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president to speak to the nation tonight at 10:30 (5/1)


Tomcat0403

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Was healthcare in the original constitution? No, so that point..

is moot.

Is it required? Yes, but again its not required that you have to get insurance through the government. You can get it through work, as most people do now or through not being a complete retard and getting insurance on your own. In my eyes the only real thing this bill does is try to protect the stupid and poor by requiring them to get health insurance so if something is wrong they can get medical assistance.

Am I a fan of the bill? No. Did I want it to pass? No. Is it realistically going to effect me? Little to none. Does it have what can be considered a socialist agenda? Sure, because at its basic level I'd like to think all its doing is trying to protect the poor and give them benefits that people who are better off can afford.

The point is not moot because the federal government is limited in its capacity. There are 18 enumerated powers please tell me which enumerated power allows them to require me to carry health insurance or be taxed and possibly jailed? Now that is freedom! Welcome to the land of the used to be free!

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I don't understand your thinking personally. You say first right wing to get rid of socialist policies, but you are thinking of voting for obama is wants more and signed obama care.

Liberals are not for personal freedoms for instance they support gay rights but only if it gives them more power. If gays want the right to marry they should support libertarians that believe it is none of the Governments business. Liberals are generally anti gun also. Libertarians are the hands off party. Which is why I side with them on most aspects. I believe we should have a military and they do not.

I don't understand your english, personally...

Yes, I'm more right wing than Pauly on most things.

Yes, I realize Obama is not representative of my political position.

I also realize that over the last couple decades, there has been a pretty common theme....

Republican in the white house= boom and bust market, sharp recessions, and unemployment increases on the whole.

Democrat in the white house= general prosperity, job growth, balanced budgets.

now obama has had some time to work, 2 years isn't "nothing" but the housing market bust, was a hell of a hit, and it's gonna take some time to get this ship turned around. I see it turning around, more job postings, more help wanted signs...

Democrats just tend to do a better job managing this socialism that we already have, I wish we didn't have it, but the republicans flat out suck at managing it, and none of them have the testicular fortitude to drastically change it... Dr. Paul talks about it a lot, so that's why he's on my radar.

no more income tax... bye bye 16th amendment.

will he get it done, even if he is elected? probably not, but it'd be nice to try.

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Since the "health care" debate has been brought into this thread as well... Obama is SUCH a socialist, he's spreading it to the Republicans now too!! It's like an uncontrollable commie virus. :eek:

Rep. Paul Ryan and the GOP love them some health-care mandates, two times

Simon Lazarus raises an important observation: the highly-touted House GOP budget plan, as shaped by Paul Ryan, includes a health care mandate, too. In fact, it includes more than one.

The Ryan budget would reshape Americans' access to health insurance mainly through two provisions, both of which pressure people to purchase private health insurance to an extent and through mechanisms that are materially indistinguishable from the supposedly toxic Obamacare mandate. One of these Ryan budget proposals -- as yet little noticed by pundits or politicians -- is almost an exact copy of its equivalent in the Affordable Care Act. [...]

Under both provisions, the result is the same: People who choose to carry health insurance have a lower tax bill than they would if they chose not to. In terms of their respective potential impact on individuals' bank accounts and tax liability, the manner in which they affect individuals' financial incentives, and hence the constraining effect on individuals' financial choices to either buy or forgo health insurance, the two "mandate" provisions are identical. (Indeed, in most cases, the financial difference for the individual taxpayer made by the Republican tax credit would be greater -- i.e., more "coercive" -- than the ACA tax penalty.)

In addition to cloning the ACA's framework for coverage of adults under 65, the Ryan budget would also apply a similar approach to Americans currently covered by Medicare. Beginning in 2021, former Medicare-eligibles would receive a voucher they can apply to the purchase of private insurance. According to the Congressional Budget Office, the vouchers would be worth approximately $6,000 for recipients age 65, and would be greater for older recipients, averaging $11,000 across the entire Medicare population. Of course, Americans would be required to continue to pay their annual Medicare tax throughout their working lives. Hence, the Republicans' proposal to replace Medicare with partially subsidized private insurance also operates to "compel" people to pay for private health insurance policies. Moreover, this mandate is not even a pay-or-play option; Medicare taxes are mandatory, whether workers want to buy eligibility for old-age vouchers or not.

Nearly every member of the House Republican caucus voted for this budget plan, and said nary a word about the freedom-crushing provision included by Paul Ryan.

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Agreed let's vote some working people in and get rid of the politicians.

that wouldnt even work, because as soon as they got there theyd start lining their pockets too.

a person cant change the system. the system changes the person.

hell we could all vote for YOU, but the minute someone opens a briefcase full of cash for you, youd throw us under the bus too.

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that wouldnt even work, because as soon as they got there theyd start lining their pockets too.

a person cant change the system. the system changes the person.

hell we could all vote for YOU, but the minute someone opens a briefcase full of cash for you, youd throw us under the bus too.

The idea is to limit their terms. I wouldn't be so sure that I would take the cash you don't know me.

