Why buying a house might not be a good investment afterall......

[Casper]

http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/24/news/economy/housingstart_0124/index.htm?postversion=2008012410

[homewrecker]

So the average price of a house is $217,000 and the average income is what about $40,000. The housing market obviously needs to adjust to be more comparable to the median income. It is gonna suck and some of us will lose money because of it but it has to happen.

[Angrish]

NO the gov. will just bail all these losers that can't afford the house they so gotta have......Living over their means.We will pay for it some how.

[serpentracer]

all the houses in my area are going for CHEAP. and I mean cheap! some of them would have listed for well above $150k and are asking only around $75k. it's a buyers dream come true. my uncle just got a loan for a house with no money down and 5.5% interest. his payments with insurance and tax's is $525 a month. it's incredible right now for a buyer.

buying a house is never a bad investment. you have to have a place to live. Why give your money for rent. you are throwing it away.

[A to the K]

I've been looking to move to Seattle. The average income isn't much higher than any city in Ohio($45,000), but the average home price is like $450,000. And Seattle isn't seeing a decline in prices at all, yet.

Its pretty depressing because my house has been on the Market in Perrysburg for 7 months with very little activity. I all ready have it listed for less than I bought it for.

It looks like I am going to have to take a job back in Ohio for $3.50 less an hour just because I can't unload my house.

[Angrish]

all the houses in my area are going for CHEAP. and I mean cheap! some of them would have listed for well above $150k and are asking only around $75k. it's a buyers dream come true. my uncle just got a loan for a house with no money down and 5.5% interest. his payments with insurance and tax's is $525 a month. it's incredible right now for a buyer.

buying a house is never a bad investment. you have to have a place to live. Why give your money for rent. you are throwing it away.

Don't let todd43 see that!!

[Todd#43]

all the houses in my area are going for CHEAP. and I mean cheap! some of them would have listed for well above $150k and are asking only around $75k. it's a buyers dream come true. my uncle just got a loan for a house with no money down and 5.5% interest. his payments with insurance and tax's is $525 a month. it's incredible right now for a buyer.

buying a house is never a bad investment. you have to have a place to live. Why give your money for rent. you are throwing it away.

So, was it a good investement for the guy that's selling his $150,000 house for $75,000?

I thought the purpose of an investment was to make money???

[shittygsxr]

So, was it a good investement for the guy that's selling his $150,000 house for $75,000?

I thought the purpose of an investment was to make money???

at that point just walk away from the house and let the bank have it. There will be many class action lawsuits against banks as thier irresponsible lending artificially inflated the cost of housing and regular joe's have to foot the bill again.

[Dweezel]

at that point just walk away from the house and let the bank have it. There will be many class action lawsuits against banks as thier irresponsible lending artificially inflated the cost of housing and regular joe's have to foot the bill again.

Why is it the banks fault? It's the persons fault for spending beyond there means. If you make 35,000 you shouldn't be living in a 250k home. People need to take responsibility for there actions. THEY signed the papers, THEY knew what they were getting into. I don't feel bad for these people. they signed papers KNOWING they had a variable interest rate, then they act surprised when the interest rate goes up and they can't afford their payment anymore. WTF did you think was going to happen? interest rates were going to stay at 1% forever?

[shittygsxr]

Why is it the banks fault? It's the persons fault for spending beyond there means. If you make 35,000 you shouldn't be living in a 250k home. People need to take responsibility for there actions. THEY signed the papers, THEY knew what they were getting into. I don't feel bad for these people. they signed papers KNOWING they had a variable interest rate, then they act surprised when the interest rate goes up and they can't afford their payment anymore. WTF did you think was going to happen? interest rates were going to stay at 1% forever?

why is it my fault that the bank gave 10 assholes a loan that they couldnt afford that drove up the prices on my block? They are bankers they know about money, and believe it or not actually spend quit a bit of time in school learning about it. Wether you want to admit it or not "people" are not educated about money or investing. They dont know the difference that one percentage point will make in their loan payment, they dont know what an ammortization schedule is. That is why we have bankers, if everyone was smarter than them, bankers would not exist.

