please join me

[RFM]

There's a special place in Hell for babies. Sort of like a Cry Room in Church, only in Hell.

[Dubguy85]

The point I was trying to make is that, while you can believe whatever you want (free will and all) the Bible makes claims about it's authority and specific claims about who is God, and specifically says that Jesus Christ is the only way to eternal life. Just because you want to believe in the "all paths lead to God" idea, doesn't mean the Bible will back up your claim. My comment was about the idea you presented not having any basis in reality concerning what the Bible has to say. If you are going to use it as a reference to base your idea on, then you have to deal with this fact.

Consider these verses:

Acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."

Seems pretty exclusive... doesn't leave any room for any other path.

If we're going to talk about this, lets talk about it logically, based on facts rather than your opinion or my opinion.

It would be really nice to believe that all paths lead to God. It leaves room for everyone to take their own road without all this debating about what is true and what isn't. But just like there are physical absolutes (every motorcyclist knows about them), there are spiritual absolutes. There is absolute truth. Saying all paths lead to God is like saying all roads lead to Detroit. In reality, there is a specific way to get there. It's just plain common sense. So, either you believe in Jesus Christ as being the cure for the human flawed condition, and our separation from God as the result of that condition, as the Bible claims he is (and as He claimed he is) or you don't. If you hold him up as just a prophet and not being God come in the flesh as He claimed to be, you are saying that he is either a liar, or a lunatic, because what kind of man makes a claim to be the only way, and equal to God, unless he is either crazy, a criminal, or... He is who He said He is. His claim to be God and the only way to eternal life force us to make a decision about his character. If you believe Him, you must exclude all other paths. If you don't, you must reject Him outright, because there is no middle ground.

100% Truth. / Thread

[Vulcan_Rider]

hey, do retarded people go to hell because they can't understand the concept of "God" that you espouse?

cause that would just not be kewl

The technical (Catholic) answer is no, they all go to heaven because they do not understand the difference between right and wrong therefore they can not sin.

[RFM]

The technical (Catholic) answer is no, they all go to heaven because they do not understand the difference between right and wrong therefore they can not sin.

Hey..... I changed my daughter's baby diapers. She filled those up with liquid soupy sin often. Yes, there is baby sin, only there are wipes for it.

[Dubguy85]

The technical (Catholic) answer is no, they all go to heaven because they do not understand the difference between right and wrong therefore they can not sin.

I'm not sure that is exactly correct. I don't think its they can not sin, because we are all born sinners. I think its they don't understand God and Christ yet.

[Warlock]

well, you must not be going to heaven then. don't look at me like that, i don't make the rules. a man who read the bible (one which has probably been revised, translated, revised again, added to, subtracted from, shit upon, etc) makes the rules.

Thanks! I'll take my chances.

[Casper]

The technical (Catholic) answer is no, they all go to heaven because they do not understand the difference between right and wrong therefore they can not sin.

That's not what the Bible says. It very clearly says that we are all born sinners, and if you don't accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior and get baptized, you aren't going to heaven.

For the record, I don't believe babies and family pets go to hell. I'm just giving an example as to why taking the Bible word for word isn't my cup of tea.

[Vulcan_Rider]

I'm not sure that is exactly correct. I don't think its they can not sin, because we are all born sinners. I think its they don't understand God and Christ yet.

You are born with original sin, that is "washed away" during baptism. From that point on you are a sin free being until you understand the concept of right and wrong. If you do not know the difference between right and wrong then you can not sin. Sinning is doing wrong when you know it is wrong. Same concept applies to the mentally handicapped, children and some times the elderly when their minds deteriorate. This is all according to the Catholic faith. I have taught this religion for 12 years now and I am fairly ignorant to the details of other religions, so if this is wrong according to your religion so be it, all I can give is the info I know.

[Fonzie]

See, we differ there. My opinion is that nobody wins over another. Those who believe in a religion are all praying to the same God or higher being. Jews, Muslims, Christians, Catholics, Native Americans, Buddhists, etc. Fundamentally the beliefs are the same. Live a good life, practice charity, and pray/worship. All paths to God are correct. No religion is wrong. If you take your holy text word for word, you're missing the larger picture. The Bible isn't a guide to life. It's a collection of stories passed down generation after generation to inspire people to do good.

You sound like Oprah here

The technical (Catholic) answer is no, they all go to heaven because they do not understand the difference between right and wrong therefore they can not sin.

Baby's are born into Original Sin... This is why they are baptized soon after birth, to expunge that. Confirmation is when they are older (generally 13'ish/8th grade) & they reaffirm their baptism for theirselves, now that they are of the age of reason

Edited September 23, 2010 by Fonzie

[Dubguy85]

You are born with original sin, that is "washed away" during baptism. From that point on you are a sin free being until you understand the concept of right and wrong. If you do not know the difference between right and wrong then you can not sin. Sinning is doing wrong when you know it is wrong. Same concept applies to the mentally handicapped, children and some times the elderly when their minds deteriorate. This is all according to the Catholic faith. I have taught this religion for 12 years now and I am fairly ignorant to the details of other religions, so if this is wrong according to your religion so be it, all I can give is the info I know.