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So what would you guys say the percentage of C.E.O.s and upper management in this country are,republican or democrat?I'm thinking it would lean pretty heavy in the republican direction.It was the C.E.O.s and management that sent our jobs and economy to a socialist country...not Obama.They are the socialist.If you shop at communist china mart,or try to save a buck by buying some communist near-slave labor products your just as socialist,or more,than Obama.Republicans seem to think socialism is o.k. if it makes them a buck,but if it's helping someone else it's the spawn of satan.Hypocrites.

Edited by drc32-0
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The idea is to limit their terms. I wouldn't be so sure that I would take the cash you don't know me.

obviously you are a retard because you ride a harley. Do you really think the answer is getting a uneducated "working" man in power.

Maybe some overly educated professor types are in order

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So you don't think an average person should be in government? Why? How educated were the men who wrote the constition and founding documents?

No. The average person in America is an idiot.

They were mostly very educated.

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So what would you guys say the percentage of C.E.O.s and upper management in this country are,republican or democrat?I'm thinking it would lean pretty heavy in the republican direction.It was the C.E.O.s and management that sent our jobs and economy to a socialist country...not Obama.They are the socialist.If you shop at communist china mart,or try to save a buck by buying some communist near-slave labor products your just as socialist,or more,than Obama.Republicans seem to think socialism is o.k. if it makes them a buck,but if it's helping someone else it's the spawn of satan.Hypocrites.
No. The average person in America is an idiot.

This made me laugh and then I see that it's well documented common knowledge.

The average person votes to their best interests which means democrats get to hold office because for the most part they take from the producers and give to the idiots who vote them into power. Most C.E.O.s are republicans and when democrats hold office they create a bureaucracy that is an unfriendly business environment. C.E.O.s are not stupid and if they are concerned about their business and their bottom line, (Remember successful businesses need to balance their budgets not like the government.) they seek a climate that is more business friendly. If the politicians wouldn't make socialist laws that forced business out of the country most businesses would prefer to stay here. It’s a direct result of bad laws that force business out of an unfriendly business climate not the other way around.

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This made me laugh and then I see that it's well documented common knowledge.

The average person votes to their best interests which means democrats get to hold office because for the most part they take from the producers and give to the idiots who vote them into power. Most C.E.O.s are republicans and when democrats hold office they create a bureaucracy that is an unfriendly business environment. C.E.O.s are not stupid and if they are concerned about their business and their bottom line, (Remember successful businesses need to balance their budgets not like the government.) they seek a climate that is more business friendly. If the politicians wouldn't make socialist laws that forced business out of the country most businesses would prefer to stay here. It’s a direct result of bad laws that force business out of an unfriendly business climate not the other way around.

Businesses go do business overseas because it's cheaper, plain and simple. There are all sorts of incentives to export jobs like tax breaks and lower worker pay , not because of OMG SOCIALIZMS!!!1!1

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I don't get this socialism stuff either. :dunno:

Corporations lobby to have their agenda put into Washington, so I don't know how people can decry socialism when big businesses are the reason a lot of these laws are made. You can't make an argument that the gov't is socialist and then say they're all just crooked puppets just being bought by the highest bidder. That's what you WANTED, right? Basically a privatization of the gov't. Corporations are voting with their dollars and they got lots more than you. Sorry.

Who's going to benefit because of the healthcare law? The medical insurance industry, a private sector business. Why? Because they lobbied us right out of a single-payer system that would've benefited the people.

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One of the reasons it's cheaper is because of complicit people holding office giving away money to public employees because they don't have to afford it because it's not their money and they don't have to balance a budget even though they claim they are. In order to pay for the unrealistic money they promise they must raise taxes which is one of the reasons why it's cheaper to do business elsewhere.

The single payer system would have put more control to the government which rarely runs things well with the exception of our military and our roads. If the government didn't over regulate healthcare and force businesses to give away care our costs wouldn't be out of sight like they are now thanks to the government creating a problem they intend to be a solution for.

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One of the reasons it's cheaper is because of complicit people holding office giving away money to public employees because they don't have to afford it because it's not their money and they don't have to balance a budget even though they claim they are. In order to pay for the unrealistic money they promise they must raise taxes which is one of the reasons why it's cheaper to do business elsewhere.

You have to be trolling...

The single payer system would have put more control to the government which rarely runs things well with the exception of our military and our roads. If the government didn't over regulate healthcare and force businesses to give away care our costs wouldn't be out of sight like they are now thanks to the government creating a problem they intend to be a solution for.

Huh?

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The idea is to limit their terms. I wouldn't be so sure that I would take the cash you don't know me.

sure you would.

and if on some slim chance you actually didnt, well, thats fine... but you just ostracized yourself. any bill you bring up dies in committee. and when its time for re-election, they pay for someone else's election campaign and you get voted out.

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No. The average person in America is an idiot.

They were mostly very educated.

The average person meaning you! Last time I checked ivy league colleges didn't exist in the founding. Our forefathers were farmers and average folk of course I guess its possible my racist troll history book is different than yours. I don't buy into the crap the liberals teach. I believe America is a great nation filled with great people unlike the libs.

Racist troll out!

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