Bad324 Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 I am trying to learn how this all works but then it gets really technical and I get frustrated and lose my mind so I could use your guys help explaining this in the dumbest way possible for me.Basically I want to know how do I figure out what the best settings are for my size and riding style and then exactly how do I go about doing this, particularly right now my VFR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shittygsxr Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 step 1: pay someone that know what they are doing the $50 they charge step 2: ride motorcycle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Adjust suspension all the way out (Lefty loosey), ride 'floater'Adjust suspension all the way in (Righty tighty), ride 'bucking bronco'Pick somewhere in between where you like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1crusher Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 First things first, you need to get the bikes sag setup. This usually takes two people. Google that first. Next is all about your and how you want to bike to ride. Make only small changes and test ride. Make notes of everything you've touched and where the settings are after every change. Rebound, compression, dampening can be dialed in for you as long as there's room. Google that next.Basically JFGI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Sag is a place to start for sure, but the issue is getting the right sag numbers. Typically, we run 35-40mm of sag on our bikes. That is probably too stiff for your machine on the street, but I suspect that 45-50mm might be a good area to think about.It takes more than two people. You need three.Check out this thread I did back in 2008. Again, the sag numbers were different then and we run more sag now today. So, take the numbers out of the deal and really just use this as a tool to get started.I am more than willing to help in any way I can. You DO NOT NEED TO SPEND $50 TO GET THIS DONE! That's pure bullshit and if I am accessible, I will do it for free. It's easy and quick.http://www.ohioriders.net/showthread.php?t=13966&highlight=setting+sag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shittygsxr Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Sag is a place to start for sure, but the issue is getting the right sag numbers. Typically, we run 35-40mm of sag on our bikes. That is probably too stiff for your machine on the street, but I suspect that 45-50mm might be a good area to think about.It takes more than two people. You need three.Check out this thread I did back in 2008. Again, the sag numbers were different then and we run more sag now today. So, take the numbers out of the deal and really just use this as a tool to get started.I am more than willing to help in any way I can. You DO NOT NEED TO SPEND $50 TO GET THIS DONE! That's pure bullshit and if I am accessible, I will do it for free. It's easy and quick.http://www.ohioriders.net/showthread.php?t=13966&highlight=setting+sagI think the $30 that Rueben charges is much easier than spending a season trying to figure it out. Do you think a newer rider even knows how the bike is supposed to feel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 I think the $30 that Rueben charges is much easier than spending a season trying to figure it out. Do you think a newer rider even knows how the bike is supposed to feel?$30 is fair for sure if you are just handing the bike over. In truth, when he does suspension, he sets sag on our shocks so we slap them on and we are good to go. I'm talking about guys that charge $50 and more for the service. WAY crap in my mind... Some guys on here were asking $75 plus to do basic suspension settings and I think that is ripping off fellow riders. Especially newer riders that want to learn.I feel they aren't going to really notice what the bike is doing until they get more seat time. BUT, they certainly can give comments that would paint a picture to point you in the right direction to go with.Like way too soft and plush, wallows around like a school bus, etc... A lot of times, we take a kid that has got a bike and simply clicking knobs. We set it up for proper sag and bounce it a bit and get it "close" and send them out. If it were us, we would start there and probably make changes to suit the rider's riding style. But, newer riders come in and are blown away as to how much better things feel.Suspension is amazing if you have it close to good. It's a struggle if it is way off and typically, it is.Guys run their chains too tight also. This is restricting the travel of the rear end and can create a false problem. Meaning, if the chain was loose where it needs to be, the rear end could travel more and work properly and really feel 100% different with just that change.I also think a lot of times, it is mental. My dad used to click knobs when I would tell him the bike felt weird and was holding me back on things. He'd click some and I'd come back and run faster and tell him it was the change he made. He later told me he didn't change a thing! A lot was in my head. Since, I am not a knob clicker... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Brian is correct.. but our TacoEater isn't a powder-puff. He'll need stiffer springs to do the job correctly.Sure. If you cannot get the sag where it needs to be or where he wants it to be and is maxed out on spring tension, he is going to need different springs. I'd be more than surprised to see there is softer than 1.0s in those forks for touring... I have been seeing heavier rated springs as of late on a lot of newer bikes and it used to be that we were seeing way too light of springs back in the day.That's certainly part of the equation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Since, I am not a knob clicker...Knob clicker... Just sounds funny. Not to be confused with Kevin, who's a knob licker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted January 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 First thing's first... find out what the spring rate is for those OEM springs. I'm guessing they're not the right size for your weight. A 230lb rider' date=' without gear, will need at least a 1.0kg/mm front spring kit and a 16kg/mm rear shock spring. (and that's if you aren't planning on running 2-up or with excessive luggage)[/quote']ok i think this is what I meant as opposed to what I said. I always read about pre-load and setting a suspension for weight and riding type.I should've mentioned this isn't for track or racing purposes. The VFR is primarily my "tourer" bike so my purpose is basically just trying to get the most out of my bike as well as a general understanding of how this works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 I think having it done professionally is smart' date=' but there's something to be said for someone wanting to learn what does what.