shittygsxr Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 This is not meant as a cut on anyone but just a thought…Why is it that we are so quick to attack the compensation of other middle class workers? Is it because we are familiar with our pay scales and therefore we have strong opinions on what we feel that they should get paid? Or is this the Kool-Aid given to us from the powers-that-be?I think that it is the Kool-Aid. A common “Art of War” technique is to weaken your adversaries by pitting them against themselves. If we are so busy fighting amongst ourselves, whether it be white collar vs blue collar, private vs public, or anything else we cannot see or fight against the real waste fraud and abuse. Has anyone seen http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2011-03-31-ceo-pay-2010.htm? (CEO pay jumped 27% while we struggle to pay the bills) Is anyone aware that a CEO in the United States earns on average 50% more than a CEO in Europe for a comparable size and valued company? Hey, I have no problem with people being rewarded for their hard work and level of education or even with receiving bonuses but let’s recognize that there is a limit for fair compensation for these individuals. When there bonuses exceed their base pay or come when the company is failing there is a HUGE problem (AIG, Leman Bros. Bank of America, Chevrolet, Chrysler, etc). But we are told that the problem is the unions? Leaves me scratching my head. Unfortunately there is more than one thing wrong with this country and you have to start somewhere. If all of the public school teachers are so underpaid then why don't they go work for a private school. Their arguments have nothing to do with the wages of teachers in the private sector, but instead point to other misuses of money. To be 100% honest it sounds like the guy who gets pulled over for speeding and points to the other cars and says "they were going faster than I was" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drc32-0 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) "an incentive to work weekends"....Um.. all my boss has to say is' date=' "You're working this weekend." Ohio Law doesn't give me an option, besides walking off the job. The whining from some of these privileged employees makes me laugh. Why do they get preferential treatment over me? Should there be a law that protects them more than me? Where's the fair application? FTR, this isn't meant to ridicule Drew. I'm tossing arguments in the mix for discussion. Although, I do believe they are valid arguments.[/quote']Why do they get better treatment than you?They united and stood up for themselves!You're the one whining,if you don't like the treatment you receive then go somewhere else...don't drag others down to your condition.Yes I get time and a half on Saturday,double time on Sunday,no I'm not in the public sector.I've just seen what guys working non-union at the same job I do earn,it's not for me.I have no desire to make some non-union boss richer by letting him/her rip me off.Stand up for yourself.Fair?Quess what,life isn't fair!I just saw where the ceo of trans-ocean just got a $374,000 safety bonus as part of his $5.8 million dollar compensation package.Remember trans-ocean?They're the ones who operated the oil platform that blew-up and dumped millions of gallons of oil in the gulf.And by the way,they also killed eleven men.And the CEO gets a safety bonus,now THAT'S worth whining about! Edited April 4, 2011 by drc32-0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubbersidedown Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Back on subject of SB5…Before I could support SB5 or vote yes if it comes to a referendum vote I will need answers to some high level questions.Who started the bill and why?How will it affect me and my finances?What is the end game?Who started the bill and why…What I have found is that the idea for the bill came from the organization Americans for Prosperity (who wouldn’t be on board of an organization with a great name like that). AFP composed primarily of high net worth individuals (code for rich as hell). The figure heads of AFP are the Koch brothers; their net worth is $33 billion, the b is not a typo. The primary focus of AFP is union busting, private or public. This was personified in Wisconsin when the unions offered concessions and they were rejected by Governor Scott Walker. Americans for Prosperity (AFP) is a group fronting special interests started by oil billionaire David Koch and Richard Fink (a member of the board of directors of Koch Industries). AFP has been accused of funding astroturf operations but also has been fueling the "Tea Party" efforts. [1] AFP's messages are in sync with those of other groups funded by the Koch Family Foundations and the Koch's other special interest groups that work against progressive or Democratic initiatives and protections for workers and the environment. Accordingly, AFP opposes labor unions, health care reform, stimulus spending, and cap-and-trade legislation, which is aimed at making industries pay for the air pollution that they create. AFP was also involved in the attacks on Obama’s "green jobs" czar, Van Jones, and has crusaded against international climate talks. According to an article in the August 30, 2010 issue of The New Yorker, the Kochs are known for "creating slippery organizations with generic-sounding names," that "make it difficult to ascertain the extent of their influence in Washington." AFP's budget surged from $7 million in 2007 to $40 million in 2010, an election year. [2][3]Source- http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Americans_for_ProsperityAmericans for Prosperity benefit from union busting because with no unions trick down is replace with an upward flow of cash, redistribution of wealth (code word GREED). Again, I’m all for a CEO or entrepreneur being compensated for their hard work and ingenuity, I just don’t go for it being on the backs and abuse of the middle class, white or blue.How will it affect me and my finances…I have not heard any fact based reports that this will actually save money. All I have heard is “unsubstantiated savings”. I need more than Kasich telling me that it is going to save me money. Does anyone know of such a report???If this is going to lay the ground work for merit based pay there arguably be no cost savings. The better employees will get more pay the bad will get less and the pot will stay the same size. Not to mention there is no structure for the reviews, either the forms or periodicity. That will have to be set up, who’s picking up