If you can answer this question with a well thought out response I will shut up.

When something happens to you medically, and you had previously just seen a doctor, why is it the doctors fauly?

When something happens to you financially, and you had perviously just seen a banker, why is it "your" own fault?

[r1crusher]

I'm with Shitty and Todd on this. The banks are not doing their due diligence to make a sound determination as the the financial stability of those people asking for loans on houses. I don't believe they are fully informing those people of the effect of certain types of loans. It seemed that a bank's only interest was to get people to sign papers. I could easily afford a home of my own but choose not to because of all the added expenses it carries.

[Dweezel]

why is it my fault that the bank gave 10 assholes a loan that they couldnt afford that drove up the prices on my block?

I don't understand, if you own your home, why would you complain if the value of it went up after you signed? I can see where you'd be up set now since the value is falling, especially if you plan selling soon (good luck with that if you are)

They are bankers they know about money, and believe it or not actually spend quit a bit of time in school learning about it.

I would hope so seeing as how they are about to spend their career moving money around

Wether you want to admit it or not "people" are not educated about money or investing. They dont know the difference that one percentage point will make in their loan payment, they dont know what an ammortization schedule is.

I know this, again how is this the banks fault that the consumer didn't do their research? Like it or not a bank is a business, they're out to make money, thats why they loan you money at 9%, but only give you .03% interest on your savings bond etc.. They are out to sell you variable rate loans, knowing full well that the prime is going to go up, and they will make more money off of you.

That is why we have bankers, if everyone was smarter than them, bankers would not exist.

Thats also why we have used car salesmen, do you believe everything they tell you? or do you do your own research when buying a car? A house is a much larger, much more complex, much more IMPORTANT purchase than a car, why wouldn't you do that much more research before purchasing it?

If you can answer this question with a well thought out response I will shut up.

You don't have to shut up, but I hope I met your standards

When something happens to you medically, and you had previously just seen a doctor, why is it the doctors fault?

No idea. I guess because people expect doctors to be perfect, that and their sue happy, and free money from a malpractice suite is appealing to the masses, especially since juries are rewarding ridiculously large amounts to people in frivolous lawsuits

When something happens to you financially, and you had perviously just seen a banker, why is it "your" own fault?

Because your an idiot and you should have done your homework before you signed the papers. It's obvious that these people don't know the definition of the word "Variable", they see that today, at the incredably low introductory rate of .5% yes, they can afford that $300,000 house on there $30,000 dollar a year combined income. but in two years when that rate climbs up to 7 or 8 or 9%, there fucked. and then they wonder why, and it's the big bad banks fault for loaning them the money in the first place. People today refuse to accept responsibility for their actions. It's allot easier to say it's someone else's fault, than to man up and say "I fucked up"

The ONLY way I would have done it is if i could have gotten a fixed rate at 2% (or whatever the hell it was I don't remember anymore) The only reason you should take a variable rate is if you plan on living in a house less than 5 years, any plans or even "maybes" to live in a house longer than 5 years you should get a fixed rate, even if the rate is a little higher, you can always refinance later for a lower rate, with a variable rate, if you refinance you're almost certain to get at least the rate you can't afford anymore, if not a higher rate.

[Dweezel]

I'm with Shitty and Todd on this. The banks are not doing their due diligence to make a sound determination as the the financial stability of those people asking for loans on houses.

Why not, guy has a stable job, been there for years, excellent credit, he deserves a loan. Banks can't look into the future and now exactly what the payment is going to go up to in 5 years, and know exactly what your salary is going to be at that time. They look at a past, and present experience, payments, and such. From there determine that "yes this person is responsible and makes payments on time, we're above the odds on getting our money back" or "No, we more than likely won't get our money back" Banks, Lendees, Psychics, or card readers CANNOT see into the future, despite what people may think.

I don't believe they are fully informing those people of the effect of certain types of loans.

It's not a teachers fault if you don't do your homework. It's not a car salesmans fault if you buy a Solstice when you need a minivan. Why is it a banks fault if you don't know what "Variable" means? Not to mention your to stupid to see that the feds cut rates as a TEMPORARY stimulant, fully expecting to raise them up to normal again in several years. again, no idea what "temporary" means

It seemed that a bank's only interest was to get people to sign papers.

