Steve Butters Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 Ok a little history....A screw got sucked into the carb somehow, and the piston mashed it into the head. Pulled the motor apart and the screw did not contact a valve, and the piston was damaged on the flat area not on the sides. Now it's put back together just how it was, with the screw removed. Yes, I know...cheap. Besides the point. I figure it will get a hot spot and eventually need a piston, but when it went back together, it ran like a champ - burns a little oil, but not a lot I dont think.Well, I sold the quad to a friend who is the one that put it back together and has been riding it. It got low on oil and is now making a rattling sound. I'm not sure if the oil being low caused it, or if it started happening a little while after or what. All i know is that it got low on oil at one point, and now its rattling also.I'm buying the quad back from him this weekend - the deal is just too good to pass up.He has been riding it occasionally, and its been ridden hard. The rattling is semi quiet at idle but gets louder and consistent when it gets hot. The rattling sounds like its coming from the right side of the motor, near the bottom.Any ideas? My plan is to ride it until it doesnt run anymore, and then fix it. Unless perhaps its something easy? I don't want to buy it and tear right into it, because im too broke to fuck with it right now, but I do want to ride it a little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted October 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 (edited) took it to pony today and fired it up...justin and hillbilly said it sounds like the valves are loose....guess ill start there...anybody wanna help? i have no idea what im doing Edited October 14, 2010 by Steve Butters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted October 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 i tried adjusting the valves, but i had no idea what i was doing....sometimes they felt right on, other times way too loose, and sometimes too tight....all within the same adjustment...ive never done this shit before, and now im just frustrated and quit for the night....heres how it soundsalso, the sound near the end....sounds like the belt needs replaced right? i was told it did, and thats the only thing i can think of that sound beinghttp://s70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/SaleenSS90/?action=view¤t=CIMG1751.mp4gonna have to find somebody to take it to to have the valves adjusted - shouldnt cost much since its already torn downand yes...i noticed the fuel drip, after i made the video - just needed to tighten a hose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted October 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 (edited) ok just readjusted them this morning...i did it wrong last time and they were way off...i think theyre closer to ok now, but hell i dont know - sounds like it did before i started lol...the tap appears to go away when i hit the throttle, i was told that would point towards the timing chain - i check with the screwdriver again, and the noise is definitely still in the top end...is the timing chain the next place i should start looking, or should i still have the valves double checked by someone who knows what theyre doing? Edited October 16, 2010 by Steve Butters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 I'm guessing rod bearings. I hope not, but thats my guess. See if you can find a good used motor cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted October 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 why would i hear rod bearings tapping in the head but not in the bottom end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 If they are bad, it could cause enough slop that the piston slaps the valves.You did say this: The rattling is semi quiet at idle but gets louder and consistent when it gets hot. The rattling sounds like its coming from the right side of the motor, near the bottom.If you are hearing noise in the bottom end and it has been run hard on low oil, I'm guessing rod bearings.Disclaimer: I am not a doctor, lawyer, cop or mechanic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted October 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 disregard that statement....that was before i used the screwdriver to listen inside, i do not hear it on the bottom of the motorand if the piston was slapping the valves, they would be fubar and it wouldnt run like it does...i had it up and down the street today and it still runs well enough to break the tires loose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted October 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 im not saying it cant be rod bearings....but it just doesnt sound like it to me....it doesnt make the right noise, its not coming from the right part of the motor, and if the piston was hitting valves then it would not be running like it does...i just dont wanna jump into $1000 engine if its a head problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 Then timing chain? Maybe someone more knowledgeable that me will chime in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted October 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 idk...i think thats the next thing ill check....either way its gonna suck lol...if it needs a timing chain, i have to split the case....probably put a new piston and stuff in it while im in there, along with new bearings and stuff....and even if it is a rod bearing, ill probably replace the timing chain and tensioner, rod bearings, and put a piston kit in itmaybe ill get lucky and itll just need a tensioner, or perhaps a rocker arm is bad or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted October 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 (edited) **double Edited October 17, 2010 by Steve Butters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted October 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 found a ton of info here...im gonna start on the tensioner tomorrow and go from there!...this guy appears to know everything there is to know about these engineshttp://www.grizzlycentral.com/forum/grizzly-engine-transmission/14791-help-bad-ticking-noise.htmlif it not a faulty tensioner - looks like ill be splitting the case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 No offense, but this is why trained techs need to work on stuff. You going in with no knowledge and doing guess work could lead to some serious damage and result in destroying something that could have easily been fixed.All this work you are doing, my suggestion would be to get the top end refreshed and replace that piston while at it. If you are doing a new cam chain, do the tensioner and guides, also. Remember, if the chain is worn, everything it touches is probably worn, also. It's like a worn chain being replaced and you keep the old sprockets. You are only shortening the life of the new chain by using the old stuff it touches.The