Creatine.... Anybody use(d) it?

[Fonzie]

Is it legit or a myth?

Ever heard of 6 Star Muscle or Body Fortress brands? Any good, or garbage? I'm more familiar with EAS, TwinLab, or MetRx, but didn't see any of those at WallyWorld tonight. I'm not into brand name for brand name sake when a generic can be just as good, but also know sometimes you get what you pay for

2 teenage boys starting to lift again for football, & supposedly coach has recommended this, as have some of their buddies. I've always heard about it, but never used it before, & doing some homework before I let them

[ohdaho]

Its legal.

I am by no means a body builder..or even lean. But I used to by supplements from bodybuilding.com. Good articles on everything from supps to routines. Its amazing the coach is just going to recommend shit without giving proper directions.

Make sure you hydrate ALOT when on creatine.

[Fonzie]

I am by no means a body builder..or even lean. But I used to by supplements from bodybuilding.com. Good articles on everything from supps to routines.

That's ironic.... I was just reading an article about it on Bodybuilding.com while you were typing your post

[Hoblick]

my brother in law owns his own supplement line.. well him and a pro football player for the colts are joint owners

www.musclepharm.com

they sponsor quite a few UFC fighters, and football players.

and he uses it himself (he is a personal trainer, body builder, competitve weight lifter, owns his own gym as well)

its pretty good stuff from what he says.

they have all sorts of supplements

[cmoosego]

I used to use creatine and some of the other protein powder shakes, I primarily used the GNC brands... watch for ingredients you don't need. Also, make sure they stay hydrated. If you need any advice on programs or lifting schedules let me know.. I was a competitive power lifter before I injured my shoulder... I can get the boys max bench up in a matter of weeks, as well as their leg press. also I can write up a food schedule to go with the workout schedule...I can have them up to weight before summer practice comes..

[Likwid]

I've used it before, but nothing special, just small amounts by pill.... never anything extreme.

Never noticed a huge difference *shrug*

[Artmageddon]

Creatine is okay. Don't expect huge gains, but it can help a bit. I think it is okay for high schoolers. I think there are better supplements out there now.

When I ran track in college, I used it and another called dibencozide(its some kind of super b12) that no one talks about and I thought was awesome. Gave me tons of energy and stamina. I was a stick thin sprinter that has the metabolism of a small bird though, I think Dibencozide is more for weight gain. Really hard to find the good stuff now though.

[Gump]

I've taken Creatine before and noticed nothing. Waste of money. Just eat high proteins.

[redkow97]

In college, I could have reasonably said I was into bodybuilding, and I would have been big enough that you wouldn't have had the balls to laugh at me

These days I'm about 10 lbs smaller, and not nearly as strong, but I'm still in good shape and work out 4-6 days a week. I take creatine more as a motivator than anything else. (i.e. "well, I took creatine - if i skip my workout now, i'm just wasting money and hurting my liver")

Creatine works. there are studies to back that up. It increases strength and overall muscle-mass. It's not a dramatic effect, but it's real.

The very very basic explanation is that creatine holds more water in your muscles. As a result, you can work out longer/harder, you recover a bit faster, and you gain weight. Initially, the weight gain is because of the additional water you're holding, but there will be muscle growth if you use it consistently and continue working out.

I am a firm believer that any creatine supplement needs to be cycled. Your body produces creatine naturally, but if you start supplementing, your body eventually compensates by slowing its own production. For a 'regular' creatine monohydrate supplement, I do 1-2 months on, and 1 month off.

I'd recommend the same for high-school athletes.

The more 'extreme' creatine supplements like NO Xplode or NO Shotgun have nitric oxide (or soemthing) that supposedly makes the creatine absorb better and quicker. They also have large doses of caffeine. I actually really like NO Xplode, but I wouldn't call it 'healthy' by any stretch.

As i mentioned before, excess creatine can damage your liver. It's relatively harmless if you work out, and actually draw it into your muscles where it's utilized, but if you just take it and don't do anything strenuous, your liver has to filter it, just like anything else you put through your system.

For high school kids, I'd start them on a small regiment of creatine monohydrate, and it will always depend on the kid. I barely needed to shave until my senior year of college, so I don't think any amount of creatine would have made me bigger in high school.

to put things in perspective:

when i started working out at 20 yrs old, I weighed under 150lbs.

On my 21st birthday, I remember telling them to put 165 lbs on my license thinking, "I'm at 163 - i'll get to 165," and really struggling to get there.

in the year that followed, I started taking supplements, and continuing to work out. I graduated college weighing 187 lbs, and could bench press 265 or so. If I'd been smarter about my workouts (i.e. not completely ignored my legs), I probably would have weighed more like 205.

today, I do not ignore legs, and i work out almost as hard as I was then - i just don't supplement nearly as much, and I can't eat 6 times a day like I did in college. I walk around at 178 lbs.