that consulting bill? Current supervisors are not familiar with conducting these periodic review or managing said payroll budget. With the union format this has been set. Who is paying for the education here?I don’t see the savings.What is the end game…Did you notice that this bill is supported by the Republican party across the board? Why is it so strongly supported by the GOP?Here it is…Unions both private and public make huge contributions to the DNC as the private sectors make huge contributions to the GOP. (No unions = no union dues = no DNC contributions) With the unions gone so is a large source of income for the DNC’s. This cuts of the enemy at the knees and reduces the ability to stand strong in the political arena. Now some of our Republican riders will think that this is great, but think of this…a political arena with only one party is a DICTATORSHIP!!! Maybe not in the truest since but in spirit since there would effectively only be one choice.I believe in balance. I chose to piss in the “Kool-Aid” and drink a cold beer of enlightenment! Who’s with me? I’m buying the first round! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4DAIVI PAI2K5 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 hummm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew95gt Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) Time and a half just for weekends not OT. Yeah working for a county hospital has it's perks. I love both jobs though. Even with the extra pay I'm still barely making over the national average for my position. And yeah shittygsxr I am a little salty but I am thankful I still have work to do...which is a lot better than many folks have it these days. Also, any cuts are felt double at my house because the wifey works for the same hospital. Edited April 4, 2011 by drew95gt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Unfortunately there is more than one thing wrong with this country and you have to start somewhere.why not start where you SHOULD, with all the giant tax breaks for corporations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drc32-0 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) LoL... I'm not whining. I'm pointing out the law of this state regarding overtime. I make more than enough money to live a comfortable lifestyle. My intent wasn't to display a sense of self-pity. Believe me' date=' I'm far better off not being beholden to some union or company benefits. I'll go my own way, if it's all the same to you. If you don't like the way big oil runs it's companies, maybe you should ride one of them pedal bikes? You're just as much a part of the problem as the next guy. Besides.... you're way off topic.[/quote']No,I'm on topic...it is the greed,incompetence and unaccountability of the wealthy that got us in this mess,not public workers pay or benifits.Now they're using the ages old stratagy of divide and conquer,and you're falling for it.Personally,I would like to see all working people making good wages.I don't care if the wealthy make lots of money,but they must be competent and accountable.The trans-ocean CEO was neither. Edited April 4, 2011 by drc32-0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubbersidedown Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 Wait.. time and a half just for working a weekend? Is this post 40 hours' date=' or just because you went in on a Saturday? Ohio Overtime Laws:[url']http://blog.laborlawtalk.com/2006/11/28/ohio-mandatory-overtime-laws/Overtime laws were originally set by the Federal Government by the Fair Labor and Standards Act of 1938. State governments and other companies follow this legislation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubbersidedown Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 No,I'm on topic...it is the greed,incompetence and unaccountability of the wealthy that got us in this mess,not public workers pay or benifits.Now they're using the ages old stratagy of divide and conquer,and you're falling for it.Personally,I would like to see all working people making good wages.I don't care if the wealthy make lots of money,but they must be competent and accountable.The trans-ocean CEO was neither."Candyman tell "em the truth!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Read HB 153: Gov. Kasich wants to change how teachers are paidCOLUMBUS — Ohio Gov. John Kasich wants to change the way teachers currently get paid by tying their wages to how well they and their students do in the classroom. The first-term Republican governor’s pitch for overhauling teachers’ salaries and their evaluations is part of the $55.6 billion, two-year budget the Ohio House recently passed. Teachers’ unions contend the proposal relies too heavily on students’ test scores. But legislators who back the performance-pay idea say it’s time teachers get paid for how much their students are learning and not how long they’ve been teaching. The spending proposal is being debated before a state Senate committee. Lawmakers face a June 30 deadline to pass the budget. Here are some questions and answers about how the legislation affects teachers’ pay and evaluations: Q: How would teachers’ wages change under the plan? A: Teachers’ salaries would be based on how they are rated in a new evaluation process. Their amount of training and number of years teaching — the main components in their current salary schedules — would not be given as much weight. Instead, their employers would rate them on four categories that range from “highly effective” to “unsatisfactory.” This new pay scale system would begin in the 2013-2014 school year. Q: Who would develop the guidelines? A: The state superintendent would come up with a new framework that schools must use for teacher evaluations. The State Board of Education would then review and vote on the plan. Local boards and superintendents could have a chance to tailor it to their schools’ needs and also include any input from unions. Q: Who develops the evaluation standards now? A: It varies by schools. Local school districts have their own set of criteria, which become part of union contracts with the teachers. The state has a set of recommended standards they can follow, which include whether teachers grasp the topics they are teaching and understand how students learn and use tests effectively. Q: What would these new yearly reviews look like? A: It’s unclear. That will be largely up to the state superintendent and State Board of Education. What is known is that the evaluations must consider how well the teacher communicates and the quality of their teaching. In addition, the