So why am I so sensitive about....

[Likwid]

... the Holocaust deniers stuff?

Beside that most people would be relatively sensitve about these kinds of things, there's a reason you could call me a cheap jew all day but when you start poking any kind of jokes about denying the Holocaust upsets me beyond where I can just shrug it off.

First I'd like to say, all I said was "I hereby negative rep you for that" meaning, I disapprove of your post. I never said "I QUIT UNLESS YOU BAN HIM" or "FUCK YOU THAT'S NOT COOL", just said I didn't approve.

Anyway, Holocaust memorial in DC when I was 13, I think I was too young to really understand or appreciate most of it, except for the 3 story staircase filled with pictures. Our guide pointed at one picture and said "This girl, was the only person in this staircase to survive" that hit me really hard, even at 13.

Flash forward 13 years and I find myself in Israel. I'll spare the whole trip since most people won't care. But the Holocaust Memorial in Jerusalem. I didn't find it nearly as powerful as DC until we saw the slip of paper that had the towns in Poland, itemized by area, and how many jews and "others" that were killed. Broken out by town, number killed and their reason for dying. It was used to judge the camps and to evaluate how well high level nazi officers were doing.

I'm sorry for being overly sensitive, but I just can't believe there exists people that can look at some of the things I've seen and say "it's all made up", and truly believe it. To the OP of the image, I KNOW you aren't the original person and this is NOT directed at you, this is just why I get overly sensitive.

Anyway, that's my rant, I felt the need to share with you folks. Only known you for a short amount of time but we share a similar passion.

Thanks for listening, sorry to anyone that is bothered by this.

Matt

[mrmako777]

denying the holocaust is idiocy bro, but if you feel that strongly about it, speak your mind. i myself share an interest in learning about this terrible time in history. if you get a chance, read filip mullers 3 years in the gas chambers. i found it much more detailed and interesting than primo levis book. a good dvd set to watch is "shoah" as well

[Likwid]

I can't read about it. Having met and spoke to a few survivors I find myself putting TOO much of a face on it to learn about it.

It's really hard read about things when you can actually picture someone that you've hugged and spoken to.

[ChickOn2]

I wish my Grampa Harry was still here. He passed away a couple of years ago at the age of 102. He was a medic on the front lines during WWII. He saw it ALL. He had some stories for your ass, too. Whoever wants to say he was a liar can feel free to step to me, if they feel lucky and their life insurance is paid up.

That is all.

[Dubguy85]

What boggles my mind is how people deny it, but survivors who witnessed it are still alive? LOL...thats just dumb!

[Likwid]

What boggles my mind is how people deny it, but survivors who witnessed it are still alive? LOL...thats just dumb!

Yah, it's kind of strange like that. Chickon2 has a good point about it, people that have seen it or are close to it get pretty upset.

Kind of like Buzz Aldrin punching the moon landing guy.... granted moon landing <> murder but still.

[mrmako777]

What boggles my mind is how people deny it, but survivors who witnessed it are still alive? LOL...thats just dumb!

holocaust deniers do not deny that many jews were killed (lets not forget they were not the only ones murdered, but by far the vast majority were), but that the holocaust did not happen to the extent that is claimed

[that dude]

holocaust deniers do not deny that many jews were killed (lets not forget they were not the only ones murdered, but by far the vast majority were), but that the holocaust did not happen to the extent that is claimed

i agree with your statement.

[SAMBUSA]

Nope, it never happened. Neil Armstrong didn't walk on the moon and slavery never happened either

[ChickOn2]

holocaust deniers do not deny that many jews were killed (lets not forget they were not the only ones murdered, but by far the vast majority were), but that the holocaust did not happen to the extent that is claimed

OK, so what do deniers say happened to the several million or so people who used to suck air, then suddenly disappeared? Just curious...?

[SAMBUSA]

What I dont get is why everyone is hung up on the Holocaust. Stalin killed ALOT more Jews than Hitler did but no one talks about that. Why?

[magifesq]

OK, so what do deniers say happened to the several million or so people who used to suck air, then suddenly disappeared? Just curious...?

Maybe they went 'off the grid'

But seriously, history has a tendency to repeat itself until the lesson is learned. It would be quite a shame if any political leader started building the infrastructure to allow those kinds of things to happen today - with all the high tech equipment today nobody who was marked could escape - satellite imagery, GPS on phones, internet... I guess the Amish might. The Jews weren't the only people that Hitler was doing away with - old people, birth defects, handicapables, then any other race that didn't come out blond haired, blue eyed and 6 foot tall.

