Fazerlady Posted July 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Thank you C-Bus and Scruit for the subjective answers and attempting to understand what I am trying to say. Again, I am not saying she should get off without any punishment! She drove drunk, a definite bad and wrong decision in my book. If i drink I won't drive, and if I am driving, I won't drink! There, that easy! I also understand if it would have been my loved one, I wish she would get the worsed punishment. I was simply trying to look at this without my personal emotion. That brings me to another question. How about if you drive on a suspended license? Is that not breaking the law? There was an article in the DDN a few months back, where a driver only got a CITATION for driving with a suspended license. She actually hit an 6 yr old kid and killed him. A Citation? Seriously? This on as well broke the law and make a poor choice and did not get charged with anything.... Wow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowroller Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) Punishment to fit the crime. Driving drunk is not only against the law but try driving at 2x the limit there most certainly will be a bad result. While driving without a license is against the law it doesn't rise to the level of knowingly driving impaired. Edited July 20, 2011 by Slowroller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthrnSqrl Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 If the guy had been walking down the road, and she hit him, he would have died...because he was not wearing a helmet. The only thing different here is that instead of walking down the road, he was sitting on his motorcycle.I say fry the bitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carwhore Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 i think the charges are correct. I think she should of actually got a harsher punishment.Also Riderps. I think dude was robbing the cradle (63 and wife 43) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 fuck the driver...throw the book at em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 it said in the article he died of severe headtrauma. No, I don't know 100% he would have lived, but his chances would have been much better, they do not make helmets to keep your head nice and toasty warm. My buddy Kenny died of severe head trauma when a lady turned left in front of him. He was in full gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) That brings me to another question. How about if you drive on a suspended license? Is that not breaking the law? There was an article in the DDN a few months back, where a driver only got a CITATION for driving with a suspended license. She actually hit an 6 yr old kid and killed him. A Citation? Seriously? Another valid question, with a long but precise answer:When you kill someone with a car it can be anything from an accident to a murder (google Clara Harris). Usually if we hear abotu it in the news it's somwhere beteeen those extremes - where the driver is criminally responsible for the accidental death.Ohio has 3 levels of criminally responsible accidental death. (in increasing severity) Vehicular Manslaughter, Vehicular Homicide and Aggravated Vehicular Homicide. Vehicular Manslaughter can be charged when the detail was a "proximate result" of violating any traffic offense. Vehicular Homicide can be charged when the death was caused by negligence, or speeding in a construction zone.Aggravated Vehicular homicide can be charged when the death was caused recklessly, or reckless operation in a construction zone, or DUI/drugs.In all of these cases the accident must be the result of a moving offense. If the illegal thing that the person is doing is not a moving offense and/or does not contribute the the accident itself, then the manslaughter/homocide charges should not count. This means that a person who has no insurance will not be charged with VM, VH or AVH in an accident on simply because they had no insurance. Any charge of VM, VH or AVH would have to be based on some traffic offense that caused the accident. Having no insurance (or no license, or invalid tags etc) does not *cause* an accident.Having no license IS an aggravating factor when deciding the punishment. AVH may be a Felony 3 for a driver with a license, but it could be bumped to a Felony 2 if the driver has no license or was suspended etc. Just like having no insurance is a big factor after a collision. (you can lose your license until you have paid off all the damages)http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2903.06 Edited July 20, 2011 by Scruit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 You know I consider myself a safe driver/rider. But to think that I could make a mistake in traffic, which I am sure everyone has done here, and by some freak possibility I happen to hit a rider that dies b/c he decided not to protect himself as much as he can, scares me. So are you saying I could go to prison for homicide if the person dies instead of invol manslaughter, or even a much lesser charge if the guy "only' gets injured because he chose to be smart and protect himself?there is a difference between an honest mistake/accident and getting behind the wheel drunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 This is exactly why I am all for a helmet law! While I feel extremely sorry for the family of the guy who died, I think it is not right that the driver of the vehicle is charged with vehicular homicide! I do agree with the charges of the DUI. After all the riders decision to not wear a helmet probably contributed to him passing away due to severe headtrauma. So ultimately this changed the charge from assault (or whatever it would have been had he got hurt if he had worn a helmet) to homicide. http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/daytoncourts/entries/2011/07/19/woman_who_struck_motorcyclist.htmlI just think that we all have the responsibility to protect ourselves. Just my opinion.If you are DUI and cause an accident that kills someone then you get Aggravated Vehicular Homicide. Felony 3 or Felony 2.If the victim survives but is injured then you get Aggravated Vehicular Assault. Felony 3 or Felony 2.The charges are pretty much identical and the punishments are too. The fact the the rider died only changes the section number that the person is