cam sprockets should be fine, but check them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 Oh, and why do you need to split the case for a new chain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted October 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 (edited) No offense, but this is why trained techs need to work on stuff. You going in with no knowledge and doing guess work could lead to some serious damage and result in destroying something that could have easily been fixed.All this work you are doing, my suggestion would be to get the top end refreshed and replace that piston while at it. If you are doing a new cam chain, do the tensioner and guides, also. Remember, if the chain is worn, everything it touches is probably worn, also. It's like a worn chain being replaced and you keep the old sprockets. You are only shortening the life of the new chain by using the old stuff it touches.The cam sprockets should be fine, but check them...Oh, and why do you need to split the case for a new chain?gotta learn somewhere man...if i make a mistake and mess something up, then i will know better for next time...im not working on a $15,000 litre bike or anything, just a tired old $600 4wheeler...all ive done so far is adjust the valves, and next im going to check tension on the timing chain....nobody knows how to do everything, without ever having done it...ive always enjoyed trying to do my own work - no matter what car/bike it was, then if i get defeated, i will reluctently take it somewhere lol.... but i actually enjoy working on stuff, so im giving it a shot....and if i succeed, ill save money and i will know how to do it next time tooalso...the way these motors are set up, the case needs split to replace the timing chain...just how they are, theres no master link in itand yes...if i end up putting a new chain, i will be replacing the sprockets, guides, and tensioner....i might even put new bearings and a piston in it while im in there, just to be safethis isnt the first time ive worked on thsi thing....ive had it torn down to the frame, and had the top end apart before.....im not a certified tech, but im not a mechanical retard either lol...with a manual and a little help online i can usually find my way around stuff Edited October 17, 2010 by Steve Butters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted October 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 (edited) alright..checked the timing chain tensioner, and it only had 2 little clicks left...i think it was just not adjusting, i pulled it out and extended it all the way and put it back in (wrong orientation for bolt holes on accident), pulled it out to flip it around and it was pushed back in a few clicks like i had hit it on something maybe...im not sure if that means the tensioner itself is faulty because the lock didnt hold tension, like the chain is pushing it back in, or if the chain is just so loose that its slapping regardless....when i put the tensioner back in extended all the way and fired it up, the noise was gone completely while cold...once it warmed up it started tapping.... put a screwdriver to the left side cam cover, right over the timing chain and its tapping like crazy....should i go ahead and replace the timing chain, or should i start with the tensioner? is there a way to check the auto adjusting tensioners? Edited October 17, 2010 by Steve Butters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidgetTodd Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 Change auto tensioners for manual ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted October 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 (edited) just checked tensioner again after letting it run.... and it is still maxed out, so the tensioner is good.....guess that means its time for a timing chain...im relieved its not a blown motor like i was told when i bought it, but sucks that its so much work to replace the timing chain on this....guess ive got a new winter project loloh and i found out i dont need to split the case, even though the manual lists it that way lol Edited October 17, 2010 by Steve Butters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 just checked tensioner again after letting it run.... and it is still maxed out, so the tensioner is good.....guess that means its time for a timing chain...im relieved its not a blown motor like i was told when i bought it, but sucks that its so much work to replace the timing chain on this....guess ive got a new winter project loloh and i found out i dont need to split the case, even though the manual lists it that way lolLike I said...The thing is I understand that you are only working on a bike that isn't much money, but if you've torn this thing down already, why are you asking for info on here? The manual (hopefully, you are using an OEM service manual vs. a Chilton, etc) easily will show you what the tolerances are for the chain and how to measure. Tolerances are all clearly listed for you to review.If the chain needs replaced as it has timed out, it is most likely a situation where the bottom end needs a refresh. Pull the motor and do it right.Just my $.02... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted October 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 (edited) it hasnt jumped time yet...and i was posting for trouble shooting advice mostly, to get opinions on what people thought may be causing the tapand yes its an OEM service manualnot sure why youre being such a jerk about it though? is this area not for "tech" help? if the answer was "take it to a professional" every single time, then this why do we have this section of the forum?quit busting my balls for trying to work on my own shit, its not like i poured water in it to try and "clean" it or anything, im just asking for advice Edited October 18, 2010 by Steve Butters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 Pour a can of this shit in the tank. It'll fix it right up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted October 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 (edited) shawn - will the nawz fix this?FML - i am having no luck getting this fucker out - the last bolt too >:[....3/8 socket fits right over these with a little persuasion from a hammer - thats how i got the other stuck one out...but i cant get a socket down over this...i give up for the night lol Edited October 18, 2010 by Steve Butters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted October 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 thanks IP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted October 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 (edited) what about when the extractor breaks off in the bolt? **editgot it! drilled it a bit more to be able to fit my t40 torx in it and hammered it in there and it came out! thanks everyone Edited October 18, 2010 by Steve Butters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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