Stopped for having visor up?!

[oldschoolsdime92]

The bad part about my stop was that there was a guy on a stetched old school suzuki 1100 drag bike( with a car back tire) riding in a white tank top, shorts, flip flops, and safety glasses. One of the few bike nights I went too, I was leaving and heading home. The cop proceeded to take my licenses, and be totally oblivious to the fact i do in fact have a motorcycle endorsement, but my licenses still said novice. Started in on how its almost dark and he better not see me get on the highway and on and on. I tried to explain it all to him, and he just simply had no idea of the motorcycle laws.

[Scruit]

The main reason I got my flip-face helmet was so I could flip it up at red lights and get air. Is that illegal? I flip it down again before I set off again...

[DreamNofR1]

Probably. That's what I just said in my post too. It won't matter to the cop if you "only did it for a few seconds." The fact is, your eyes aren't covered so I would assume they'd give you a ticket.

[conn-e-rot]

My shark helmet has internal sun visor I ride through town all the time with the visor up

[crb]

Hmm break the law get a ticket and whine why aren't they out there arresting the real criminals? Oh how many times have I heard this, but if you are breaking the law and issue you a ticket they are doing their job. Law is law period end, if you don't want to get a ticket for your visor being up keep your visor DOWN!!!

If you are going to break the law expect a ticket and take it like a MAN! Stop Whining oh poor me!

[Scruit]

Hmm break the law get a ticket and whine why aren't they out there arresting the real criminals? Oh how many times have I heard this, but if you are breaking the law and issue you a ticket they are doing their job. Law is law period end, if you don't want to get a ticket for your visor being up keep your visor DOWN!!!

If you are going to break the law expect a ticket and take it like a MAN! Stop Whining oh poor me!

But what if you don't break the law?

4501-17-01 © says; "No person shall operate or be a passenger on a motorcycle without using a protective eye device."

Therefore, if I am sitting at a red light then am I "operating" the motorcycle? I found a precedent from Conneticut that states that operating a motor vehicle is a much broader term than 'driving' and no intent to drive is required - you just need to do any of the step in the sequence that wind up with you driving - so starting the engine, even just putting the key in the ignition, etc.

http://www.jud.ct.gov/ji/criminal/glossary/mv_op.htm

Also, Protective Eye Device" is defined as one or more of Goggles, faceshield, windscreen and/or spectacles. Any protective device must be shatterproof.

For Face Shield it says; "a protective device attached to a helmet that covers the wearer’s face at least to a point approximating the tip of the nose, designed to provide adequate and reliable protection of the eyes from debris, wind, moisture, light, dust, cold, or any combination of these or other elements."

Therefore having the visor cracked open is ok as long as it comes down to at least to the tip of your nose. I'll have to put my helmet on tonight and figure out how many clicks I cna have it open and still have it level witht he tip of my nose. That might be zero clicks, I dunno.

Still, it's like the hands-free device laws... They even ban you from doing the phone thing while sitting at a red light. My phone has GPS on it and it sits in a cradle on my dash. Who is put at risk by me entering my GPS destination while sitting at a red light?

Edited July 29, 2011 by Scruit

[redkow97]

in high school, 4 of us were pulled over for riding in my friend's jeep with the top/doors off, and the wind-shield folded down.

the claimed reason: "you're not wearing eye protection."

Luckily we were in high school, and had chemistry goggles (seriously) to put on, and the guy let us go w/ a warning. Basically just an excuse to hassle us.

[conn-e-rot]

The shatterproof part is funny I'm almost certain every helmet I own has something on the visor about warranty not covering shatter of visor

[redkow97]

Hmm break the law get a ticket and whine why aren't they out there arresting the real criminals? Oh how many times have I heard this, but if you are breaking the law and issue you a ticket they are doing their job. Law is law period end, if you don't want to get a ticket for your visor being up keep your visor DOWN!!!

If you are going to break the law expect a ticket and take it like a MAN! Stop Whining oh poor me!

I think what you're trying to say is that if you're breaking the law; no matter how minute or insignificant you feel that law is, YOU ARE a "real" criminal, yes?

While i agree that the police should have higher priorities than speed traps and traffic stops, statistically it generates a lot of money to keep them on the streets (how does stopping a murder keep them employed?), and traffic stops have proven to be a VERY effective means of catching bad guys for other illegal acts.

