vw151 Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 (edited) A few weeks ago I had a brake pad failure at Barber. I just wanted to share it with the rest of you so you can take the necessary precautions. What you are seeing is a brake pad failure where it seems the friction material separated from the back plate all at once causing a gap in the brakes which caused a sudden loss of brake pressure. The brake pressure came back as I got into the pits because the back plate made contact with the rotor. Luckily I didn't damage the rotor because it happened right before pit entrance. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB-GJlRCA34 Edited March 26, 2010 by vw151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4DAIVI PAI2K5 Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 did the pad pull off the back plate?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vw151 Posted March 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 what you see is what I saw when I took the brakes apart. No friction material at all on the back plate. It seemed to have completely separated. supposedly this is from a bad batch. Just thought I'd let people know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 did you send this to whoever you bought the brakes from and carbone lorraine?i wonder if i should be concerned about the sbk5 i put on my bike? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSVDon Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 Oh my damn! That's an asshole pucker 5 moment right there. Good video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vw151 Posted March 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 did you send this to whoever you bought the brakes from and carbone lorraine?i wonder if i should be concerned about the sbk5 i put on my bike?I haven't yet. I have been told Mathias at spiegler, who is the US distributor needs to see them. I'll get them to him. I've just been really busy since I got back from Barber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 Didn't this very same thing happen to another member last year? The friction material hit another rider in the chest if i remember correctly.from what I recall they were NOT vesrah's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shittygsxr Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 Didn't this very same thing happen to another member last year? The friction material hit another rider in the chest if i remember correctly.from what I recall they were NOT vesrah'sthis happened to lizard but he didn't mention brand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 this happened to lizard but he didn't mention brandThat's right... I remember now, but he did make it a point to say that they were not vesrah's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 this happened to lizard but he didn't mention brandYup, they were the same pads. I talked with Mathias - LIKE I HAVE TOLD VW TO DO BEFORE HE KEEPS POSTING - found out what the deal was and decided to try the newest compounds that they currently run. Tried them, maintain the calipers and pads the way one should and guess what I am running this year? Guess which pads I trusted to race on at the GNC event at Mid-Ohio last year?Yup...My fear is that VW is putting fear into people's heads. Sure, they had a few sets do this, but truth be told, the pads he shows should have been changed out. See the wear at the edges? They are timed out. Like a motor does, the parts will time out over long periods of use. If they were changed out when they should have been, no issues would have probably occured...The thing is that the failuers I know of and when this occured with me, it was in 2008. I am willing to bet the born on date of the pads he has falls into the same time frame. I also am willing to bet he has several hours on them...When people ask me about pads, I tell them Vesrah is the best. I would run Vesrahs and my good friend is the owner of Vesrah, but getting pads from him is virtually impossible with his schedule. I don't buy things like this from catalogs where the inventory can be years old.The name of the pads and the compound name have not changed. So, the SKUs are the same. However, like anything, changes occur along the line and things can get better.When people talk to me about C/L pads, I tell them to call Speigler direct. One, Mathias will get you the best he can. Two, he will educate anyone that asks questions. Three, he's going to have the newest and freshest batches vs. the big book guys do...If you go to a place like Iron Pony, make them order from Speigler. If you want, call Mathias, tell him Brian sent you and get them.C/Ls are progressive and do not have the initial bite I prefer, but are DAMN good pads. I trust them enough to use them on my 1000 and will do so on my other bikes when time comes. BUT, you need to watch for the effects of worn pads. The edges you see above are examples of pads that should have been changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crf69 Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 oem,brembo,ferrodo for me...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garysol1 Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 , they had a few sets do this, but truth be told, the pads he shows should have been changed out. See the wear at the edges? They are timed out. Like a motor does, the parts will time out over long periods of use. If they were changed out when they should have been, no issues would have probably occured... I am not a racer but have hung out with quite a few and have spent many hours at a race track but I do not have the experience of many of you here on the board. Ill give my .02 anyway.....Brake pad unbonding is unacceptable. I don't care how old they are and I don't care how thin they are. If the pads had lost there feel or there stopping power and the reason given was that they were old I would be fine with that but not unbonding. These are life and death items we are talking about here. If I am running WOT down a back straight the last thing I want on my mind is if my brake pads will stay together or did I happen to buy a set from a bad batch.........There are enough other brands out there....... I don't see the need to use a questionable pad at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vw151 Posted March 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 Yup, they were the same pads. I talked with Mathias - LIKE I HAVE TOLD VW TO DO BEFORE HE KEEPS POSTING - found out what the deal was and decided to try the newest compounds that they currently run. Tried them, maintain the calipers and pads the way one should and guess what I am running this year? Guess which pads I trusted to race on at the GNC event at Mid-Ohio last year?Yup...My fear is that VW is putting fear into people's heads. Sure, they had a few sets do this, but truth be told, the pads he shows should have been changed out. See the wear at the edges? They are timed out. Like a motor does, the parts will time out over long periods of use. If they were changed out when they should have been, no issues would have probably occured...The thing is that the failuers I know of and when this occured with me, it was in 2008. I am willing to bet the born on date of the pads he has falls into the same time frame. I also am willing to bet he has several hours on them...When people ask me about pads, I tell them Vesrah is the best. I would run Vesrahs and my good friend is the owner of Vesrah, but getting pads from him is virtually impossible with his schedule. I don't buy things like this from catalogs where the inventory can be years old.The name of the pads and the compound name have not changed. So, the SKUs are the same. However, like anything, changes occur along the line and things can get better.When people talk to me about C/L pads, I tell them to call Speigler direct. One, Mathias will get you the best he can. Two, he will educate anyone that asks questions. Three, he's going to have the newest and freshest batches vs. the big book guys do...If you go