[/quote']Agree 100%. However, like you mentioned, if a rider is shown how to do it, they see it isn't anything complex and isn't intimidating, they can learn a LOT in doing things on their own - ONLY IF they are doing it right. If they are doing it wrong, it is only going to snowball...I think riders need more education on suspension. I see even experienced track coaches telling guys the wrong info. The way they bounce the bike to check suspension for example... Little things that will give irregular results. It can be little, but again - if people don't know, they cannot understand as much as they could.I waste Reuben's time all the time with questions. I've been racing a LOOOOONG time and I still have stupid questions I should know by now. But, I have learned a lot in asking and I get my hands dirty when I can.But, I too send all my stuff to him. It's easier as I am a really busy guy, but I also trust he is doing it right and making sure I am as up to date as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 :eek::eek:I haven't found the rates for his Viffer' date=' but I think I found some for a 1998 VFR750 that listed .74kg/mm... [/quote']:eek::eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 ok i think this is what I meant as opposed to what I said. I always read about pre-load and setting a suspension for weight and riding type.I should've mentioned this isn't for track or racing purposes. The VFR is primarily my "tourer" bike so my purpose is basically just trying to get the most out of my bike as well as a general understanding of how this worksAgain, track or street - it's all the same. You are talking about rider sag. That is what you need to set that many if not all street guys tend to not ever do. They don't even discuss it in the owner's manuals...The spring rate being discussed is to compensate for different weighted riders. You may be 200, another guy is 150, a third is 300. They cannot cater to every rider and typically go with a middle number to suit the general masses.For example, my weight, I run a 1.0 or a .975 (Two different springs - .95 and a 1.0 for example)... It's tailored to weight for us to get the sag numbers we need and the way we want the stuff to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shittygsxr Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 (edited) Brian if you got on my bike and said this feels pretty good I would have much more piece of mind than if I read ten books and changed settings all day. I would say the problem the OP has is he has never ridden a properly set up bike and secondly he would be unsure of how to describe the feelings that the bike is giving him. So if you or Rueben helped him get the bike setup, and thenk read articles on suspension it would make a lot of sense because he would understand what a well setup suspension feels like Edited January 26, 2011 by shittygsxr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 You mean' date=' you can't check high speed dampening when the bike is sitting in the pits? Yeah.. I was confronted with that one last season.[/quote']SURE! Come over to my pits, pay me $75 and I will check your high speed compression.However, you actually can check the high speed by reading the tires... You can't measure it exactly, but I am betting the guy didn't mean by looking at the tires... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Brian if you got on my bike and said this feels pretty good I would have much more piece of mind than if I read ten books and changed settings all day. I would say the problem the OP has is he has never ridden a properly set up bike and secondly he would be unsure of how to describe the feelings that the bike is giving him. So if you or Rueben helped him get the bike setup I think if he read articles on suspension it would make a lot of sense because he would understand what a well setup suspension feels likeTrue, true. Again, I am willing to help anytime. Just am a busy guy and have a stupid schedule, but if we can ever meet, I am more than willing to help.Buy me a burger and a bottle of water... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 By the way, this is one of the best threads I have been a part of in a LOOOOOOOONG time. I have to step out for a trip to Staples, but will be back soon. Keep it coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter12 Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 I think I read something about some bikes actually being setup for a rider of 0 pounds! I have my doubts about this being truth, but would not be surprised if it is true! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted January 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Brian if you got on my bike and said this feels pretty good I would have much more piece of mind than if I read ten books and changed settings all day. I would say the problem the OP has is he has never ridden a properly set up bike and secondly he would be unsure of how to describe the feelings that the bike is giving him. So if you or Rueben helped him get the bike setup I think if he read articles on suspension it would make a lot of sense because he would understand what a well setup suspension feels likecompletely accurate. I've had my 05 600rr, 05 636 and this VFR and to my knowledge the suspension was never touched so its still whatever factory is. I have no problem letting a pro do it for me, but I like to at least understand what exactly it is they are doing and how it works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter12 Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 By the way, this is one of the best threads I have been a part of in a LOOOOOOOONG time. I have to step out for a trip to Staples, but will be back soon. Keep it coming!Hurry, someone threadjack it! No, really there is a bunch of good info flowing! Thanks guys that know what you're talking about! (Ok, even if you're just SOUNDING like you know what you're talking about! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 I think I read something about some bikes actually being setup for a rider of 0 pounds! I have my doubts about this being truth, but would not be surprised if it is true!Not possible... They'd have a .0000 spring rate or something ridiculously light rated.It used to be based on I think a 150 pound rider. Thus the light spring rates like .90... Some were lighter in earlier years like to the tune of a 130 pound rider, etc. Today, it seems they are getting it more so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 completely accurate. I've had my 05 600rr, 05 636 and this VFR and to my knowledge the suspension was never touched so its still whatever factory is. I have no problem letting a pro do it for me, but I like to at least understand what exactly it is they are doing and how it worksSo, do you want to know why the clickers are there and what they are intended for? I can try and help with that when I get back.Suspension is a black magic thing, also... Realize that there are a shit load of guys with millions of pieces of data in their heads. It can get pretty deep if it goes too far in terms of technical.I can explain to the best of my knowledge in a layman's type of way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 http://www.sportrider.com/sch/02/suspension/articles/index.htmlParticularly: http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0006_susp_dialin/index.html and http://www.sportrider.com/suspension_settings/suspension_setup/146_0402_suspension_setup_guide/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted January 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 It used to be based on I think a 150 pound rider. Thus the light spring rates like .90... Some were lighter in earlier years like to the tune of a 130 pound rider, etc. Today, it seems they are getting it more so...See this is why I've always been curious about this and wondered how it worked. As Pauly said I'm no skinny dude and weigh in at about 220 so I'd like to see what the difference would be if things were set more for my weight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter12 Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Not possible... They'd have a .0000 spring rate or something ridiculously light rated.It used to be based on I think a 150 pound rider. Thus the light spring rates like .90... Some were lighter in earlier years like to the tune of a 130 pound rider, etc. Today, it seems they are getting it more so...That's what I thought. I'll have to look into it. I think it may have been my VF500F that was said to be way under sprung for most riders. I believe it by the way if feels, too! I think Honda's approach to it was the air-pressure adjustment on the forks and shock. Sounds reliable to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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