Rant on until the lesson cannot be untaught!

[magifesq]

What I dont get is why everyone is hung up on the Holocaust. Stalin killed ALOT more Jews than Hitler did but no one talks about that. Why?

Maybe liberals revere Stalin more than Hitler?

Didn't stalin kill his own people, but Hitler went on the march?

[mrmako777]

OK, so what do deniers say happened to the several million or so people who used to suck air, then suddenly disappeared? Just curious...?

because im lazy, here is a quote for you

The key claims of Holocaust deniers are:

• The Nazis had no official policy or intention of exterminating Jews.
  
• Nazis did not use gas chambers to mass murder Jews.
  
• The figure of 5 to 7 million Jewish deaths is a gross exaggeration, and the actual number is an order of magnitude lower.
  

Other claims include the following:

• Stories of the Holocaust were a myth initially created by the Allies of World War II to demonize Germans. Jews spread this myth as part of a grander plot intended to enable the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine, and now to garner continuing support for the state of Israel.[14]
  
• Documentary evidence of the Holocaust, from photographs to the Diary of Anne Frank, is fabricated.
  
• Survivor testimonies are filled with errors and inconsistencies, and are thus unreliable.
  
• Nazi confessions of war crimes were extracted through torture.
  
• The Nazi treatment of Jews was no different from what the Allies did to their enemies in World War II.
  

i will say that the part i have bolded is true, but, NOT inconsistent with a person who has been through such things to have varying perceptions on their experience. that does not however take away from the credibility of their testimony. you and i may experience the same thing, but view it differently. that does not make our recollection of events unreliable.

[ChickOn2]

True... stalin was a real sunnuvabitch... he made Saddam Hussein look like Wayne Brady.

but as far as why the Holocaust gets under people's skin so much was that the killing was based mostly on good ole fashioned family racism. Stalin annihilated everyone his path for even thinking about opposing him. Hitler on the other hand, targeted certain groups of people... Jews, gypsys, blacks, gays, anyone with a physical handicap, Protestant pastors, Catholic priests..

And I guess the kicker was that Germans KNEW how Hitler felt about Jews, how he said from jump that he was going to murder each and every last one... and the German people went along with it. Not a good look.

Which is why my grandpa went to his grave 50 years after the war with a serious, serious mistrust of German people (I'm not saying he was right for that... it just was what it was). he swore up and down that if given the opportunity and the right list of excuses, german people would do it again and then try to pretend it didn't happen.

We tried to tell him that the worst horror a German can unleash on the world in this day and age is David Hasselhoff or maybe goetta, but he wouldn't hear of it.

[Likwid]

Stalin didn't target people the same way Hitler did.

One comment on the whole "why are people hung up on it" aside from the fact that more than 11,000,000 lives were extinguishes (and yes, more than jews, but 6,000,000 jews) also stems from the fact this all happened about 60 years ago.

11,000,000 for reference, would be every resident of New York City and Los Angeles... murdered in the course of 12 years, and for the most part, noone said anything.

In most of your parents' lifetimes, >75% of the jewish population in Europe were murdered. Think about that.

You're right, Stalin was a bad man too, but because of the shear number of people he murdered people don't dive down into the specifics. Also, Stalin killed a LOT of groups, equally, Hitler didn't. But still, don't ask me to argue who was a better person, that's not possible.

Let's talk about dates. (I hat to look these up)

Slavery Abolished 1865

Blacks given the right to vote 1870

Women given the right to vote 1920

Holocaust Liberation 1945

You're right, a lot has happened between 1945 and now.... but how many genocides? Darfur? 400,000 people dead and not a lot of people are paying attention over here.

[mrmako777]

And I guess the kicker was that Germans KNEW how Hitler felt about Jews, how he said from jump that he was going to murder each and every last one... and the German people went along with it. Not a good look.

i disagree with you to a certain extent. you have to remember, hitler was something of a messiah to the german people. he took a struggling country and made it a place the germans could be proud of. they rose from a shithole economy to damn near a world superpower. but, not all people agreed with hitler and his extermination plans. not even some of his most trusted advisors. there were more than one assination attempts, all of which failed

[Likwid]

i will say that the part i have bolded is true, but, NOT inconsistent with a person who has been through such things to have varying perceptions on their experience. that does not however take away from the credibility of their testimony. you and i may experience the same thing, but view it differently. that does not make our recollection of events unreliable.