Kind of like a salesman at a business is always trying to get you to buy the bigger more expensive product. It's a business. of course there going to try to get you to spend the most they can. The problem is/was that there was such a huge swing in rates, and such a vast, widespread foreclosure rate. Under normal circumstances, foreclosures, repos, work out to the lenders advantage. They get your money on the property for x amount of months, then take it back, and resell it. making there money back, plus your payments for X amount of time you owned it.

I could easily afford a home of my own but choose not to because of all the added expenses it carries.

Thats your call. I'd rather take the gamble and at least have the CHANCE of breaking even, or even taking a less substantial loss, instead of throwing 500 a month away, with absolutely NO chance of getting it back. Unless you've invested a stupid amount into a house that isn't worth anything, you'll always take less of a loss, or if you manage right, break even or even get ahead with ownership. With renting, your 100% Guaranteed to get back 0% of your rent you've paid. End of story. The only thing you may get back is your security deposit, which may be 1-2 months rent, depending.

[r1crusher]

A lending institution should not just push a piece of paper over to you and tell you to sign it thinking you already have all the answers. If I don't understand something I ask a question. Some people ASSUME THAT THE LENDERS ARE WORKING FOR THEM! This is not always the case. Banks/Lenders should engage the buyer and ask them questions, "Do you understand what this variable rate is?", "Do you know how this effects your payments over time?". If they did this then I'd bet a lot of people would not sign those variable/balloon papers (given an honest answer from the bank/lender).

True it's not a teachers fault you don't do your homework. But is it the students fault if THEY DIDN'T TEACH YOU ABOUT THE SUBJECT. Home buyers don't have "teachers" to help them, that's why they go to banks/lenders! I fully understand these cuts are temporary, and people buying homes today should be told the same thing by the lenders.

And the car references is a bit lame. If I walk onto a lot they don't instantly walk me to a Solstice (nice care though) and put me in it, they ask what I'm looking for. Again, the bank should engage the customer. Not just "Oh sure, we can give you a loan for that."

People rely on banks and lenders to provide them with the appropriate information regarding a loan. That's all I'm saying. It takes effort on both sides of the table to make an informed decision, but IMO I feel that the banks are not doing their part.

As far as renting I couldn't explain it any better than Todd did in the other thread http://www.ohio-riders.net/showthread.php?t=8741. You think you're getting something buy owning a home. Take you're yearly expenses for maintenance, insurance, etc. and you'll never truly make money on your home when you sell it. But I hope that it's something you enjoy because in the end that's all that really matters.

[shittygsxr]

R1 nice post and Dweezel I wouldnt think it was anyone elses fault if I defaulted on my mortgage.

What has happened is the equivalent of a gun dealer selling everyone missles because they wanted them. The masses act like children and they need to be treated that way

[Dweezel]

A lending institution should not just push a piece of paper over to you and tell you to sign it thinking you already have all the answers.

But you should already have them. You should know what your getting into before you get into it.

If I don't understand something I ask a question.

But allot of people don't because they don't want to look stupid

Some people ASSUME THAT THE LENDERS ARE WORKING FOR THEM! This is not always the case.

Very true

Banks/Lenders should engage the buyer and ask them questions, "Do you understand what this variable rate is?", "Do you know how this effects your payments over time?". If they did this then I'd bet a lot of people would not sign those variable/balloon papers (given an honest answer from the bank/lender).

To me this just comes back to not taking responsibility for yourself. You should know what all that is BEFORE you get into it.

True it's not a teachers fault you don't do your homework. But is it the students fault if THEY DIDN'T TEACH YOU ABOUT THE SUBJECT. Home buyers don't have "teachers" to help them, that's why they go to banks/lenders!

Ehhh... Maybe. I have to agree, yet disagree with you here. Yes that is a good place to go to learn about it. However, in the same point, allot of people don't ask anything until they've already drawn up paperwork. Very few people go into a bank/CU for the simple reason to educate themselves.