Edited February 12, 2010 by redkow97

[KL9 F4i]

I used to use creatine and some of the other protein powder shakes, I primarily used the GNC brands... watch for ingredients you don't need. Also, make sure they stay hydrated. If you need any advice on programs or lifting schedules let me know.. I was a competitive power lifter before I injured my shoulder... I can get the boys max bench up in a matter of weeks, as well as their leg press. also I can write up a food schedule to go with the workout schedule...I can have them up to weight before summer practice comes..

I used to take creatine as well...also messed up my shoulder by convincing myself i could max out more than my body could handle...I also went through a weird stage of anger and depression when I stopped taking it...IMO stick with natural foods good carbs and lean meats and protiens and you will be good...i know plenty of physical trainers and boxers who avoid all the supplement b.s. And perform as well if not better than those on supplements...im not saying supplements don't work at all I just found it's easier and cheaper to avoid supplements

[Disclaimer]

IMO stick with natural foods good carbs and lean meats and protiens and you will be good...i know plenty of physical trainers and boxers who avoid all the supplement b.s. And perform as well if not better than those on supplements...im not saying supplements don't work at all I just found it's easier and cheaper to avoid supplements

Not only in your opinion.... mine as well.

Fonz, unless your kids are seriously going to grow up and be top athletes in their respective sports - I wouldn't subject their bodies to any supplements beyond what they get in a healthy diet. If they're going to be the next 'Who Dat' or McGwire... then you're already too late. You should've been juicing them YEARS ago.

[ohdaho]

[redkow97]

Creatine is not remotely hormonal. I've never seen any data that even remotely suggests it can cause depression, anger, or aggression. If that's a possible side-effect, that's certainly news to me...

'Andro' is a different story, and I'd avoid it. I believe andro is a "pro-hormone," which stimulates your body to produce more testosterone. Now THAT is toying with nature a bit too much for my liking.

Creatine is naturally ingested via red meat... supplementing it is no different than eating steak 3 times a day; except that you don't get the cholesterol and fat (or the delicious taste)

[Fonzie]

I used to use creatine and some of the other protein powder shakes, I primarily used the GNC brands... watch for ingredients you don't need. Also, make sure they stay hydrated. If you need any advice on programs or lifting schedules let me know.. I was a competitive power lifter before I injured my shoulder... I can get the boys max bench up in a matter of weeks, as well as their leg press. also I can write up a food schedule to go with the workout schedule...I can have them up to weight before summer practice comes..

Thanx for the offer Chris! They're on a pretty set lift schedule at the high school that I think the trainer devised & monitors, as the boys have to keep it updated each session

Not tryin' to put weight on my middle son.... Actually want him to just maintain at this point. Just tryin' to give him an advantage strength wise as he gets ready to move to the next level with freshmen ball. He's my Mini Me.... Just not so mini anymore... He's turning into a mini beast. Kid's had arm pit & leg hair since he was like 11 or 12

Gonna be 15 in a couple months... 5 foot 9, was 185lb to start football 6 months ago, up to about 200 now. Little bit of a baby gut, but strong as a bull & solid muscle in his legs! Played both ways all season, as pulling guard, defensive end/middle & strong side linebacker, + special teams & they even surprised him with a few carries during one game. Finished 1st place 2 years ago in shot put for entire Toledo Diocese, & IIRC 6th last year when he moved up to the 7th/8th grade division

Surprising stamina & quickness for his size.... Finishes laps with the first pack of speed kids usually (QB, RB, WR, DB's), front few on suicides with his basketball team, ran 5k with me a couple months ago.... Stopped to come in the house & change shoes & still beat me by a couple blocks (granted.... I'm a tuurrrtle)

He began lifting at the high school last month, & started out benching almost 150

Anyway.... Don't wanna come off as braggy, but this is why I'm askin' about the creatine. I think he's got a lot of natural ability, but it's a big school up here, with a lot of $$ & politics BS (which we aren't privvy to), so I want to make sure he stands out & maximizes his potential, rather than getting swept over because we're just average joes. This is the same school Ben Roethlisberger got stuck playing wide receiver at his junior year, in favor of the coach's kid at QB, if that tells you anything

Here's a couple pix of him from last season, #56 powder blue, high socks & yellow cleats.....

Pulling to lead block.....

Lead blocking on a sweep.....

Timmmmberrrrr!

Blocking the biggest kid on the other team....

Opening a hole against that same kid again.....

Tackling & stripping.....

Rippin' one out.....

Come to daddy....

Sprinting from the other side of field to block on our interception return....

Breaking through the line in pursuit.....

Meeting at the ball carrier....

Knockin' another ball loose.....

