Steve Butters Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 (edited) ok well the vmax has been having starting issues...ever since it got cold it wouldnt wanna fire upi assumed it was the battery, but it also sounds like maybe the starterbattery looks like this does that mean i need to add water to it until its up to the upper level? ive never had a battery that wasnt maintenance free..also, it has 12.7v across the terminalsnow the starter, when i push Start a lot of times it will free spin, then i stop and if i adjust the choke and then try again sometimes it will turn over, and after failing to start it will usually start free spinning again...what should i do? put water in the battery and replace the starter? is there something im missing about these batteries? or would the low water cause the bike to not start like that?can a starter be repaired instead of replaced? its $350.. i can buy a "Brush Set" thats $100, but im not familiar with what that is Edited March 8, 2010 by Steve Butters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Street Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 (edited) Battery water level is a little low. Use only distilled water to fill it, not tap water or you'll kill the battery. Fill it about half way between the lines upper and lower levels.12.7 volts sounds about right but water/acid level is important too. Try charging the battery and see if that helps. Next check the wires. Are they clean and in good shape? A fast test when the wire is hooked up is to measure from the terminal to the wire. You should have 0 volts. If you have 1 or 2 volts there is your problem, bad connection, not a bad battery.Starters use things called brushes to put the electric into the windings to make the starter motor spin. They are made of carbon and do wear out. The result of this is a dead starter. I have no idea what a brush kit should cost for your bike but $100 sounds high to me. $10 sounds more like it.From your description of the problem, after sitting for the winter, my money is on a bad connection. Loose or corroded connections will do just what you describe.But even so, fill the battery, give it a fresh charge, clean your contacts with a wire brush - both on the battery and on the starter, make it all shiny and try it again.Bet it starts this time. Edited March 8, 2010 by Strictly Street Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 Vmaxs' are very finicky about the battery being fresh. Thats a lot of motor for a weak battery to turn over. When mine got weak it gave me all sorts of weird issues. Buy a battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted March 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 (edited) ok well people on a vmax website said these bikes eat starter clutches and that is what is causing my problemsi pulled the side cover off and now i need to get a flywheel puller and ill pull the flywheel off and check out the starter clutchand it started acting up after having some low battery issues and trying to start it...i think i wore the clutch out spinning the starter too much...once i get the flywheel off ill check out the clutch and if it looks ok ill start looking for a loose connectioni could be wrong, but i was under the impression that if the battery wasnt feeding enough, the starter would just not spin..like in a car..also, it never really sat for winter...any day with dry ground i would fire it up and go for a short ride Edited March 8, 2010 by Steve Butters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 I'm telling you, its the battery. Try a good battery before tearing it apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Street Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 ok well people on a vmax website said these bikes eat starter clutches and that is what is causing my problemsi pulled the side cover off and now i need to get a flywheel puller and ill pull the flywheel off and check out the starter clutchand it started acting up after having some low battery issues and trying to start it...i think i wore the clutch out spinning the starter too much...once i get the flywheel off ill check out the clutch and if it looks ok ill start looking for a loose connectioni could be wrong, but i was under the impression that if the battery wasnt feeding enough, the starter would just not spin..like in a car..also, it never really sat for winter...any day with dry ground i would fire it up and go for a short ride"Starter clutch" don't know about the V-max but that sure sounds like it would try even if the battery was low.Just a guess but I'm thinking the starter clutch has to spin up to speed before it engages the starter. Kinda like the bendix gear on an old mopar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 Borrow a battery load tester from auto zone and check it. It could be putting out 12.7v but still be shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted March 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 (edited) I'm telling you, its the battery. Try a good battery before tearing it apart.if it was the battery, wouldnt it just crank over real slow and not start, and then eventually not even crank over?"Starter clutch" don't know about the V-max but that sure sounds like it would try even if the battery was low.Just a guess but I'm thinking the starter clutch has to spin up to speed before it engages the starter. Kinda like the bendix gear on an old mopar.it does try...if you hit start it just free spins and makes a loud clicking sound, if the clutch went bad then the starter would not be engaging right, just free spinning causing the noise?i hope its the battery, but i just dont see how it could be...and i dont have $70 to spend on a battery and then find out that it wasnt even the battery to begin with....ive had tons of low/dead batteries before in my cars, and never have they made this noise...only time ive heard this noise was on a van that had a burned up starter...it doesnt have a problem getting juice or spinning, it spins fast and right away etc...its just not engaging to spin anything so its free spinninglow battery should make it turn over very slowly...not spin the starter a thousand mph without engaging ...right?if not, please explain it to me...i guess im not understanding... Edited March 8, 2010 by Steve Butters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Pony Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 Tyler- bring your battery up to the shop today, we'll put a load tester on it and see what kind of shape it's in. Then you can go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 if it was the battery, wouldnt it just crank over real slow and not start, and then eventually not even crank over?Bad batteries in bikes do some really crazy stuff. Very crazy. It could be that it is not strong enough to spin the starter fast enough to engage the starter clutch. That is a very real possibility. Whenever you have electrical problems on a bike you always check the battery. If it isn't the battery then you check the battery again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponyjr Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 His battery may be weak, but the starter is indeed making grinding/damaged teeth noises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Pony Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 :nono:His battery may be weak, but the starter is indeed making grinding/damaged teeth noises.Key thought you had......"his battery may be weak" your thought should have ended there. Fix your "known" problems first, you never know when they might cure your "unknown" problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Pony Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 Wow!! How did you do that? That's exactly what I wanted to say' date=' but the words I was coming up with were NSFW. [/quote']unfortunately i know both