I fully understand these cuts are temporary, and people buying homes today should be told the same thing by the lenders.

And the car references is a bit lame. If I walk onto a lot they don't instantly walk me to a Solstice (nice care though) and put me in it, they ask what I'm looking for. Again, the bank should engage the customer. Not just "Oh sure, we can give you a loan for that."

If you see someone first, and explain to them what your needs are and what your looking to accomplish. Which goes back to doing your homework.

Now if I walked onto a lot, pointed to a Solstice and "I want that car", there going to draw up paperwork and get the ball rolling, there not going to start questioning me about why I'm buying the car, do I have kids, who will I be transporting in the car etc etc. No. They sell you the damn car.

People rely on banks and lenders to provide them with the appropriate information regarding a loan. That's all I'm saying. It takes effort on both sides of the table to make an informed decision, but IMO I feel that the banks are not doing their part.

This may be true, but if I never ask for help before going water skiing, how would you know that you'd need to teach me to swim first?

[Dweezel]

R1 nice post and Dweezel I wouldnt think it was anyone elses fault if I defaulted on my mortgage.

Neither would I, but millions out there don't see it that way. I didn't mean you personally Shitty, just as an in general reference, a generic "you". I'm sorry if it was thought I was aiming it directly at you or anyone on this board, I honestly wasn't

What has happened is the equivalent of a gun dealer selling everyone missles because they wanted them. The masses act like children and they need to be treated that way

Whats wrong with that. If I know I want a missile, you damn well better sell me that missile. The masses do act like children, and I blame the "children". I don't want the government babysitting me, I don't want my coffee cup to say "caution HOT", No shit, It's coffee, and ironically it's not the first time I've bought a cup of coffee either. I should have figured out by now that it's hot.

They do need to be treated like children. They need slapped on the butt and told NO!, they need to be disciplined and raised properly. They need direction and guidance, they also need to learn from their mistakes. That being said, they need to make mistakes to learn from. This is where as a society we have failed greatly. The coolest thing you can do today is get a gold "grillz" and live in the projects and drive an Escalade paid for by welfare checks. If you work your ass off, study, and make it for yourself your a loser. Society has failed, and now we're blaming the government that they didn't hold our hand and wipe our asses for us.

[Angrish]

I guess the only reason to invest in a house is to improve the quailty of life.

If you work in a cubical,Why would you want to rent one to live in?

You lose money on everything these days "except gold" so who cares. Buying a house sucks if your a lazy fuk!I know a lot of ppl who are rich from buyng selling houses .......I know a lot of ppl who rent < not so rich.And buying a couple of bikes and cars to wear on your sleeve doesn't make you rich.

And just for the ppl .............If you have moneys you can refi and get ,Put that money into a secured investment and then your house is worth the investment......or rent it out and make money like that.

[Angrish]

Neither would I, but millions out there don't see it that way.

Whats wrong with that. If I know I want a missile, you damn well better sell me that missile. The masses do act like children, and I blame the "children". I don't want the government babysitting me, I don't want my coffee cup to say "caution HOT", No shit, It's coffee, and ironically it's not the first time I've bought a cup of coffee either. I should have figured out by now that it's hot.

They do need to be treated like children. They need slapped on the butt and told NO!, they need to be disciplined and raised properly. They need direction and guidance, they also need to learn from their mistakes. That being said, they need to make mistakes to learn from. This is where as a society we have failed greatly. The coolest thing you can do today is get a gold "grillz" and live in the projects and drive an Escalade paid for by welfare checks. If you work your ass off, study, and make it for yourself your a loser. Society has failed, and now we're blaming the government that they didn't hold our hand and wipe our asses for us.

AMEN

[Dweezel]

As far as renting I couldn't explain it any better than Todd did in the other thread http://www.ohio-riders.net/showthread.php?t=8741. You think you're getting something buy owning a home. Take you're yearly expenses for maintenance, insurance, etc. and you'll never truly make money on your home when you sell it. But I hope that it's something you enjoy because in the end that's all that really matters.