Edited February 12, 2010 by Fonzie

[Ron Burgundy]

i use creatine everyday, SIZE ON and SUPERPUMP 250. Also use AXIS-HT for recovery. ive gained alot of strength and size for the 5 months ive been on it. just make sure you eat healthy with a high protein low carb diet.

[smashweights]

i was into the bodybuilding scene all 4 years in college and actually competed in the ONBF Mr. Natural Ohio back in 2006 taking 1st in under 24, novice, and 2nd in lightweight and i'd never train without it. just make sure they're drinking lots of water to see maximum benefits and avoid dehydration. gallon per day is the recommendation, just fill an old milk jug and make em finish it over the day. definitely noticed increases in strength and size, but that's NOT in absence of a strong diet plan and solid workout routine, which are SIGNIFICANTLY more important. if they want anymore info, i'd be glad to help, though i'm surprised their coach is recommending it. not too often you see coaches sticking their necks out on supplements cause if anything happens to them on the field, i GUARANTEE it will get the blame and the coach will be held responsible.

i wouldnt bother spending the money on the fancy creatine combo mixes, just get some cheap creatine monohydrate from www.bulknutrition.com and avoid GNC like the plague if you wanna save money.

also, i didnt notice they're 15, not sure how you feel about supplements and their age, not that i have any reason to say it's a bad idea, just never keen on recommending things for kids.

Edited February 12, 2010 by smashweights

[siggywiggy]

In college, I could have reasonably said I was into bodybuilding, and I would have been big enough that you wouldn't have had the balls to laugh at me

These days I'm about 10 lbs smaller, and not nearly as strong, but I'm still in good shape and work out 4-6 days a week. I take creatine more as a motivator than anything else. (i.e. "well, I took creatine - if i skip my workout now, i'm just wasting money and hurting my liver")

Creatine works. there are studies to back that up. It increases strength and overall muscle-mass. It's not a dramatic effect, but it's real.

The very very basic explanation is that creatine holds more water in your muscles. As a result, you can work out longer/harder, you recover a bit faster, and you gain weight. Initially, the weight gain is because of the additional water you're holding, but there will be muscle growth if you use it consistently and continue working out.

I am a firm believer that any creatine supplement needs to be cycled. Your body produces creatine naturally, but if you start supplementing, your body eventually compensates by slowing its own production. For a 'regular' creatine monohydrate supplement, I do 1-2 months on, and 1 month off.

I'd recommend the same for high-school athletes.

The more 'extreme' creatine supplements like NO Xplode or NO Shotgun have nitric oxide (or soemthing) that supposedly makes the creatine absorb better and quicker. They also have large doses of caffeine. I actually really like NO Xplode, but I wouldn't call it 'healthy' by any stretch.

As i mentioned before, excess creatine can damage your liver. It's relatively harmless if you work out, and actually draw it into your muscles where it's utilized, but if you just take it and don't do anything strenuous, your liver has to filter it, just like anything else you put through your system.

For high school kids, I'd start them on a small regiment of creatine monohydrate, and it will always depend on the kid. I barely needed to shave until my senior year of college, so I don't think any amount of creatine would have made me bigger in high school.

to put things in perspective:

when i started working out at 20 yrs old, I weighed under 150lbs.

On my 21st birthday, I remember telling them to put 165 lbs on my license thinking, "I'm at 163 - i'll get to 165," and really struggling to get there.

in the year that followed, I started taking supplements, and continuing to work out. I graduated college weighing 187 lbs, and could bench press 265 or so. If I'd been smarter about my workouts (i.e. not completely ignored my legs), I probably would have weighed more like 205.

today, I do not ignore legs, and i work out almost as hard as I was then - i just don't supplement nearly as much, and I can't eat 6 times a day like I did in college. I walk around at 178 lbs.

^^^ this is right on...exactly what i experienced. 1-2 months on..take a break for a month then back on. You will lose what you have gained if you don't take a break and work your muscles being off of it. Just REMEMBER creatine effects every muscle in your body...so if your on it a long time it will effect your heart...etc.

[that dude]

fuck creatine- deca and wynn ftw

[redkow97]

there is undoubtedly a mental element to working out. You could call it a placebo effect if the athlete is in the dark. (Fonzie - if your son is hell-bent on taking creatine, experimenting with some deception might not be the worst idea...)

As I mentioned, I use creatine as a motivator these days. If i take NO Xplode (pretty expensive) at noon, I know i HAVE to go work out at 12:30, or 1) it probably hurts my liver, and 2), I'm wasting money.

