USA.

(Sadly, in searching, I find that Springfield Armory 40 cal. SW.Springfield Armory of Geneseo, IL. On the slide it even says Springfield Armory USA. = actually Made in Croatia.)

And back on subject, yeah, I wave at most all of them. But the mopeds, scooters, BMWs, and Harleys are in a class of their own. Most of them don't wave back.

And sadly, most Harley riders just don't recognize any other motorcycle, while other riders at least recognize Harleys as the motorcycles that they are. Same goes for BMW.

[Artmageddon]

Most of the people I know could care less what people ride. I wave to everyone that I see, but sometimes I fall right in between that state of mind in which I'm concentrating on the road enough to be in a zone, and daydreaming enough that it is just me on the road and everything else are obstacles to get around.

I ride a metric cruiser now, will I buy an HD? Sure, there a few models that I love, I almost bought one this year, and I'm still thinking heavily on the Night Train for this winter.

Wold I buy a sportbike? Probably, if I had the cash to have it as a second bike. Even then it would be something like a naked SV. I like sportbikes, just don't feel that they are for me. I ride with 3 guys quite often that all ride sportbikes. I just enjoy the road, and I'll always be friendly to anyone that is friendly to me.

[FocusDave01]

if your on 2 wheels im cool with you lol...even three wheels lol..

[balaormiga]

Personally I live in a town dominated by Harley's. They are everywhere!

We listen to them all day and night once riding season hits. My experience has been HD riders wave a LOT less. So much so that after a while I stopped waving at them at all unless they wave first.

I don't hate HD's. In fact I would love to have one in addition to my sportbike.

To each his own.

I believe there is a bit of good natured ribbing between the two groups and no one should take it personally.

[GSDave]

Bikes fit different people at different times. Economics, age, location, etc. all determine what one rides. I respect people who ride. What they ride simply doesn't matter.

I loose a little respect for the ones who buy a particular brand to fit in to some sort of club but don't really ride. That bugs me.

[Disclaimer]

^^^--- Hey look, it's one of them uppity BMW guys.

J/k mang.

[jagr]

^^^--- Hey look, it's one of them uppity BMW guys.

J/k mang.

For realz. I like HD dudes more than those cape wearing Bimmer riders.

I kid I kid.

[NightRider]

I consider every Hd i see a Mongol....and i'm a Hells Angels Rider. Ammd. All Mongols Must Die. Jk! I just watched gangland, about biker wars on the history channel. Some pretty interesting stuff.

Like Focusdave said, if you ride a bike your fine with me.

[warpspeed]

I don't hate on cruisers.......I actually enjoy riding them once in awhile. Really I should have one instead of a streetbike it would help keep me out of trouble.

[steppenwolf]

I could care less what someone else rides.I only care about my ride...and getting home safe..

[vroddave]

yeah them damn hd riders suck ass. hahaha.

[max power]

I don't hate on cruisers....... Really I should have one instead of a streetbike it would help keep me out of trouble.

Uh, I think cruisers are streetbikes.

[zerocrash]

^^^--- Hey look, it's one of them uppity BMW guys.

J/k mang.

Who is riding one of the coolest bikes ever produced. The R1200GS is absolutely my dream bike and as soon as I have an extra $20k laying around, I will own one.

[bigbluebird]

if i had the cash i would buy an hd for the longer hauls but for in town work its my sv

[zerocrash]

if i had the cash i would buy an hd for the longer hauls but for in town work its my sv

No way man.. BMW R1200 GS/RT, Yamaha FJR1300, Honda ST1300, or if you really want to tour, nothing beats the Goldwing.

[zerocrash]

If I had an extra $20k lying around I'd buy an Ultra Classic because they aren't that ugly and only weigh 800 pounds and make barely 100 hp.

(but at least they have on-board tunes. Right Magz??)

But as Magz has proved, anything can have on-board tunes!

[zerocrash]

I want a GS like nobody's business.

You and me both bro!! That pic is of the GS Adventure, which has almost a 9 gallon gas tank!! Imagine not having to stop for gas for 400-500 miles??

[zerocrash]

The GS is super comfy, but you're right. Hell, I'm not even doing 400 miles in my car without a break!

[Sara_Rides]

I realize that currently I don't really ride anything except dirt, but it seems to me that it's just the personality of the rider...HD riders and sport bike riders alike can be assholes....the HD riders are more stereotyped for being the badass fighter types and the sport bike dudes are stereotyped as the rich idiots....neither stereotype, in my opinion is accurate..people are who they are despite what they ride, it's just that what they ride gives them an opportunity to form a click which seems to then create unnecessary rivalries...come on...we're all on two wheels!! Spread the love!!