I'm non denom christian so very close to Catholic, but not quite the same. I've grown up in the church and went to a 4 year Christian college studying Old Testament, New Testament, Christian Theology, etc. I'm not all knowing by any means, but consider myself fairly knowledgeable.

Not all babies are baptized at birth, including myself.. Baptising doesn't "save" you.

It doesn't save you before or after accepting Christ.

[Dubguy85]

You are born with original sin, that is "washed away" during baptism. From that point on you are a sin free being until you understand the concept of right and wrong. If you do not know the difference between right and wrong then you can not sin. Sinning is doing wrong when you know it is wrong. Same concept applies to the mentally handicapped, children and some times the elderly when their minds deteriorate. This is all according to the Catholic faith. I have taught this religion for 12 years now and I am fairly ignorant to the details of other religions, so if this is wrong according to your religion so be it, all I can give is the info I know.

You sound like Oprah here

Baby's are born into Original Sin... This is why they are baptized soon after birth, to expunge that. Confirmation is when they are older (generally 13'ish/8th grade) & they reaffirm their baptism for theirselves, now that they are of the age of reason

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/get_wet.shtml

I could summarize but this sums it up

[Casper]

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/get_wet.shtml

I could summarize but this sums it up

Read the Bible. What we've said is fact. If I baby is born, then dies before being baptized, according to the Bible they go to hell. Now, several religions have revised this. That's exactly the point of this discussion. Even organized religions like the Catholic church don't accept everything in the Bible word for word.

[jporter12]

I'm non denom christian so very close to Catholic, but not quite the same. I've grown up in the church and went to a 4 year Christian college studying Old Testament, New Testament, Christian Theology, etc. I'm not all knowing by any means, but consider myself fairly knowledgeable.

Not all babies are baptized at birth, including myself.. Baptising doesn't "save" you.

It doesn't save you before or after accepting Christ.

To roughly quote the Pastor at our church: "Baptism does not save you. it's merely an outward showing of what's happening on the inside."

I don't think there's anywhere in the Bible that says you must be baptized to get into heaven, just that no one come's to the father except through Christ. I believe this is different than the Catholic teachings.

[fusion]

Peter and Paul were some serious cult leaders they were. The best ever in history.

[Dubguy85]

Read the Bible. What we've said is fact. If I baby is born, then dies before being baptized, according to the Bible they go to hell. Now, several religions have revised this. That's exactly the point of this discussion. Even organized religions like the Catholic church don't accept everything in the Bible word for word.

Please show me where the Bible says that.

[jbot]

Please show me where the Bible says that.

i didn't read it all cause i don't give a poo, but it looks like this discussion has been had before.

http://www.gospel.com/blog/index.php/2009/10/22/is-batism-necessary-for-salvation/

[InyaAzz]

When do the beatings and torturing start? I'm late for my 4 o'clock.

[RVTPilot]

Do the beatings and tortures require an appointment, or are they on a first-come, first-served basis?

[jporter12]

Do the beatings and tortures require an appointment, or are they on a first-come, first-served basis?

Hopefully not, you're waiting on a sammich, so you WILL be late, I'm sure!

[RVTPilot]

You go that right! I's hungry, and now waiting on a beating, some torture, AND a sammich! Gawdamn bichez.

[omaralaoui]

lol...

[Cheech]

You are born with original sin, that is "washed away" during baptism. From that point on you are a sin free being until you understand the concept of right and wrong. If you do not know the difference between right and wrong then you can not sin. Sinning is doing wrong when you know it is wrong. Same concept applies to the mentally handicapped, children and some times the elderly when their minds deteriorate. This is all according to the Catholic faith. I have taught this religion for 12 years now and I am fairly ignorant to the details of other religions, so if this is wrong according to your religion so be it, all I can give is the info I know.

And this doesn't strike anyone as being, well, arbitrary?

[Vulcan_Rider]

I'm non denom christian so very close to Catholic, but not quite the same. I've grown up in the church and went to a 4 year Christian college studying Old Testament, New Testament, Christian Theology, etc. I'm not all knowing by any means, but consider myself fairly knowledgeable.

Not all babies are baptized at birth, including myself.. Baptising doesn't "save" you.

It doesn't save you before or after accepting Christ.

Not questioning anyones knowledge, just explaining where my knowledge comes from, as I am sure you are doing.

I understand not all babies are baptized right away and never claimed that baptism saves you, it simply washes away original sin and makes you an "official" member of the faith.(Well the Catholic faith anyways)

[jbot]

any ol' hell bound retard like myself can come up with a technicality that is difficult to clearly explain away, for which god must be impervious to. cause of the whole omni-everything thing.

in the end, it always comes back to the "it takes faith" argument... and there is nothing wrong with that in a faith based belief system. But those who would "preach" those beliefs should not try to play in the same playground (and therefore, the same rules) as logic or scientific method based theories.

and that's why i want to be a muslim pokemon master

[fusion]

I choose you Jbotchu!!!