cOoTeR Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 hell not it's not but you have to keep in mind they are bringing it on themselves. and to others. just like the innocent guys in the video coming the opposite way that almost got hit.now I'm not blaming the riders in the video for that guy's actions but if everyone would stop doing track speeds because they think it makes them cool, the people that live there wouldn't be acting like that.because that's not the only one that has. even in different counties people are pulling that kind of thing.some have ran out in the road with guns pointed at riders.true. I don't want to catch the wrath of some wack job when they snap because several others have pissed them off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BonkerS Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Did you expect him to run forever? The truck wasn't giving up, even after 5 minutes of chasing the guy. Second bike was following his friend to make sure he was alright. I realize that running over the bike isnt anything they could use deadly force for - my comment about the truck being used as a weapon was when the driver tried to murder the rider using his truck. The guy was clearly not leaving without a confrontation of some sort - to say that the bikers are to blame for provoking and escalating the situation is absurd.I agree. Obviously the truck separated the pair, and if I was the second rider, there would be no way I would try to make a pass after seeing what he did to the first rider. There was no way that situation was going away without some sort of confrontation. Either way, the truck driver brought it upon himself.As for the whole gun argument, well it doesn't really matter in the end because it was not part of the equation, it's all speculation at this point. As for the truck driver pulling out the tire iron, well yeah, I would too being it was 2v1, but as I said, the idiot created the situation in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentracer Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 As someone who lives on a road favored by bikers I understand the locals view. I don't live on a road like that, even I can relate.I think the biggest problem is if you like to ride it in 3rd at 65mph it sounds like you are flying. if guys would be more discrete about it (quieter exhausts and keeping it in a higher gear) maybe less people wouldn't notice us too much.I've always been on the fence about passing on the double yellow. as I hate to follow someone who blatantly ignores the posted speed limit (doing 35 in a 55). but I know when I do pass them it probably makes them mad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 hell not it's not but you have to keep in mind they are bringing it on themselves. and to others. just like the innocent guys in the video coming the opposite way that almost got hit.now I'm not blaming the riders in the video for that guy's actions but if everyone would stop doing track speeds because they think it makes them cool, the people that live there wouldn't be acting like that.because that's not the only one that has. even in different counties people are pulling that kind of thing.some have ran out in the road with guns pointed at riders.i understand what youre saying....but there are other ways the locals can pursue the problem rather than trying to hurt the riders....but it only takes that one crazy person who has reached their limit to start causing people to lose their lives....that guy in the truck could have killed several people in just the 5 minute chase he had with the bikes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cOoTeR Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Next time youre stopped by a police officer, reach behind your seat, grab a tire iron, get out of the car and brandish it at the officer....i would say you will get tazed. he doesnt have to swing it for it to be a weaponThe first rider was well ahead and clear of the truck. He was off his bike and waiting at the stop sign. Taxed not shot not deadly force. They aren't law officers pulling him over. Prove he didn't have the tire iron to tighten down something on his load after that rough ride. Check the Ohio attorney generals website it has court cases defining a weapon. It states something along the lines of a tool is not a weapon until the person holding it attempts to use it as one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 As for the truck driver pulling out the tire iron, well yeah, I would too being it was 2v1, but as I said, the idiot created the situation in the first place.I took it as an offensive move, not defensive. Seemed like "I'll teach you not to fuck with me." as opposed to "Oh my gosh, 2v1 they might kick my ass. I better grab something to protect myself."everything is speculation at this point, it could have gone several ways but it didnt...it is what it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BonkerS Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 i understand what youre saying....but there are other ways the locals can pursue the problem rather than trying to hurt the riders....but it only takes that one crazy person who has reached their limit to start causing people to lose their lives....that guy in the truck could have killed several people in just the 5 minute chase he had with the bikesExactly. I like how they so easily pass judgement like they themselves have never done anything bad themselves. This truck driver is a perfect example, as mentioned, look at how many lives he put at risk just so he could be all high and mighty and prove his point to those evil rebel bikers.In the end, they all look like morons and no party is any better than the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentracer Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 i understand what youre saying....but there are other ways the locals can pursue the problem rather than trying to hurt the riders....but it only takes that one crazy person who has reached their limit to start causing people to lose their lives....that guy in the truck could have killed several people in just the 5 minute chase he had with the bikesthat's right. even more reason for the riders to stop basically provoking the people who live on those roads. they are not a race track. and I honestly was not an angel but I do now realize it's time to stop riding like that.track days help.you should have seen the day some guy tried to get my brother and I to rear end him. he locked up his tires in the middle of 165 and he was traveling at 60 when we came up on him. we barely escaped that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cOoTeR Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 I took it as an offensive move, not defensive. Seemed like "I'll teach you not to fuck with me." as opposed to "Oh my gosh, 2v1 they might kick my ass. I better grab something to protect myself."everything is speculation at this point, it could have gone several ways but it didnt...it is what it isThey approached the truck before he got out with the tire iron. Not offensive he didn't chase them when they backed up not offensive. If they shot him they would be in deep shit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cOoTeR Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Yes he tried to kill the guy with his truck. But that was way before they stopped. The legal system will see it as they were perpetuating the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 They approached the truck before he got out with the tire iron. Not offensive he didn't chase them when they backed up not offensive. If they shot him they would be in deep shitTrue. They should have let the guy run them over a few times, back up and hit them again for good measure, and then finally decided to defend themselves. Those damn hooligan AFJs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cOoTeR Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Have you taken a ccw course? