Good CCW Pistol

[KL9 F4i]

Lol you guys bicker to F*ckin much but in all seriousness....I think Im sold on a rocket launcher w/ a bayonet on it (for close combat) for Open Carry...I figured no one could agree on a caliber size.... .380's are too weak to kill apparently and everyone seems to enjoy a .40 or .45 so Ill just go with the biggest thing i can find...lol i was told theres a gun show in dayton this weekend ...might hit it up and see which pistols my hands like and what is easy to carry for me regarding weight, size ect...my buddy has a an XD Tactical .45 that i found pretty easy to shoot...seems a little big for me to carry though..

[Likwid]

If it ain't a 45 then you have a small penis and you take it in the butt.

[drew95gt]

I dunno about the .380 being too weak...I wouldn't want to be hit by one. Personally I have a Kel-tec p32 with the extended mag and hollow points. Its so light, feels like you are carrying a cell phone and it is very slim and very easily concealable. The extended mag gives you the added grip you need to make it very comfortable in your hand. Call me a pussy but I like the .380's and .32's , however I would NOT go any smaller than these.

[chevysoldier]

If it ain't a 45 then you have a small penis and you take it in the butt.

Whew <wipes sweat off forehead>

[swingset]

45 has lots of knock down to it but lower penetration, 40 has better penetration and slightly lower knock down. This is why the majority of police use a .40. I personally know of 3 police departments that issue a M&P .40

Capacity and still retaining a manageable grip size for smaller hands plays a huge roll in that too....among agencies that standardize a handgun.

10mm for me, if I had monkey paws and could hide a hog-leg in my pants.

[turboglock]

THE STOPPING POWER OF DIFFERENT HANDGUN CARTRIDGES

2/22/2003

Posted on Sat Feb 22 2003 23:34:22 GMT-0500 (Eastern Standard Time) by 2nd_Amendment_Defender

General Julian Hatcher, a noted forensic pathologist, in the early 1900’s developed a good formula to determine the theoretical stopping power of a firearm cartridge. His formula has withstood the test of time and validation from other studies and data related to stopping power.

You want a handgun cartridge that has a Hatcher value of over 50 for the most effective stopping power. Values over 55 have diminishing returns in that you don’t gain any significant increase in stopping power for the extra recoil and control you must cope with. Handgun cartridges that don’t make a value of at least 50, should not considered for self-defense. If the rating of your handgun cartridge is under 30, it only has about a 30% chance of producing a one shot stop. Hatcher Ratings of 30 to 49 raise a one shot stop to approximately a 50% chance. Ratings of 50 or higher produce a one shot stop about 90% of the time.

Handgun Cartridge Type ..................... Hatcher Rating

.45 ACP full metal jacket 230 grain .......... 49.1

.45 ACP jacketed hollow point 230 grain ...... 60.7

.44 Magnum full metal jacket 240 grain ....... 92.3

*.44 Magnum lead wad cutter 240 grain ......... 136.8

.44 Special full metal jacket 240 grain ...... 51.6

*.44 Special lead wad cutter 240 grain ............. 76.5

.41 Magnum full metal jacket 230 grain ............. 54

*.41 Magnum lead wad cutter 230 grain .............. 80

10 millimeter full metal jacket 180 grain .......... 50.3

10 millimeter jacketed hollow point 180 grain ..62.1

.40 S&W full metal jacket flat nose 180 grain ...... 53.4

.40 S&W jacketed hollow point 180 grain ....... 59.4

.38 Special full metal jacket 158 grain ...... 26.7

*.38 Special lead wad cutter 158 grain ............. 39.7

**.357 Magnum full metal jacket 158 grain ..... 32.7

**.357 Magnum lead wad cutter 158 grain ............ 48.5

.357 SIG full metal jacket 147 grain ................ 36.6

.357 SIG jacketed hollow point 147 grain ..... 45.2

9 millimeter full metal jacket 147 grain ............ 32.3

9 millimeter jacketed hollow point 147 grain ... 39.9

.380 Auto jacketed hollow point 95 grain ..... 18.3

.32 Auto jacketed hollow point 71 grain ...... 11.1

.25 Auto jacketed hollow point 50 grain ...... 3.7

.22 Long Rifle jacketed hollow point 40 grain ... 4.2

* Jacketed hollow points will have the same rating as wad cutter bullets if the bullet hollow tip is greater than 1/2 of the caliber of the bullet.

