Health Care Passes... We are all screwed.O

[fusion]

probably because you prefer a complete public option, the same way many of the democrats weren't on board when they were trying to get it through the first time.

Yup keep changing my mind. You think I'm one of them dirty liberals too doncha?

[magley64]

fact is, this hybrid healthcare bullsh*t we've had forever just sucks...

either make the whole thing free market, or socialize it... make up my mind...

option 1: if we're going to make it free market, then medicare/medicaid goes out the window, and so does the requirements for hospitals to treat you...

now hospitals have to fight for your "business" by competing with one another.

it'll work, sure there will be a few casualties, but it'd be efficient.

option 2: the only other option is to socialize it further, and start putting some governemnt caps on bullshit. I don't necessarily trust the government to effectively cap bullshit, but it's worth a try to get some of this bullshit under control.

the governemnt has elected to go with option 2...

at least they are doing SOMETHING, instead of the constant back and forth "health care is f*cked up, what we gonna do about it? I dunno, lets debate our talking points again"

[dmagicglock]

read page 205 of the bill. It has a Table of premium percentage and actuarial value percentages based on income. I tried to post the table in here but it didn't format right. That being said, its not completely "free". But if I bought a new ducati for 1k dollars you'd still say it was stolen. So when my tax dollars subsidize insurance costs for other people who refuse to work; I still look at that as a handout.

[fusion]

Yea another broad brush!

[Disclaimer]

Unless you're making $200k+, I don't think your tax dollars will be subsidizing a lot - at least from what I understand on the tax structures. In fact, you might be one who's being subsidized?

I'm waiting for all our ORDN members making $200k+/yr to start voicing their complaints about how rough they have it, and won't be able to put food on their plates because they're subsidizing lazy good for nothing people making less than $200k/yr.

[dmagicglock]

did you not watch the video?

okay a shorter version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrXhxmQJSS0

oh and look at the scoreboard!

Edited March 25, 2010 by dmagicglock

[serpentracer]

LoLoL... you need to post a source for that or you're still just a party-line nut swinger in my book.

umm that's been a fact talked about on pretty much any news station there is. including fox.

the republicans wanted that in there for a certain reason. I think it has something to do with insurance companies lobying them to put it in there.

if you are going to protest something make sure you know what you are protesting. or you look like a party- line nut swinger yourself.

[magley64]

umm that's been a fact talked about on pretty much any news station there is. including fox.

ummm...NO this "pretty much everybody knows" line of argument holds ZERO water....

CITATION NEEDED!

[psyco1]

That said, it will be interesting to see what happens to Big Health once their antitrust provisions are gone and regulation sets in.

This is the antitrust exemption,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarran–Ferguson_Act

and should have been taken out in this bill. I doubt the SCOTUS is going to look at that, it's been in effect since 1945.

[r1crusher]

Just got this from our HSA provider:

Health Reform Bill Has Little Impact on HSAs

The passage of HR 3590 will have little impact on Health Savings Accounts (HSAs), but here are two changes to be aware of:

1. Effective January 1, 2011, tax free HSA dollars may no longer be used to purchase over-the-counter drugs not prescribed by a doctor.

2. Effective January 1, 2011, the tax on HSA distributions that are not used for qualified medical expenses will increase to 20% from 10%.

[fusion]

...Regardless of party line' date=' an "individual mandate" is immoral, illegal and completely out of the question.

[/quote']

This is true. Both sides have said many times for years that the system needs some sort of reform, but mandating the purchase of anything from a private company should be frowned upon. I'm not saying I would want them in the bill, but at least single payer or a public option would be more constitutional than what it currently is.

[jhl385]

No doubt there is some bad stuff in this bill, but it had to be done. The doctors and insurance companies fought this HARD! For many years. And guess what? They used your money to fight it. Millions and millions. Over the years 7 presidents tried to get this passed and none could beat the docs and ins. co's. Finally it happened. Too bad the republicans didn't have the balls to co-operate and have some input on this bill.

[RVTPilot]

If you have to stump to and educate the voting public on a bill AFTER you have signed it into law, you have made a mistake and grand injustice to your constituency, let alone the numerous millions that have no voice yet are subject to your policies. Period. And to the numerous representatives that kaw towed to the arm wringing and grandstanding of your colleagues and the president, shame on you for misrepresenting your constituents. You are their voice to leadership FOR them, not a mouthpiece to them from leadership. Good luck come November.

Edited March 26, 2010 by RVTPilot

[fusion]

That makes no sense. This is one of the items that Obama campaigned on and got elected on. I wasn't aware he has been stumping on it after signing it into law. If anything there are plenty of people that voted for him and the current House/Congress that are unhappy not because a Healthcare bill passed but that this one didn't go far enough. That mostly had to do with trying to compromise with the GOP side of the house.