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Yes he tried to kill the guy with his truck. But that was way before they stopped. The legal system will see it as they were perpetuating the situation.I just dont understand how some homicidal maniac tries to murder a biker for passing him on a double yellow, and you are now saying that the truck driver is the victim because the bikers instigated it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Wheeler Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 If you live on a road where trafic is fast and you dont like it, MOVE. Speeding is not provocation for violence.I personaly believe some people are just prone to violence without provocation. Hence our prison system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cOoTeR Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 True. They should have let the guy run them over a few times, back up and hit them again for good measure, and then finally decided to defend themselves. Those damn hooligan AFJs.[/quote Approaching a truck that is attempting to run you over is dumb. If he was attempting to run them over why didn't he? There was nothing between them but air and opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Have you taken a ccw course?yes - and i already admitted in a post further up that i hadnt stopped to consider that there was 2 of them vs him and that i also thought they would have trouble in court. i already admitted that my first post was not accurate. the two of them would have been able to take down the guy without using deadly force. if it had been just the truck driver and the biker - i stand by my initial argument that it would be self defense, the biker cant be expected to run forever, further endangering himself and others. and when he stopped they had words, and then the guy retrieved a weapon from his truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BonkerS Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 I just dont understand how some homicidal maniac tries to murder a biker for passing him on a double yellow, and you are now saying that the truck driver is the victim because the bikers instigated it.Unfortunately he is right. That is how the courts would see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cOoTeR Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 I just dont understand how some homicidal maniac tries to murder a biker for passing him on a double yellow, and you are now saying that the truck driver is the victim because the bikers instigated it.I never said he was the victim. I said they couldn't legally use deadly force on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cOoTeR Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 yes - and i already admitted in a post further up that i hadnt stopped to consider that there was 2 of them vs him and that i also thought they would have trouble in court. i already admitted that my first post was not accurate. the two of them would have been able to take down the guy without using deadly force. if it had been just the truck driver and the biker - i stand by my initial argument that it would be self defense, the biker cant be expected to run forever, further endangering himself and others. and when he stopped they had words, and then the guy retrieved a weapon from his truck.But he never went at them with the "weapon". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cOoTeR Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Unfortunately he is right. That is how the courts would see it.The courts would argue they shoulda pulled over and called police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 but i do see the point where it was 2 on 1, which might be the only thing that would trip them up in court, i didnt consider the second guy being thereI never said he was the victim. I said they couldn't legally use deadly force on him.are you trying to prove some kind of point, or trying to belittle me? either way - i already admitted at the top of this page that i hadnt stopped to consider the second guyits like somebody saying "2+2 is 5" then you saying, "no, its 4" then them admitting they were wrong, only to have you keep hammering awayim not sure what youre trying to express to me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BonkerS Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 The courts would argue they shoulda pulled over and called police.I was agreeing with you, goof! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolWhip Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 The courts would argue they shoulda pulled over and called police.I thought that is what they were doing when they were all on cell phones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cOoTeR Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 are you trying to prove some kind of point, or trying to belittle me? either way - i already admitted at the top of this page that i hadnt stopped to consider the second guyits like somebody saying "2+2 is 5" then you saying, "no, its 4" then them admitting they were wrong, only to have you keep hammering awayim not sure what youre trying to express to me?I'm not trying to belittle you I'm sorry you see it that way. I never said the 2vs1 was the deal breaker. 1on1 the guy still couldn't shoot him. That's the scary thing about carrying, there's a lot you need to process before making a split second decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 we actually had this happen to us last summer on a trip down to WV. my uncle (jschaf on here) passed a guy in a jeep grand cherokee who was driving rather slowly and the guy proceeded to try to catch him and drive down the center of the road stopping me and my other uncle from passing. i think the guy got up to at least 100mph on the straights trying to catch up to jschaf, who had been given about a minute to get ahead of the guy before he decided to start going all crazy. he was also taking the corners at dangerous speeds for that type of vehicle, not to mention he was fully in the oncoming lane while going around the blind curves. i decided to stay the hell back. i thought for sure we were going to get gunned down at the next traffic stop if the guy didn't cause some horrific accident on the way. crazy people everywhere i guess. was half expecting to see that same black grand cherokee in the video heh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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