educators would have to be observed in the classroom for at least 30 minutes twice a year. Employers would have to use other measures of student progress and teachers’ skills, which have not yet been determined. Q: How much emphasis would be put on students’ performances? A: At least 50 percent of each teacher evaluation would be based on state test scores and how much students improve over the previous year. Q: Would students and parents get to weigh in on how teachers are doing? A: Yes. Under the legislation, parent and student satisfaction would have to be considered in the evaluations. Q: Do the teachers favor that idea? A: Not exactly. Matt Dotson, a lobbyist for the Ohio Education Association, says there are better ways for parents to be involved in their children’s education than having them directly review teachers and have that be a part of teachers’ employment status. While student input should be sought, he says, it gives kids the chance to get back at a teacher for giving them a bad grade. Q: Then why have parents and kids give feedback on teachers? A: They know whether a teacher is good or not, says Rep. Gerald Stebelton, who chairs the House Education Committee. “I think the best person in the world to judge the effectiveness of the teacher is the student,” said Stebelton, a Lancaster Republican. Q: When would the new evaluation process take effect? A: The framework would have to be in place by the end of this year. The State Board of Education would then have until July 2012 to vote on the guidelines, so the new evaluations could be implemented in the 2012-2013 school year. Q: How would the evaluations be used? A: Employers would use them to make decisions not just on how much money the teacher makes, but also who would be the first to go if there were layoffs.Download the report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cOoTeR Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 So special ed teachers are fucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Who cares, I'm not a special ed. teacher and I don't have any special ed. kids, amirite? It's the American way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cOoTeR Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Who cares, I'm not a special ed. teacher and I don't have any special ed. kids, amirite? It's the American way.You should care now were going to have a shit load of stupid uneducated special people running around out there. Maybe this is the end of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 You don't need smarts when you have retard strength. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) ** Edited May 25, 2011 by Steve Butters replied in wrong thread - lollerfail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 You should care now were going to have a shit load of stupid uneducated special people running around out there. Maybe this is the end of the world.Don't we already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cOoTeR Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Don't we already?No they are educated now. Haven't you seen the movie Rainman? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drc32-0 Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 I love how Kasich is always spouting off about the virtues of merit pay.Let's see,he had one private sector job...executive at Lehman brothers.How did that work out? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyco1 Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Put it on the ballot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyco1 Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 SB5 claims it's first victim.http://www.progressohio.org/blog/2011/05/facing-strong-backlash-over-sb5-vote-republican-state-senator-jimmy-stewart-resigns.html 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gidet Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 (edited) I work in a factory that makes seats for Honda and we aren't union. They give us raises every once in a while, shut down pay, and everything that unions get, but like I said, we are NOT union. If we have a problem with the company we are encouraged to bring it up so we can make our work environment better for everyone. Unions are pointless now a days if you work for an outstanding company that knows what the hell they are doing. Edit: As for government workers why shouldn't they be able to to this too? I agree with Casper.. if you do your job right despite what you're doing you should be rewarded for it but if you don't do anything and expect to be paid the same as the hard working employee it's wrong. This kind of reminds me of school projects where you're assigned to a group of four people and you end up doing all the work but they get the same grade as you, it's not fair and should be changed. Hopefully I'm getting this subject enough otherwise I'll just look like an ass. Edited May 29, 2011 by gidet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 Unions are pointless now a days if you work for an outstanding company that knows what the hell they are doing.thats a big IF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 She's young... has lots of learnin' left to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gidet Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 thats a big IF.I know it's a big if, that's why I put it there. Not all companies are as legit as mine. For example I got hurt at work, got paid leave, hand therapy and all that jazz and didn't have to pay for a thing and got to come back to my job no problem. She's young... has lots of learnin' left to do. I know I just turned 20 years old but I've been working since I was younger as a dishwasher and I'd like to think through all of my experiences with "lyfe" I have a slight grasp on things going on. I know I have a lot to learn but I still think unions are not fair (see: school example in previous post) But I don't want to start a "fight" about this so I'll just take that comment which I don't think was meant to be offensive at all. It's just my opinion that's all. I'm not trying to rub anyone the wrong way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 There's no fighting, just educated discussion on this board.And sex jokes, lots of sex jokes.But if you have an opinion, be expected to back it up with solid reasoning -- or get called out on it by the dissenters, the trollers, and sometimes, only for the lulz.So, take your stance now lil lady... are you pro or anti-SB5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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