There are certainly times I'm in the gym where I think, "well, i'm about done..." and I still do 2 or 3 more sets of some exercise I hate, simply because I persuade myself that I need to get my money's worth out of the supplement.

one other thing I don't think anyone has mentioned - Most creatine supplements will have instructions for a "loading phase." I have NEVER observed those, and don't see the need.

first, you're ingesting something new to your body, or at least in higher doses than normal. If you're sensitive to it, you want to find that out with a small dose, not a "loading" dose.

second, there's a lot of people who beleive the 'loading' phase is just a way for you to use up the product more quickly, so you buy more. Your body can only absorb so much creatine. Taking triple that amount is just a waste of money...

[steveH]

I currently use Cell-Tech Hardcore by Muscletech and i works good for me but can get expensive if your boys are serious about their lifting routines. It has never caused any problems for me just be sure to drink LOTS of water. massnutrition.com is the cheapest place I have found to get it.

[Fonzie]

....though i'm surprised their coach is recommending it. not too often you see coaches sticking their necks out on supplements cause if anything happens to them on the field, i GUARANTEE it will get the blame and the coach will be held responsible.

I don't know for sure the coach did. We were talking about all this with one of their buddy's, & he said the coach recommended it. Who knows if that's official, or just a side comment in the weight room??

.... and avoid GNC like the plague if you wanna save money.

Agreed.... That's why I was lookin' at what WallyWorld had last night

^^^ this is right on...exactly what i experienced. 1-2 months on..take a break for a month then back on. You will lose what you have gained if you don't take a break and work your muscles being off of it. Just REMEMBER creatine effects every muscle in your body...so if your on it a long time it will effect your heart...etc.

Been reading a little about cycling.... Sounds like the smart idea

(Fonzie - if your son is hell-bent on taking creatine, experimenting with some deception might not be the worst idea...)

He hasn't said anything about it since their conversation the other day. I'm just doing some homework ahead of time to see if it's appropriate &/or harmful at their age

one other thing I don't think anyone has mentioned - Most creatine supplements will have instructions for a "loading phase." I have NEVER observed those, and don't see the need.

I was reading about loading last night, on that Bodybuilding.com.....

4. How much should be taken? Are there any side effects?

Excellent results have been observed in taking creatine monohydrate in two different ways. The first way is called loading. This method works very well for anyone who has never taken creatine before. Just as the name implies, it involves loading up or saturating your muscles with creatine. During the first four days to a week, take 20 to 30 grams per day. Mix it with non-acidic juice or water. Grape juice works well. After this loading period, take a regular intake of between five to fifteen grams per day to keep your muscles saturated (no need to over do it). The other method is a more gradual approach to supplementing with creatine monohydrate. Over the course of an extended period, one basically skips the loading phase and just supplements with five to fifteen grams per day, everyday. The best results have been noticed when creatine is combined with a high carbohydrate base, such as dextrose (glucose) and taken about one-half hour before training.

first, you're ingesting something new to your body, or at least in higher doses than normal. If you're sensitive to it, you want to find that out with a small dose, not a "loading" dose.

Makes sense

second, there's a lot of people who beleive the 'loading' phase is just a way for you to use up the product more quickly, so you buy more. Your body can only absorb so much creatine. Taking triple that amount is just a waste of money...

Such cynics.... Big business would never do that, would they?!? Edited February 12, 2010 by Fonzie

[KL9 F4i]

Creatine is not remotely hormonal. I've never seen any data that even remotely suggests it can cause depression, anger, or aggression. If that's a possible side-effect, that's certainly news to me...)

It varies amongst users one persons body reacts differently than another...I just did a quick research and its definitely online just do a quick google search...Idk what caused it and by no means am i saying youre wrong I personally no longer take supplements i just physically feel better with out them.... I tried a bunch of stuff simply because im not the biggest guy around and I have such a fast metabolism its pretty difficult for me to put on much weight. The whole supplement thing just isnt for me I guess.

[smashweights]

i'm not sure where you're getting the liver-damaging ideas on creatine but i've never heard that before, only the suspected, though unfounded idea that it may damage kidneys.

secondly, wally world is still overpriced. bulknutrition is where i get all my stuff, just get it in big quantities and save money.

take a gander though this link if you need some good information on helping them bulk up and add strength. i wrote this a long ways back in the peak of my lifting life.

http://forums.bulknutrition.com/?act=ST&f=4&t=32902&st=0#entry354103

[ReconRat]

creatine = methyl guanidine-acetic acid

I remember reading up on it, since it's apparently one of the favored "lean machine" supplemental dietary substances. The one thing I remember from the more authoritative websites, was to be cautious of stomach problems. It is an acidic substance, and can cause stomach problems. But so is aspirin, and unknown numbers of people have hurt themselves with aspirin and acetaminophen by ingesting on empty stomachs. Even vitamins are hard to take on an empty stomach...

[smashweights]

creatine also = amino acid. personally, i never noticed any stomach issues, but then again, i always mixed it in with my protein shakes, so something always went in my stomach with it.