gixxie750 Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Should they be taxed like the rest of us? Not a fight on belief but more on the amount of money we are talkin. This stems from my income taxes i have paid and the super huge muti million $ church they are building near me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAMBUSA Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxie750 Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Why is always a good question. Because it winter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter12 Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Invalid poll.... No option for H&B... I'm not sure what to think on this. I'll have to think about this one for a bit.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxie750 Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 No' date=' they shouldn't be taxed because they don't produce taxable goods/services. You are upset about being taxed, as well you should be, but the taxes you are forced to pay are morally unjust. You shouldn't be forced to pay a tax on your labor, but making the church pay taxes so you can feel better is definitely not the right solution to this problem.[/quote']I know,but the churches are so dam big and cost mass $$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Something isnt fair there. If they had to pay taxes their big churches would be more walmart bldg like. I will take pics of this church they are bldg so u can understand. Taxes suck yes. The dam welfare sux yes. but touchdown jesus is a prime example of too much $$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Church of Socialism. Everyone's lives are easier comrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxie750 Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 So you believe the government should make money off of freely donated money? Who cares if the church is huge? Taking money from another person won't make your life any easier. It'll just make life harder for someone else. Is that what you're advocating? No need to take pics. I know what a MegaChurch looks like. It's disgusting' date=' but not something that ought to be taxed because you don't like it.. or worse, because "it's not fair".[/quote']yes donated money should be taxed if they can afford to build those churches with the money. My money isnt donated i shovel poop for it and its my choice,but i earn it with a shovel not a collection box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-flores Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 yes donated money should be taxed if they can afford to build those churches with the money. My money isnt donated i shovel poop for it and its my choice,but i earn it with a shovel not a collection box.It's still donated money.... I don't see where you are going with this? Should toys for tots get taxed for their efforts? That's the same question you are asking about the church.... They are not suplying a service like you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxie750 Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 i cant answer all these questions. I just know if theres toys for kids good. OR donating money/time to help a cause good. I dont see O.R with a giant castle with satues of bikes and bike shaped plants and a giant fountain in the front with a life size ohio statue. I Toys for tots runs out of a beat up old semi or a temp leased bldg. There is no good reason the churches can afford this other than they are exempt from what any other private org pay. Its late and i cant think strait,but i started this just to see what people thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I think they get all that money because of the people that go to the Church give 10+% of their money to the Church for tithes. The average income in Ohio is about 40,000 a year. 10% is 4,000 a year pp. You get like.... 300 people that go to your church and thats roughly 1,200,000 a year. Plus the other donations and what not... and you got yourself a lot of money. Even if you subtract 23% (roughly again) for taxes you still have 924,000. If you are in the same church for a while then that money will add up to A LOT really quick and what do ya know... you can build a church with a "touchdown Jesus" in front of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxie750 Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 i know why i'm poor. Its these dam bikes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 You shouldn't' date=' but you can. [/quote']Sometimes you have to do what works not what you want. As long as it doesnt prohibit it in the Bible... so be it. If their goal was to get even 1 more person brought to Christianity by putting that up, and it worked, then they succeeded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 (quietly tiptoes for exit...)Ha ha ha ha.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAMBUSA Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 The "touchdown Jesus" reminds me of the worshiping of idols. Jesus was humble and taught others to be humble. He wasn't a ginormous figure 10000 times bigger than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-flores Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 i cant answer all these questions. I just know if theres toys for kids good. OR donating money/time to help a cause good. I dont see O.R with a giant castle with satues of bikes and bike shaped plants and a giant fountain in the front with a life size ohio statue. I Toys for tots runs out of a beat up old semi or a temp leased bldg. There is no good reason the churches can afford this other than they are exempt from what any other private org pay. Its late and i cant think strait,but i started this just to see what people thought.Alright let's sum things up here in my perspective. Yeah I'm a church kid, do I believe a church should be taxed? No, maybe a biased opinion but do I think the money I put twards the church should be used for mascarading a 50ft tall statue of Jesus that I may or may not have kicked a football or two trough, hell no. If you would rather be a group of materialistic jerks have at it but the money to build a halarity such as T.D. Jesus could have gone elsewhere to do better in this world and in our community in my opinion. I know this crap is happening many places in churches and it is disgusting but there are churches and people of the church that actually care about the people and our world and should that be punished by others actions?Secondly on the part of the "mega church" do I believe in them? To an extent.... I was just at one last weekend and yeah it's a bit overdone and yeah there is wasted money, yeah money that could go to better and more efficient causes. But a large group of people focused on one goal can get more acomplished than a smaller one. The church I was at last week participated in a toy drive and close to 6,000 people participated and close to half gave 3 or more gifts. I know this sounds like boasting but I am just giving an example. There is no way a church of a 200-300 could pull off such a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Punk Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 My vote is yes. Any money I spend after it has already been taxed is subject to being taxed again, I don't see that as an argument here. If I buy a ticket to a movie the money the theater makes for entertaining me is taxed nothing is produced. People utilizing the services a church provides drive on our roads, use the improvements to the property, have the safety services at their disposal all made possible by our taxes why should they get to have a service provided for them off of our backs? I don't like