Ever watched cops? How many times do they pull over a car for having a burnt-out headlight, and end up arresting 3 people for drug/gun possession, or for other outstanding warrants?

[Pfloydgad]

OK....my 2 cents.

My SIL is a Sherrif, and one of my best riding buddies is one also.

OHIO law states that Eye protection is required, sunglasses, perscription, goggles, etc. An officer has the law behind him to check the type of safety eyewear is being worn.

The worst part of this is that they have to check at all. You can't fix Stupid.

To ride anything like a Motorcycle, and not where some type of eye protection is just plain STUPID.

I have a full-face that I flip up when slowing and in city traffic. I also wear prescription glasses, and if I take them off, I can't hear you.

I ride a Concours with a windscreen standard, but I still am concerned with eye protection. I have mine made with industrial grade safety glass, just because I can.

38 yrs and no eye injuries, ever, I like my odds by doing it the right way.

JMHO.

Ride safe all.

Greg

[Scruit]

A further nail in the coffin for my prior assumption that sitting as a red light is not "operating" the bike...

http://www.ohioduiattorney.com/Dui.htm

“Operate” has a different definition than actually driving down the road. It includes being in control of a vehicle even if parked and not running at the time of the offense. If one is in the driver’s location of a stationary vehicle and has the keys close at hand so as to be capable to put the vehicle in motion, it would be considered “operation” and thereby an offense in Ohio. Many cases in Ohio have dealt with various aspects of whether the vehicle was on private property, actually moving, driver actually in driver’s seat, keys actually in the ignition and other aspects of operation. See State v Cleary, 22 Ohio St 3d 198; State v Gill 70 Ohio St 3d 150; State v Imer, 1997 WL 797772, No 16356 (2d Dist. Ct App Montgomery Co. 12-31-97). A new addition to the code will make actual physical control of the vehicle an offense.

Still, I have to believe that an officer would not stop someone JUST for flipping their facemask up while sitting at a red light... Although it could be the basis for a pretense stop if the officer suspects something else is not right and needs an excuse to pull you over.

EDIT: Oh well, turns out the high-mounted GIVI windshield on my bike is tall enough to it would satisfy the eye protection law on it's own. I can do whatever the hell I want with my visor.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Scruit

[crb]

But what if you don't break the law?

4501-17-01 © says; "No person shall operate or be a passenger on a motorcycle without using a protective eye device."

Therefore, if I am sitting at a red light then am I "operating" the motorcycle? I found a precedent from Conneticut that states that operating a motor vehicle is a much broader term than 'driving' and no intent to drive is required - you just need to do any of the step in the sequence that wind up with you driving - so starting the engine, even just putting the key in the ignition, etc.

http://www.jud.ct.gov/ji/criminal/glossary/mv_op.htm

Also, Protective Eye Device" is defined as one or more of Goggles, faceshield, windscreen and/or spectacles. Any protective device must be shatterproof.

For Face Shield it says; "a protective device attached to a helmet that covers the wearer’s face at least to a point approximating the tip of the nose, designed to provide adequate and reliable protection of the eyes from debris, wind, moisture, light, dust, cold, or any combination of these or other elements."

Therefore having the visor cracked open is ok as long as it comes down to at least to the tip of your nose. I'll have to put my helmet on tonight and figure out how many clicks I cna have it open and still have it level witht he tip of my nose. That might be zero clicks, I dunno.

Still, it's like the hands-free device laws... They even ban you from doing the phone thing while sitting at a red light. My phone has GPS on it and it sits in a cradle on my dash. Who is put at risk by me entering my GPS destination while sitting at a red light?

I'd he thinks he didnt break the law then he could fight it, although it was a warning so who cares. Im sick of hearing the go after the "real" criminals.

[Scruit]

The actual eye protection law in Ohio, for those that care...

http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/4501-17

[Scruit]

Im sick of hearing the go after the "real" criminals.

Yeah, the old "Real Criminals" line...

How about some "Real Numbers"....

In Ohio more people die in motor vehicle accidents (~1100/year) than in murders (~550/year). If the police wanted to reduce the number of deaths of Ohioans then they would take all the cops off homicide and reassign them to traffic - they would save more lives.

"Taking officers away from traffic and putting them on 'real crimes' will mean more people die. Is it ok for people to die so you can avoid your speeding ticket?"

[redkow97]

but it's not even about "preventing deaths."

Like I said before:

1) generating revenue is a simple necessity for law enforcement. Unless you want higher taxes, cops have to write tickets.