[cmoosego]

I realize that currently I don't really ride anything except dirt, but it seems to me that it's just the personality of the rider...HD riders and sport bike riders alike can be assholes....the HD riders are more stereotyped for being the badass fighter types and the sport bike dudes are stereotyped as the rich idiots....neither stereotype, in my opinion is accurate..people are who they are despite what they ride, it's just that what they ride gives them an opportunity to form a click which seems to then create unnecessary rivalries...come on...we're all on two wheels!! Spread the love!!

now I have to disagree.... I am one of those asshole types... and I own the road I'm on so get the hell off it!! I'd ride an HD, a metric cruiser, a dual sport, a sport bike, a dirt bike, a standard bike, yamaha, honda, suzuki, triumph, OCC, big dog, anything with 2 wheels basically....

[Ron Burgundy]

i wave at the little amish kids on there bikes

[Sara_Rides]

now I have to disagree.... I am one of those asshole types... and I own the road I'm on so get the hell off it!! I'd ride an HD, a metric cruiser, a dual sport, a sport bike, a dirt bike, a standard bike, yamaha, honda, suzuki, triumph, OCC, big dog, anything with 2 wheels basically....

Technically you would be agreeing, because I disagreed with the stereotypes I described... so that makes me right!! Yay!!

[that dude]

i f-n hate harley davidson and the whole h-d image. they are waay overpriced, sound like shit, built like shit, and look like shit imo. like the saying last century technology, and todays pricing. they are not american bikes either..maybe assembled here..if im correct doesnt honda own a certain percentage of h-d? i hate how every harley riders wardrobe consits of blck and orange h-d t shirts and black pants.i dont wave to anyone, rather might give a h-d rider a nice salute..sorry for the rant

[Dweezel]

I've looked at a few posts here and why is it a lo of you hate on Hd riders?

Because the utterly vast majority of them are weekend warriorers that think 20 miles a month to the bar and back every weekend is a hell of a lot of riding. You should see the looks I get when I tell some of them that I go through 3 sets of tires a year, it's unfathomable to them.

I 've ridden all types of bikes, and yea some of the HD riders don't wave but others do.

again has to do with whats sitting on top of the bike. if it's a cruiser I generally won't wave first unless it's a Goldwing (i love those guys, there's some great riders) or other obvious metric cruiser.

My boss is an old time HD rider and always waved and looked and commented how much he liked my other bikes.

The old timers are the best. Those are the guys that know it's not the best, know it's issues and still love them. they've got nothing to prove and could give a damn if you do either. they'll talk to you at a fuel stop, shoot the shit and ask where your going and how far they could ride with you till you gotta split. I love the old timers, they ride to ride, not to be cool when their on their way into the office, I've got an uncle like this and as much as he bitches about the bikes, he'll never own anything different. I know several die hard HD owners, they hate the bikes. always something broken, everything costs a fortune for them, and there's always something that needs a fixing. To me thats not a bike, it's an obligation. If i wanted one of those i'd get married. I pull my bike out of the garage, thumb the starter, strap my helmet on, and go. no warming up, not fussing with that or this, nothing. and about every 3-4k miles i change plugs and oil. about.

I currently own a Fat Boy, and the reason I bought it was the zzr1200 I owned was just to fast. I ran 80-85 all the time becasue that is where it like to live.

I bought the HD as a way to slow myself down and I got a GREAT deal on it.

Just an observation.

So if you wave I'll wave back

Mace

If you need to buy a different bike to justify slowing down, you need some serious work. EVERY bike ever created, no matter by whom, has had a throttle. ALL of them, and I have yet to see one make without a speedo of some sort, hell even HD throws on leather tassels like my little cuz's tricycle on the handle bars so you can tell if your moving.

I hate HD because I'm an intelligent person. You cannot sell me shit and claim it's gold. I know better. I live eat and breathe mechanics. It's what I do. I drag race, I street race, I road race. I built my first 10 second small block at age 15. I spec'd my first cam at 22, it went into a 2001 Trans Am that put 433hp/402lbs/ft tq to the wheels. I know why things work and I'm obsessed with the internal combustion engine.

Harley Davidson has failed miserably at this. Their engine is such a joke it's not even funny. for christs sake VW gave up on the air cooled engine. let it go. The sound they tried to trademark is caused by a faulty engineering design that will, and it's a scientific fact, eventually rattle it's self appart. They are cursed with unholy vibrations that they 'solved' with rubber mounts. No shit? rubber mounts? they used them in cars 60 years ago and HD just figured it out what, 6 years ago?! seriously?