Just because a group yells loudly doesn't mean they are the majority.

[jbot]

i'm not trying to make a point here, only providing a link for reference.

others who give a shit can compare how this healthcare reform plan matches up to the healthcare plan presented sometime during the campaign by obama/biden.

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/HealthCareFullPlan.pdf

[RVTPilot]

That makes no sense. This is one of the items that Obama campaigned on and got elected on. I wasn't aware he has been stumping on it after signing it into law. If anything there are plenty of people that voted for him and the current House/Congress that are unhappy not because a Healthcare bill passed but that this one didn't go far enough. That mostly had to do with trying to compromise with the GOP side of the house.

Just because a group yells loudly doesn't mean they are the majority.

He has been preaching healthcare reform since campaigning for the job, yes. But the details by which he was intending to execute that plan weren't completely made public until the very last minute. Why else was he in Iowa City starting the process of selling the American public on this. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-03-25-Obama_N.htm) Then, two days after signing it, he signs amendments to satisfy the Dems desire to remove abortion language from it? I just find it amazing that something of this magantude is so incomplete after having been signed. I would agree that there are plenty of those that voted for him, and got behind his idea OF reform (as it was necessary) but not the ideas executed FOR reform by this measure. There is still too great a burden placed on the public by way of taxes and requirements, and not enough regulation of the insurance industry. That was Kucinich's contention as one of the Dem NO votes, until his 11th hour crying of uncle to The President, against the wishes of those that elected him to represent them, not the President's agenda.

[fusion]

So you're complaint is that he is willing to compromise with others to accomplish a goal. Everyone knew he was signing the Executive Order restricting the use of Federal funds for elective abortions before the vote.

He isn't selling the Bill as much as he's challenging the Republicans on their continued culture of no, telling them to go for it when comes to claims of trying to repeal the bill. I'm not a fan of the bill but give me a fuggin' break.

[chevysoldier]

I'm curious...on the poll in this thread, how many people selected "no" because they think the bill isn't liberal enough?

[dmagicglock]

maybe they said no, because it doesn't do much if anything to address "reform". Lets see what the head of the DNC has to say about the bill (you can fast fwd to 1:30)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo_tWh40gaU

[fusion]

I selected no purely on the basis of the mandate. Nothing else in the bill matters to me when they go and do something like that.

[Disclaimer]

I'm waiting for my big foamcore check to come from the RNC, DNC, Big Pharma, or the Insurance industry before I tell you which way I'm voting.

[RVTPilot]

So you're complaint is that he is willing to compromise with others to accomplish a goal. Everyone knew he was signing the Executive Order restricting the use of Federal funds for elective abortions before the vote.

He isn't selling the Bill as much as he's challenging the Republicans on their continued culture of no, telling them to go for it when comes to claims of trying to repeal the bill. I'm not a fan of the bill but give me a fuggin' break.

No, I am not complaining that he is willing to compromise. In fact I am very much in support of compromise, which neither side seems to be very interested in doing with eachother. But these things should have been ironed out before it was signed, not after. It is the harried nature by which this thing was rushed through the process, and the way key votes were swayed by the voice of the person our representatives were voted in place to take our voice to, not making us subject to how he wants things to be. I was and am still for the reformation of healthcare in this country. There are some very important issues that this bill will meet the needs of. But to do so at the expense of one's liberty as well as leaving so many aspects of what is wrong with healtcare and the insurance industry is what bothers me. My beef is with our representation on both sides of the party lines. I would love to see the GOP'ers exercise better judgement and rather than simply sit back and say no because they don't like it engage the Dems and Mr. Prez and work towards a solution, not say no until the one you want falls in your lap. That is just as useless to the public as the Dem turncoats that flip-flopped at the last minute. And for the Pres to basically say "well, I said we were gonna do something, that is exactly what we're gonna do" shows a lack of respect for the democratic process.

[fusion]

There isn't a lack of respect for the process if the other team isn't participating. It's not like they didn't get the votes they need. He saved time by issuing an executive order instead of sending the whole thing back for a single change, wasting more time and money with the same crap that has been occurring on both sides for the past year. Hopefully with this initial bill passing (whether or not I don't like it) we can give some other items greater visibility. We have things like the economy, the mid-east conflicts and now potential escalation between North and South Korea (if the source of the explosion is confirmed) to deal with.

[fusion]

Am I confused or doesn't the Senate have to approve this bill still? It's not law just because Obama signed it. He just moved the process around a bit. Right?

I get confused by where in the process some of this crap is, but the Senate has already approved the bill that was signed and the House was voting to approve their changes if I remember correctly. The president doesn't get to sign it until it has approval from both, so I think that's how we got where we are.

[r1crusher]

I think people should be able to kick their representatives square in the junk/snatch when they fail to listen to their constituents.