* .357 Magnum ratings are taken from a firearm with a 3 inch barrel. Longer barrels will raise the rating of the round.

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Any functional handgun is better than no handgun at all. But I hear some people talk about how good the 9 millimeter, .380 Auto, or .38 Special rounds are. If you have the choice of a better handgun for self protection, buy it. Be sure you have the heaviest grain bullet you can get. Make sure it is a functional hollow point in your handgun.

[turboglock]

Capacity and still retaining a manageable grip size for smaller hands plays a huge roll in that too....among agencies that standardize a handgun.

10mm for me, if I had monkey paws and could hide a hog-leg in my pants.

here you go. I dont even know why im taking the time to do this but im all about being right

here is the link i for got to post it up

http://ohioriders.net/showthread.php?t=55945&page=6

[turboglock]

now i have also seen police studies on actual shootings to. just dont feel like looking everthing up just for some people that already have there minds made up.

[turboglock]

All of us have been exposed to the varying theories regarding which type of handgun bullet is best for defensive purposes. Some proponents (Dr. Julian Hatcher) believed that "bigger is better" while the National Institute of Justice performed a "computer man" study a number of years ago which suggested that light and fast bullets achieved the most lethal results.

As more and more data becomes available, theories change. Evan Marshall wrote definitive studies in 1992, 1996 and 2000 after examining the results of thousands of actual shootings. His conclusions came as a result of actual shootings and not from firing bullets into wet newspaper, gelatin or some other artificial medium.edium.

His data is based on "one shot stops". This is defined as: 1. a single hit to anywhere on the body not counting the head, neck or extremity shot: 2. when a subject stops shooting or striking blows if that was what he was doing and 3. runs no more than 10 feet before collapsing. In other words, Marshall’s studies examine what happens in the first few seconds after a shooting.

In the past decade, major advances have been made in bullet design which adds to the lethality of the projectile. Every major US bullet manufacturer has their own proprietary projective which they claim is best for the job at hand. New calibers such as the 357 SIG have appeared on the scene while more data has been accumulated on relatively new bullets such as the 40 Smith & Wesson. Marshall’s newest study takes these events into consideration.

32 ACP - Most of the smaller caliber firearms such as this caliber and the .380 ACP are carried as "back-up" guns by law enforcement thus the increase in data from actual police shootings. The CorBon 62 gr. JHP round was involved in 17 shootings with 11 one shot stops which achieved a 65% rating followed closely by the Winchester 60 grain Silvertip which was fired 162 times and caused 104 stops for a 64% rating. The Federal 65 grain Hydra-Shok and the CCI 60 grain Gold Dot achieved one shot stops 63% and 60% of the time.

380 ACP - The top rounds in this category were the Federal 90 grain Hydra-Shok and the CorBon 90 grain JHP+P which both rated a 70% one shot stop rating. While Federal 90 grain FMJ ammo was used in a whopping 245 shootings, it only achieved 55% one shot stops.

38 Special - With the introduction of semi-auto pistols, this caliber was relegated to secondary status. This data is from 2 and 3 inch revolvers which limit muzzle velocity & therefore results are less than other comparable calibers. Both the Winchester and Federal 158 grain LHP+P offerings were involved in 158 shootings with the Winchester round making 121 single shot stops for a 68% rating and the Federal loading making 120 one shot stops for a 67% rating. Most all of the 16 loadings examined fell in the 60 percent range with the Federal 125 grain Nyclad LHP+P round earning a 61% rating. It’s clear than the long-used 158 grain lead hollowpoint pushed to +P pressures is the best round for this caliber.