Beyond that scope every other manufacturer (almost, cheappo cars still use rubber) has switched to a harder, more aggressive compound like urethane or even solid mounts to improve chassis response and make the most out of their engines. they've done this because they've evolved their engines, making them smoother and less vibrations by balancing the internal parts and making them spin in unisom. The auto industry spends billions a year working on NHV (Noise Harshness and Vibrations) on their engines. HD slaps an old irrigation pump in a frame and tells you it's what all the cool kids are riding, don't you wanna be like peter fonda? and charges your a kings ransom for it.

Jap bikes, sport bikes specifically use the engine as a structural part of the frame they are designed and redesigned every 2 years, even the small 600cc variants make 2x the HP of HD's largest offereing, they have twin beam chassis with inverted forks, their all aluminum magnesium and other exotic metals and are ultra lightweight pumping out upwards of 190 hp in the new Gixxers. All that for less than 10 grand.

A base HD will run you 12 grand. that gets you an 883cc engine designed in 1910 that produces a whopping 42hp (be carefull with that!), forks designed in 1950, and admission to the flock. You still need to throw on 100 lbs of chrome at about 500 dollars, you need the HD gear to show which flock you belong to, not a riding jacket, i mean tee's, jeans boots to PROVE to everyone that you OWN a HD, you don't actually have to ride it, just so long as you own it, and the kicker is the HD window sticker for the back of your lexus, and the license plate bracket that says "I'd rather be riding my XLVSGHETHERTUDLKJJVDOW Harley Davidson" even though it's 80 degrees and sunny out.

The people are a big bitch, but my biggest is that they are junk. Period, any real mechanic who know HOW an engine works, not just someone who can change parts, someone who knows how and why air flows through and engine and what makes it tick, someone with gasoline in their veins.

since someone is bound to bring up the new wonder shitpile the twin cam let me explain that to you. They need chains and sprockets for the cams at 30k miles. which isn't really a problem since most of them never make it that far in the first 5 owners. It's a fact, I know 3 people with them that actually RIDE the damn things, and they all complain about it.

Now, let me explain what HD did here. they took one cam out, seperated it so each cylinder has it's own cam, almost like a SOHC setup. However they knew that if they put the cams on top of the cylinders, there would be many upset sheep in the flock, and they might rebel. so they put TWO cams in the motor, essencially doubling the frictional losses of a single cam. thats all they changed. no wonderus head improvements, well nothing worth speaking of anyways, no fantastic exotic valve train, nothing. they doubled the friction losses of a single cam, and called it an upgrade. and the sheep were happy.

What amazes me is HD has the POTENTIAL to be an amazing company. THIS is why I dispise them with every fiber of my being. They are utter hill jacks that are content with making crap. below 4500RPMS a 2valve head is VASTLY superior to a 4v head. 20lbs/ft tq at 2000 rpms is instantly noticable, 20hp at 10,000 is not. Torque is what moves you, and lets face it, a heavy ass cruiser spends most of it's life at or below 3k rpms. a 4v head here (and in luxury cars for that matter) is a bain, not a blessing. There are things going on inside a cylinder with air swiriling and things burning that a 2v head greatly excentuates.

With a GOOD head design, a SOHC, or cam in block setup and some liquid cooling HD could easily catch up, maybe not to todays standards, but to at least the late 90's. Wht they should do is copy the LSx cylinder head. It's a work of art. In automotive terms it's pure sex. the best cylinder heads ever produced, they flow like mad at low lift, and high (low lift is what really counts, the valve is at half lift 2x and only at peak lift for a millionth of a second, something like 90% of the air injested into the clyinder happens below 1/2 lift, think about that) they have exceptional swirl, the air enters the cylinder in a tornado vortex, spiraling down, and as the piston comes back up it squishes this tonado making it go even faster untill the plug fires, which on a the LSx 2v head is right at the top outside of the tornado making a perfect burn. 4v heads don't do this, infact they prohibit this, the plug is smack dead in the center of a dead spot and it really can't be moved, and up untill about 5k rpms they are nororiously inefficient. they have shitty emmissions, and due to low speed filling issues, make much less tq.

HD could capitalize on this making a high tq low speed motor, which for a cruiser would be ideal. and as much as I love to race, there's millions of people out there who just want to turn the key and go.

Okay this is long, no one is gonna read it, i'm done.