of these clowns. (JR and OP) They are young and dumb and full of.........you know the rest. Sometimes they think they know everything, and that some guy whose been around the block cant possiby tell them anything they dont already know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted March 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 (edited) who are you "Iron Pony"? tombs?ill bring the battery to pony tomorrow and have it tested...side cover needed to come off anyways because i noticed it was leaking, so at the moment im not to far into anything...shoulda changed the gasket before i changed the oil, but oh welland its not that i think i know more than anyone here, but it just doesnt seem right the noises im hearing being affected by the battery when i have a mustang out in my garage with a bad battery right now i can go crank and not hear the noises...posted this on a vmax website same time as here and they crawled out of the woodworks yelling starter clutch, and one guy builds race engines out of these so i assumed he knew his way around them....those two things together made me doubt that its the battery...ill take it to pony tomorrow and have it tested and ill go from there...ill post up whenever i find outalso.... if the battery was junk, why would the starter sometimes catch and fire the bike up, and sometimes just free spin....when it engages, the bike will start usually...guess im just looking for a decent explanation before i drop $70 that i dont have on a battery and then have to spend another $100 or whatever on the starter clutch...ide like to ride this thing soon, and the more i have to spend the longer it goes on hold..."bikes do weird things when the battery is low" isnt as technical as the responces ive been seeing on the vmax site, so i guess im just looking for someone to explain it better to me in a way i can understand rather than just saying they do weird things....if the battery was bad, i dont see why it would sometimes turn over and sometimes not...and why sometimes it would start...when it does turn over, it cranks fast like a fully charged battery and will usually fire up unless its extremely cold...ill bring the battery up to pony tomorrow if i get some free time Edited March 9, 2010 by Steve Butters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted March 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 im also being told the most common problem is the 3 bolts that hold the clutch to the flywheel get messed up...and you can tell in the pic that the 2 visible arent in the same location depth wise...one of them i cant even hardly feel with my finger...which is another reason im leaning towards it being this clutch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 12.7v is borderline bad. Your battery should have 13.5v to 14.5v. If it doesn't, charge it. (And correct that water level, distilled water please.)If it doesn't charge up to 13.5v-14.5v, replace it.You have to get that battery back up to the proper voltage first.If you want to make sure, jump the bike from another battery that is good, and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester851 Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 im also being told the most common problem is the 3 bolts that hold the clutch to the flywheel get messed up...and you can tell in the pic that the 2 visible arent in the same location depth wise...one of them i cant even hardly feel with my finger...which is another reason im leaning towards it being this clutchyes tyler- its toombs, so is this. Also the voice of reason speaking to you. I don't doubt that the starter clutch may be an issue, this a known problem on vmax's. Recon is right 12.7 v is not very good, and im willing to bet knowing that and seeing the picture that your battery wont recover well from a load test. Spend the money on a battery, see what happens next, sometimes a weak battery will spin the starter but not always have enough oomph to kick the clutch, battery is first priority, never try to diagnose an unknown problem until you've fixed the know problem that may directly affect the unknown. A battery might fix it, but you may end up fixing the starter too. When you come in tomorrow, stop in the shop and talk to Justin Rice, he is pretty on good vmax's and should be able to point you in the right direction good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted March 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 yes tyler- its toombs, so is this. Also the voice of reason speaking to you. I don't doubt that the starter clutch may be an issue, this a known problem on vmax's. Recon is right 12.7 v is not very good, and im willing to bet knowing that and seeing the picture that your battery wont recover well from a load test. Spend the money on a battery, see what happens next, sometimes a weak battery will spin the starter but not always have enough oomph to kick the clutch, battery is first priority, never try to diagnose an unknown problem until you've fixed the know problem that may directly affect the unknown. A battery might fix it, but you may end up fixing the starter too. When you come in tomorrow, stop in the shop and talk to Justin Rice, he is pretty on good vmax's and should be able to point you in the right direction good luckok thanks toombs ill swing by today with my battery and have it tested...if the battery shows bad ill pick one up and get a side cover gasket and some oil and put it back together and try it again...if not ill have to bring the bike in to you guys to fix the starter clutch...couldnt get the flywheel bolt off for the life of me even with a big hammer and with my bad elbows ive had enoughalso i forgot, the 12.7 wasnt fully charged...i had tried to start the bike a few times before i pulled the battery, but i agree the battery looks like junk anyways....ill see you and justin later on todayshould i stop and buy some distilled water before i come in? or do you guys have that in that little station back there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted March 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 ok well the battery failed the load test, so i went ahead and bought a batterytalked to justin in the service dept at pony and he said the starter clutch is definately worn out also....going to be packing it up next time derek has a day off and taking it down there...dont have the air tools or puller here to get the flywheel off myself, so theyre going to do it for methanks everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrillo Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 good to hear you're on your way to a fix, but fyi, 12.7V is a dead battery no question about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheech Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 good to hear you're on your way to a fix, but fyi, 12.7V is a dead battery no question about it.yeppers. The second you start putting load on it those volts are going to dip faster than a potato chip in a french onion pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 yeppers. The second you start putting load on it those volts are going to dip faster than a potato chip in a french onion pool.wat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrillo Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 yeppers. The second you start putting load on it those volts are going to dip faster than a potato chip in a french onion pool.watHe said "The second you start putting load on it those volts are going to dip faster than a potato chip in a french onion pool." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrillo Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 Right? I know his eyes are half closed' date=' but I didn't realize it affected his e-hearing, too. [/quote'] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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