357 Magnum - Once the king of law enforcement handguns, this caliber has also been replaced by large capacity auto-pistols. The data collected for this caliber came from 2 and 3 inch revolvers, not the longer barreled type. The top round was the Remington 124 grain JHP followed by the same loading by Federal. Both loads achieved a 91% one hit stop rating. Most other loads ranked in the 80% area with the Federal 158 grain Hydra-Shok achieving a 78% rating.

357 SIG - This is the most current law enforcement cartridge and therefore, shooting data is limited. The top rated cartridges were the Remington and Federal 125 grain JHPs. Both were rated at 91% one shot stops. Of the 9 loads evaluated, the poorest was the Federal 158 grain Hydra-Shok which was involved in 41 shootings with 32 one shot stops for a 78% rating.

9mm - This was the first semiauto pistol to be used extensively by police agencies and replaced the 38 Special and 357 Magnum round. Early loadings of the 147 grain round caused major stopping problems however current 147 grain designs are vastly superior. Clearly the best 9mm loads are those driven to +P+ pressures. Of the 20 loadings evaluated, the top load was the Federal 115 grain JHP +P+ involved in 209 shootings with 190 one shot stops for a 91% rating. The Winchester 115 grain JHP +P+ and 127 grain Ranger SXT +P+ both had 90% one shot stops. All five loads driven to +P+ pressures ranked in the top 5 followed by all bullets loaded to +P pressures. Rounds manufactured to standard pressure ratings comprised the bottom 12 loadings in the study.

40 S&W - This caliber has become extremely popular with law enforcement agencies due to the perceived deficiencies of the 9mm round. All manufacturers have at least 2 loadings of this caliber and it has served very well. The Remington 165 grain Golden Saber was used in 311 shootings and made 292 one shot stops for a 94% rating followed closely by the CCI 165 and 155 grain loadings and the Federal 155 grain Hydra-Shok bullet. These 3 loads made 93% one shot stops. Other manufacturers loads in the 90% range were the Federal 155 grain JHP and the CorBon 135 and 150 grain JHP bullets. Thirteen other loadings were evaluated with the poorest being the Winchester 180 grain FMJ that was involved in 134 encounters and made 95 (71%) one shot stops.

45 ACP - This caliber has been around for almost 100 years and is still the top rated round. More police agencies are using this round due to its proven stopping ability. The large diameter, heavy bullet is the basis for the "momentum" theory of stopping power however actual results in shootings show a mix of "light and fast" and "slow and heavy" rounds. The Remington 185 grain Golden Saber was involved in 148 shootings and caused 142 one shot stops for a 96% rating followed closely by the Federal 230 grain Hydra-Shok which caused 200 one shot stops in 211 shootings for a 95% rating. Eight of the 16 loadings examined rated above 90% one shot stops while 5 others rated in the 80s. The poorest stoppers were the Remington, Federal and Winchester 230 grain FMJ rounds which achieved 62% one shot stops.

It’s difficult to say that one type of bullet is best for all calibers and, in fact, these study results show that the best results come from a mix of heavy to light bullets which defy most theories. It is clear however that some loadings are much better than others and the decision is ours with respect to which we choose.

I for got i had this one saved and i was wrong on the .45 to .40 studies. but thats ok.

[speedytriple]

OK? so a 9mm with hp had a 90% rating and a .45acp had a 95% rating. Don't most test like this take into account a margin of error? The 5% is not that big of a difference. So saying that a 9mm is the bottom of the food chain for a personal defense round is kind BS. If it caused 90% one shot stopping power I would say that is acceptable taken the margin of error in most case studies. What round do you use to compete with turboglock? 9mm or .45?

[chevysoldier]

OK? so a 9mm with hp had a 90% rating and a .45acp had a 95% rating. Don't most test like this take into account a margin of error? The 5% is not that big of a difference. So saying that a 9mm is the bottom of the food chain for a personal defense round is kind BS. If it caused 90% one shot stopping power I would say that is acceptable taken the margin of error in most case studies. What round do you use to compete with turboglock? 9mm or .45?