2) it is not the police's duty to PREVENT crimes. Their job is to investigate crimes. Traffic stops are a legitimate reason to 'randomly' question and check up on a large percentage of our society.

Without traffic stops, that murder suspect the detectives are investigating might never be apprehended.

[Scruit]

1) generating revenue is a simple necessity for law enforcement. Unless you want higher taxes, cops have to write tickets.

Pay-as-you-go policing? Make the bad guys fund the police, not the good guys.

[Scruit]

2) it is not the police's duty to PREVENT crimes. Their job is to investigate crimes.

I don't quite agree. I bleieve their job is to uphold the law and if that means by preventing common crimes from happening by using things like community policing, physical presence etc then they should be doing that.

The point of investigating crimes is to idenfiy the perpetrator and punish them in order to prevent more crimes (either by stopping a recidivist, or by setting an example).

[Scruit]

Typically' date=' the baddies don't have the scratch to fund the police. Hence, "pay as you go".[/quote']

Turn prisons into forced labor camps.

[ohiomike]

wouldnt it be hard to see?

LMAO,,,,ya I think it might be....lol

poly carbonite, "impact resistant"

[MeefZah]

You got a warning. Wear glasses under your helmet and then you are in compliance with the law and protecting your eyesight.

[granda080]

Any time I get the red and blue lights behind me I always pull quickly into a field and start shouting, "Bee's, giant killer bee's" while flailing about.

While I agree that eye protection is necessary. I think it is a bit of a stretch to pull someone over who has on their helmet and is wearing glasses, just to check their glasses out. That seems a bit nit picky to me, some where along the lines as a police officer seeing you have on your safety belt, but pulling you over to make sure that it has been properly installed in the car.

[conn-e-rot]

I had a guy pass us the other day by deadmans curve on a gixxer helmet strapped on side of bike do-rag on head and no glasses

[MeefZah]

While I agree that eye protection is necessary. I think it is a bit of a stretch to pull someone over who has on their helmet and is wearing glasses, just to check their glasses out. That seems a bit nit picky to me, some where along the lines as a police officer seeing you have on your safety belt, but pulling you over to make sure that it has been properly installed in the car.

I don't think he had glasses on under the helmet, hence the stop.

[Uncle Punk]

I ride my scooter all the time without a helmet or glasses. Obeying stupid laws is kind of a waste of my time and those who choose to enforce them.

[Big Green Valley]

I was pulled over with my visor up and regular glasses were on. Officer told me they were not approved safety glasses.

As previousley noted by Scruit. According to the Ohio Administrative Code 4501-17-04 Protective eye devices, it is.

4501-17-04 Protective eye devices.

(A) “Goggles” : a device consisting of glass or plastic eye pieces or eye-cups; commonly manufactured for and used by motorcycle operators and passengers; held in place by a headband or temple piece; provided with shields at the sides; with lenses made of safety glass; all of which provide adequate and reliable protection of the eyes from debris, wind, moisture, light, dust, cold, or any combination of these or other elements.

(B) “Face shield” : a protective device attached to a helmet that covers the wearer’s face at least to a point approximating the tip of the nose, designed to provide adequate and reliable protection of the eyes from debris, wind, moisture, light, dust, cold, or any combination of these or other elements.

© “Windscreen” : a transparent device mounted on a motorcycle forward of the operator designed to deflect wind and/or objects from the body and face of the operator and passenger, and which is of such a height, construction, and durability as to actually protect the riders when seated in a normal riding position for the particular vehicle being operated.

(D) “Spectacles” : ordinary eye pieces with lenses made of safety glass when worn or used by an operator or passenger on a motorcycle.

(E) All of the above when used individually or in combination shall constitute protective eye devices.

(F) Such protective eye devices shall consist of a transparent, shatter-resistant material so manufactured, fabricated, or treated as to substantially prevent shattering or flying when struck or broken.

R.C. 119.032 review dates: 03/09/2010 and 03/09/2015

Promulgated Under: 119.03

Statutory Authority: R.C. 4511.53, R.C. 4511.521

Rule Amplifies: R.C. 4511.53, R.C. 4511.521

Prior Effective Dates: 1/2/85 (Emer.), 4/3/68, 7/1/85

May I suggest you copy and print this section and keep it with your insurance and registration. Should an LEO stop you for this reason, please feel free to show him the section.