This maybe true, more so in certain markets than others. You will take less of a financial loss when you move out of an owned home, vs moving out of a rented home. Ohio, yes you may, over the long term, maintenance, ins, upkeep etc included, lose money. But don't you have renters insurance? I'd certainly hope so.

The only thing you may save on renting vs owning is upkeep/maintenance. But it's not like you need to replace all major appliances, carpet, and furniture every month.

For arguements sake, I'm not going to say you instantly make a profit by selling a house. however, you do lose LESS money. There are plenty of people that MAKE money by owning houses, I've got a very good friend in NY, Alex, when his parents moved there from Russia/Georiga around 1985-6 they paid $150k for their house, It's appraised today at over $500k. Their neighbor up the street sold just a few months ago, for $570k. Are you trying to tell me that they've put over $350k into that house since they've bought it? I think your nuts if you are. The house is paid off, when they sell when they retire, they pocket (by that time probably) $600k dollars. I realize that this is West Chester NY, and not Columbus or Youngstown OH, but they pocket 100% of the selling price when they sell. What do you get when you move out of a rented appt? My old landlord didn't even help me pack, let alone give me any refund beyond my security deposit.

When you own a home, regardless of what you have totally invested in it in upkeep, anything you sell for above and beyond what you owe is pocked cash to put towards another house, car whatever you like. When you move out of an appt, I hope your not moving up to much, or else your security deposit won't even cover your next security deposit.

[r1crusher]

Dweez...I don't entirely disagree with what you're saying. If someone came to you asking for a loan and not asking anything else, would you lend it to them? I pretty sure you response would be "(insert question here)". Simply put that's the point I'm trying to make, you would engage them to determine a multitude of things. Lenders should be no different.

Acquiring a mortgage is a two way street and it takes both informed buyers as well as engaging lenders to help prevent what's happening in the housing market.

Oh...and as far as not knowing how to swim if you're going water skiing, covered....you'll have a PFD on.

[Dweezel]

Dweez...I don't entirely disagree with what you're saying. If someone came to you asking for a loan and not asking anything else, would you lend it to them? I pretty sure you response would be "(insert question here)". Simply put that's the point I'm trying to make, you would engage them to determine a multitude of things. Lenders should be no different.

This is very true. I'd ask a shit load of questions, I do lend decent amounts of cash to VERY trusted friends, allot of times with no questions because like I said, they're VERY trusted.

As an individual I don't make any money off of this, its always a 2 week, maybe a month loan at most. lending institutions make money from foreclosures, they're hoping you pay your loan back so they can make their 9% or whatever it is, but there also to an extent hoping you pay 50-90% of the loan off, then default. Then they get their property, all the money you've paid them, plus what they sell your property for above and beyond the balance you owe. They stand to make out big time if your a decent ways through your term and then default.

Acquiring a mortgage is a two way street and it takes both informed buyers as well as engaging lenders to help prevent what's happening in the housing market.

This is true, and no doubt, with the speed of which houses were bought and sold over the last few years, I'd be willing to bet allot of things were over looked simply to get people into houses, and information wasn't as readily available due to the haste, again IMHO, that comes back to "buyer beware".

Oh...and as far as not knowing how to swim if you're going water skiing, covered....you'll have a PFC on.

Dude It's been YEARS since I've been water skiing, I'm a great swimmer, Still wear a vest anytime you get behind a boat, skiing wears you out. never failed, every summer, first time out, couldn't walk the next day! you use muscles water skiing you never knew existed

[shittygsxr]

Going just a little deeper there are two type of banks, those that sell their loans and those who keep their loans. The bank I am with does not sell their loans and never will. They were slightly less profitable and now they are laughing their asses off. Most banks and mortgage banks give out a bunch of loans then sell them in $10million dollar blocks, so once they do that they wipe their hands clean. Alot of these companies have had to change thier practices because of "preditory lending" laws over the last couple of years. These institutions knew that there was no way in hell you could afford the loan but they did not explain details of purpose because they wanted to get you to sign and then sell the loan. They are being sued and alot have closed their doors and ran away

[Dweezel]

^ Learn something new every day!

[r1crusher]

Shitty is a plethora of knowledge.