And also, camps were treated differently. And people were treated differently within the camps. Lots of pictures show tattoos of numbers, this was only in one camp.

Which is why my grandpa went to his grave 50 years after the war with a serious, serious mistrust of German people (I'm not saying he was right for that... it just was what it was).

I REALLY struggle with this. My wife is first generation American on her father's side. He lived in Germany until the start of WWII when he came over to the USA and fought in the Air Force. But he's from Germany, and he was there...

I have ALWAYS had a major problem with Germany, and I still do, but one thing that I spoke to my Rabbi about is I am starting to understand that it wasn't ALL Germans, and there were some that tried to fight it as much as they could, but needless to say it's very difficult for me.

In terms of who knew about it and did nothing, a LOT of people, places, organizations, and governments are guilty. But because of their inaction and intense knowledge, you will never find me supporting the Red Cross. I will avoid them if I have any choice in the matter.

And yes, if there was a natural disaster here in Ohio and the Red Cross was providing support, if it meant death I would accept support, but up to that, I won't take a dime.

[Vulcan_Rider]

i disagree with you to a certain extent. you have to remember, Obama was something of a messiah to the American people. he took a struggling country and made it a place the Americans could be proud of. they rose from a shithole economy to damn near a world superpower. but, not all people agreed with Obama and his Socialist plans. not even some of his most trusted advisors. there will be more than one assination attempt, all of which will (probably) fail

Fixed it

I had to

[kawi kid]

True... stalin was a real sunnuvabitch... he made Saddam Hussein look like Wayne Brady.

GOD DaMN THATS FUNNY!!!!

[kawi kid]

Denying the Holocaust is like denying Michael touched little boys or denying O.J. killed that white broad and the dude she was bangin'... shit just don't make sense.

[SAMBUSA]

Stalin didn't target people the same way Hitler did.

One comment on the whole "why are people hung up on it" aside from the fact that more than 11,000,000 lives were extinguishes (and yes, more than jews, but 6,000,000 jews) also stems from the fact this all happened about 60 years ago.

11,000,000 for reference, would be every resident of New York City and Los Angeles... murdered in the course of 12 years, and for the most part, noone said anything.

In most of your parents' lifetimes, >75% of the jewish population in Europe were murdered. Think about that.

You're right, Stalin was a bad man too, but because of the shear number of people he murdered people don't dive down into the specifics. Also, Stalin killed a LOT of groups, equally, Hitler didn't. But still, don't ask me to argue who was a better person, that's not possible.

Let's talk about dates. (I hat to look these up)

Slavery Abolished 1865

Blacks given the right to vote 1870

Women given the right to vote 1920

Holocaust Liberation 1945

You're right, a lot has happened between 1945 and now.... but how many genocides? Darfur? 400,000 people dead and not a lot of people are paying attention over here.

Not trying to minimize the Holocaust with the "why are people so hung up on it" Just pointing out that Stalin was far worse. He killed around 60 million people, over 20 million were Jews.

[Tomcat0403]

I know and believe Stalin was worse, he killed more Jews than Hitler did and also killed millions of his own people with full public knowledge. I have a severe distrust of Russians especially since the incident with Georgia recently. i took a class recently on the history of Intelligence, this class went in depth on Russian Intelligence and since the beginning of the Russian Empire there have been horrible, atrocious, "intelligence" services that are many time no more that death squads (going back to in some instances to the 14th century when they wore black armor and essentially pillaged the countryside to gain obedience).

Also look at the casualty numbers for Russian from WWII, it is around 10,000,000 military deaths alone with total number dead is over 23,000,000! That is over 14 percent of their population. This man sent millions of troops to there deaths, many times without weapons to use as human shields...there is a lot more i could say but i will hold here...

Oh and dont get me started on Japanese brutality during WWII

(none of these comments are meant to be racist be any means)

[magley64]

holocaust deniers are idiots...

same as moon landing conspiracy theorists, WTC conspiracy theorists, WBC, and the KKK...all utter morons full of misinformation.

I wouldn't worry too much about them or their opinions

jus my $.02

[shittygsxr]

True... stalin was a real sunnuvabitch... he made Saddam Hussein look like Wayne Brady.

Wait a minute, Wayne Brady is no slouch and I don't think you would say that to his face