to a place like Iron Pony, make them order from Speigler. If you want, call Mathias, tell him Brian sent you and get them.C/Ls are progressive and do not have the initial bite I prefer, but are DAMN good pads. I trust them enough to use them on my 1000 and will do so on my other bikes when time comes. BUT, you need to watch for the effects of worn pads. The edges you see above are examples of pads that should have been changed.Brian,I'm not putting fear into people's heads. A brake pad delaminating is scary all by itself. If the pad was worn out then that is fine. I'll take your advice and look for this in the future. As I've stated I'm relatively green. I am also hearing that this is a result of a bad batch and that this happened to you and others. Which is it. I'm curious about other people's experience. Has anyone else had this happen, with or with out Carbone Lorraine pads. I tend to agree with the people that are saying that this is unacceptable but am also very interested in learning how to do everything I can to prevent this. Frankly the whole thing scared the shit out of me. As I've said on the other forums. I'll Call Mathias but I don't see the harm in sharing this with everyone I know. It's dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 Thats scary shit right there. That type of failure is something that I would want to be warned about if I were running the same brand of pads. Good looking out. Interesting camera angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vw151 Posted March 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 Thats scary shit right there. That type of failure is something that I would want to be warned about if I were running the same brand of pads. Good looking out. Interesting camera angle.It was fate that I ran that camera angle that session. I had been trying out new angels and though a shot that included the brake lever would be cool. In retrospect I may have adjusted it a little differently but oh well. Funny thing was, point the camera at the brake lever and the brakes fail. Go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 I gotta say... if this happened to me, I'd probably switch brands... worn or not if I can't trust my brakes or my tires, I can't trust my bike... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSVDon Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 (edited) Wow.. if those pads are "worn out" then I must not have any understanding of racing brake pads. Looks like a case of "CYA"' date=' if you ask me... but you didn't. Still, I submit my arrogant reply for you to scoff at and tear to shredz.[/quote']Agreed. I have raced and do race my personal vehicles here and there and my brakes take a pounding. I have NEVER seen a pad with that much material left be considered bad. If you overheated the material and cooked the pad that's one thing, but if you aren't losing braking and didn't overcool it, there's no reason the material should leave the backing plate. That's poor manufacturing, brake pads should last until you almost grind to the backing plate. That's pretty much the standard. A pad delaminating like that IS a big deal.Also, Brian, you say you called Mathias and he offered up a different compound pad to try and now you use them? What happened to the compound that failed on you? Just dismissed it? Or did I miss something in that read. Edited March 26, 2010 by RSVDon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vw151 Posted March 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 Wow.. if those pads are "worn out" then I must not have any understanding of racing brake pads. Looks like a case of "CYA"' date=' if you ask me... but you didn't. Still, I submit my arrogant reply for you to scoff at and tear to shredz.[/quote']LoLz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yotaman88210 Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 I dont even know how to ride a bike, but I would say it looks like there is lots of life left in the pad as well... and if I knew how to ride a bike, I would ride on those Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1crusher Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 Wow.. if those pads are "worn out" then I must not have any understanding of racing brake pads. Looks like a case of "CYA"' date=' if you ask me... but you didn't. Still, I submit my arrogant reply for you to scoff at and tear to shredz.[/quote']I <3 Paully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost1888 Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 did you send this to whoever you bought the brakes from and carbone lorraine?i wonder if i should be concerned about the sbk5 i put on my bike?+1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_racing_guy Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 Wow.. if those pads are "worn out" then I must not have any understanding of racing brake pads. Looks like a case of "CYA"' date=' if you ask me... but you didn't. Still, I submit my arrogant reply for you to scoff at and tear to shredz.[/quote']+1Agreed. I have raced and do race my personal vehicles here and there and my brakes take a pounding. I have NEVER seen a pad with that much material left be considered bad. If you overheated the material and cooked the pad that's one thing, but if you aren't losing braking and didn't overcool it, there's no reason the material should leave the backing plate. That's poor manufacturing, brake pads should last until you almost grind to the backing plate. That's pretty much the standard. A pad delaminating like that IS a big deal.^That is another correct statement. To even suggest that those pads were worn or "timed out" is a total 100% Bull Shit comment. Not so? Then why didn't they catch it at tech or ask "are your brake pads more than 2 years old?" I applaud VW for warning the rest of us that Carbone Lorraine makes shit pads and you should report it to the consumer products safety commission before someone is seriously injured or killed. Can you imagine the consequences if that would have happened at some place like road america at the end of the long straight following another rider closely?? Anyone group riding would be wise to ask who is running Carbone Lorraine brake pads then make sure they are not following you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APCh8r Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 Anyone group riding would be wise to ask who is running Carbone Lorraine brake pads then make sure they are not following you.I have been on CL for the last two seasons and have never had a problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vw151 Posted March 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 +1^That is another correct statement. To even suggest that those pads were worn or "timed out" is a total 100% Bull Shit comment. Not so? Then why didn't they catch it at tech or ask "are your brake pads more than 2 years old?" I applaud VW for warning the rest of us that Carbone Lorraine makes shit pads and you should report it to the consumer products safety commission before someone is seriously injured or killed. Can you imagine the consequences if that would have happened at some place like road america at the end of the long straight following another rider closely?? Anyone group riding would be wise to ask who is running Carbone Lorraine brake pads then make sure they are not following you.Thanks for the applause, obviously I am feeling the same way. This is dangerous. BTW, I was just counting it up. I bought those pads last summer.I ran 1 day at Putnam in July I group1 day at Barber in October I group1.5 days at CMP in November (it rained Sunday so I went home early) A Group2 days at barber in March A groupday 2 at Barber in the 3rd session is when the pad failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_racing_guy Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 I'd rep you for the Radiohead tune in the video as well but you know how that went... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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