The 9mm 90% was also +P+. I don't know about other guns but my M&P highly recommends against using +P.

[turboglock]

OK? so a 9mm with hp had a 90% rating and a .45acp had a 95% rating. Don't most test like this take into account a margin of error? The 5% is not that big of a difference. So saying that a 9mm is the bottom of the food chain for a personal defense round is kind BS. If it caused 90% one shot stopping power I would say that is acceptable taken the margin of error in most case studies. What round do you use to compete with turboglock? 9mm or .45?

no this is not most test lol. they are % based on recorded shooting. there is no give or take 5% i mean if its that couldnt someone argue that you could take away 5% also from the 9mm.

[speedytriple]

Or 5% from the .45? So what do you compete with? 9mm or .45?

[turboglock]

Or 5% from the .45? So what do you compete with? 9mm or .45?

it just depends on the class im shooting in. in open its a 9mm because every extra round counts. the less reloads the better. no I use a 40 in limited 10 and i 9 again in production lol. See I do all my own reloading to. you only have to shoot a miner power factor in production and major power factor in the other two.

[speedytriple]

But why not shoot the superior power of the .45acp? When did capicity come into play I thought it was all about take down power on the first shot. LOL!

[turboglock]

But why not shoot the superior power of the .45acp? When did capicity come into play I thought it was all about take down power on the first shot. LOL!

not in competition. you asked what i shoot in competition. when your shooting in what i do for sport and to go fast were every sec counts its about speed and accuracy. so round count and recoil are both big factors. now i wouldnt use any of my competition guns for ccw.

[turboglock]

for ccw i would carry a .357 revolver thats just me. or a .44 mag revolver.

[speedytriple]

So the 2 inch charter arms .44mag my buddy is selling Is what the OP should buy for his ccw? Sorry I will stick to my 9mm you can shoot what you feel is good for you. I am not a big wheel gun guy.

[chevysoldier]

I'm gonna carry a P-22 and a Desert Eagle as my BUG.

[C-bus]

Carry what's comfortable. Something is better than nothing. I have .45s, 9mms, .380s, .38 specials, and a few .22s. Ideally, I'd like to carry my Glock 26, but it's still bulky. I find myself carrying the little S&W 642 .38 Special most often because its comfortable. And so I carry. Don't get caught up in the .45 vs .380 vs 9mm debate. Yes, a .45 stops a person better, but not one sitting in your safe at home.

Edited March 31, 2010 by C-bus

[KL9 F4i]

so I picked up a XD9 i didnt really like how anything else felt in my hand and it doesnt feel bad iwb so i went ahead and bought it and am thus far satisfied. I know a few ppl with XD's and I have heard nothing but good things so thats what i got...Part of me wishes I would have went .40 but i have a bunch of 9 ammo at home so i stuck to 9's plus the xd had a bunch of nice features

[Likwid]

so I picked up a XD9 i didnt really like how anything else felt in my hand and it doesnt feel bad iwb so i went ahead and bought it and am thus far satisfied. I know a few ppl with XD's and I have heard nothing but good things so thats what i got...Part of me wishes I would have went .40 but i have a bunch of 9 ammo at home so i stuck to 9's plus the xd had a bunch of nice features

remind me next time you're going to be in my neck of the woods, I'll give you an XD sticker

Another satisfied XD owner

[Bad324]

remind me next time you're going to be in my neck of the woods, I'll give you an XD sticker

Another satisfied XD owner

if for any crazy reason you decide to sell your XD, I better be the first to know

[Likwid]

if for any crazy reason you decide to sell your XD, I better be the first to know

That's gonna be a while, but Vance's has an outstanding deal available now, XDSC 9 or 40 for 399.... damn good price!

http://www.vanceoutdoors.com/flyer/flyer.pdf

[Sniper_308]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR-uRVn4irQ

I love my Ruger LCP .380