our current tax structure but I don't like to see it applied as a tool to punish or reward different groups of people. I hate the Amish fucks freeloading off of our backs in the name of religion. If you are going to reap the rewards of our society you should contribute to them. Draft dodging scum sucking leaches is all they are. A personal one man (woman) tax would be the fairest tax possible to implement but you couldn't punish the rich by charging them more with it or reward the underachievers by reducing it so it will never fly. I don't mind paying taxes for national defense and infrastructure these are things that benefit us all. If I can stop paying taxes I would be in a better financial situation, if all of us stopped paying taxes none of our standards of living would change because prices for goods would adjust. Yes I do believe charities should be taxed also. I have worked for toys for tots and give a decent percentage of my income to charities also including a church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Punk Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Taxing all value added vehicles equally will not prohibit free exercise of it. This is a slippery slope I agree that is why I don't like seeing taxes used as punishment or reward. If all religions or churches were taxed equally nothing has been prohibited. We have freedom to choose how we worship and our government is not allowed to impose a national religion. We don't keep religious values out of our laws just because they have a tie to religion. Thou shalt not kill is a sound social law with far reaching social consequences. We don't ignore the fact that such a law has value just because a religion has used it as part of their teachings. Taxing churches will give them no more power in government than any other social group has. As a practical sense it's hard to get two religions to agree with each other one will not dominate the political landscape unless crusade tactics are implemented. People get what kind of government they want or deserve based on their input. If teachings from religion make it into our laws it's not because they come from religion it's because they are wise intelligent social rules that are necessary for large populations of people to get along. If religion didn't exist most social laws would still be here because of experience living with the results of actions that can't be sustained. Religion doesn't have the market on morality cornered they have just marketed it better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOW Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I was hoping to see a just "no" selection.....90% of a church's income comes from donations from it's flock. Since I already pay income taxes, property tax, sales tax, fuel tax, and just a tax for fucking breathing, don't think my donation to them should be taxed again. Not to mention if we start taxing the church then your donations wouldn't be tax deductable any longer and most of the larger donations to churches are for tax break reasons and not true charity. Just my 2 cents though.I'm a card carrying anti-christ so really don't care about the organized religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin0469 Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I'm going to ignore the posts about stuff other than the taxes topic and say churches shouldn't be taxed. You are asking if a non-profit organization should be taxed, and the answer, is obviously no. Then every non-profit org would have to be taxed. Furthermore, like AOW said, they operate mostly off of donations, not your money. If you don't like them being there or think it's not fair how big their building is, don't contribute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I'm going to ignore the posts about stuff other than the taxes topic and say churches shouldn't be taxed. You are asking if a non-profit organization should be taxed, and the answer, is obviously no. Then every non-profit org would have to be taxed. Furthermore, like AOW said, they operate mostly off of donations, not your money. If you don't like them being there or think it's not fair how big their building is, don't contribute.Church doesn't equal typical non-profit. Churches as a non-profit are actually considered a special case (as IP noted earlier) due to First Amendment concerns: "respecting an establishment of religion" and there's no "prohibiting the free exercise thereof."Personally I think it's a weak excuse. If anything not taxing Churches based on that treats them as special and not equal purely based on religion. Taxing them like any other business that provides a service or allowing them to fall under some of the same laws that allow private country clubs to operate as non profits would be more appropriate. By making a law that says 'Churches' aren't taxed in its self can be seen as making a law "respecting an establishment of religion." A stretch? Maybe. It does however break neutrality in regards to religion in general (religious organization vs non-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangBruhY Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 If you tax churches, like the big one that's moving in... What would happen to small churches who have NO money and are trying to start up?Money that churches receive are donations. They aren't charged. The church doesn't bill the members. That's the difference.If you want to go that route, then the Red Cross needs to be taxed. They collect donations as well as give them away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 If you tax churches, like the big one that's moving in... What would happen to small churches who have NO money and are trying to start up?Money that churches receive are donations. They aren't charged. The church doesn't bill the members. That's the difference.If you want to go that route, then the Red Cross needs to be taxed. They collect donations as well as give them away.That argument doesn't work. The Red Cross is purely a charity. A church != charity. That's why we have different types of non-profits already including some that do charge members and some that work purely on donations.I'm really not sure it should matter the size or if they are trying to start up. If they don't just follow under non-profit rules the exist for other organizations, most new and small businesses already receive additional tax breaks/incentives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 All good points.. by both sides. (except for the OP) Another reason this doesn't/won't happen is it would be political suicide for any Congressperson to even suggest.and that's exactly it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxie750 Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 and that's exactly it...Thats why it hasnt happend period. Churches may not "bill" their members,but they do pass the pressure plate around every time. I would totally not tax churches if members could take the money out of the plate or jar anytime they needed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Wow... "pressure plate"?? What kind of crazy ass guilt do you live with' date=' man? I find it funny [b']that you condone taxation without representation but you condemn freely donated contributions. You do realize that if I don't give my money to the church it's no big deal, but if I don't give my money to the government I go to jail, right? Plus, no church I've ever heard of would deny any services, food or shelter to someone that didn't give money.I know it wasn't in response to me but I'm not sure I understand that statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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