charged under from ORC 2903.06 to 2903.08. The driver is in just as much trouble.Also requiring helmet so that drivers who crash into us are spared a Homocide charge is totally the wrong reason to require helmets... In fact, requiring safety gear (or else you lose the protections that are afford to helmeted riders under criminal and civil law) is a slippery slope. What's next? Well, now you MUST wear an armored jacket, leg protection, ankle braces, airbag suit, hydraulic exo-skelton etc. Blaming the motorcyclst for being vulnerable to a car is the same kind of thinking that has women in other countries wearing canvas tarps and crap like that - lest they inflame the passions of men. No woman should be told to cover themselves up purely because some men can't control themselves. Similarly, no motorcyclist should be told to cover themselves up purely because some cagers can't drive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FZRMatt Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) I understand what you are saying. I guess what I am looking at, is the severity could have been prevented. - Yes, if she would have not been drinking, this probably would not have happened. - Yes, if he would have worn a helmet, he probably would not be dead and it would not be homicide.If everybody would take responsibility for their lifes, all of this could be prevented. I don't get why there is a seatbelt law, but not a helmet law. It makes NO sense to me. They are both meant to prevent the severity of injuries in case of an accident!The accident was survivable without a helmet (wife survived without one), so his choice not to wear one has very limited impact. My guess is that he died from massive trauma which was a result of being struck by the car. So, had shed not been impaired on the road, the collision between her vehicle and his more than likely never would have happened and he would probably still be alive. She CHOSE to get drunk, she CHOSE to get behind the wheel, and she killed someone as a direct result of her poor choices.I actually wrote a paper in college advocating for the death penalty for intoxicated drivers that kill people while driving. They knew they were going to drink when they went out, so they should haven taken appropriate measures to keep everyone safe. If they didn't know they were going to drink, they surely knew that they drove. The culpible mental state is knowingly. In my opinion, she knew exactly what she was doing from the time she left her home until the minute she chose to get in her car to leave the bar. She knew what she was doing, and she absolutely should have been charged and convicted! Edited July 20, 2011 by FZRMatt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazerlady Posted July 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Awesome input! Thanks on the details of the law. Wow, a college paper on the death penalty on drunk driver, that would definitely be an interesting read. I feel like my views on this got shifted a bit through other ppls knowledge of the law and their opinions. I knew I would find ppl that could entertain a discussion.And btw I KNOW this forum is mostly Assholes, but contrary to what someone said here i can live with their comments and ignore them... I enjoy this kind of crap, b/c I grew up in a different country and my views are a LOT different than most americans... so there is always food for discussions!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Translation: Yankees are awesomesauce. If maybe a little socially awkward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 I enjoy this kind of crap, b/c I grew up in a different country and my views are a LOT different than most americans... so there is always food for discussions!!!Which country? I'm originally from England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazerlady Posted July 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Scruit, what does that map under your signature mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Scruit, what does that map under your signature mean?It represents the states and provicnes I have been to on the bike. You can create your own... http://www.epgsoft.com/VisitedStatesMap/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazerlady Posted July 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 neat...well I could impress with the countries and states I have been to period, but I have not been many places with the bike... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 neat...well I could impress with the countries and states I have been to period, but I have not been many places with the bike...Actually, I've been wondering how a case like this would be handled in other countries. From what I know, in Japan such a case would have very serious results. Probably life in prison, for lack of a death penalty. Drunk driving with injuries to another is very serious there. What happens in Germany? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 In the UK a fatal accident caused by drink-driving will get you 4-7 years in jail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazerlady Posted July 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 I have to research it, but the sentences are not very high in Germany for murder etc. Especially when parents kill their child. I will look up some cases... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazerlady Posted July 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Here is one:In Augsburg a drunk driver with 1.78 promille (german is a different measuring unit) would be 0.178 % here in the US, caused an accident that killed an elderly couple as his car hit theirs and they were pushed under an 18 wheeler. He got sentenced for negligent manslaughter and got 16 months in prison, and 30 months revoked license. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 I have to research it, but the sentences are not very high in Germany for murder etc. Especially when parents kill their child. ...Not very high here either. Google "Casey Anthony" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazerlady Posted July 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 § 229 StGB Fahrlässige KörperverletzungWer durch Fahrlässigkeit die Körperverletzung einer anderen Person verursacht, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft. Translation: He, who causes bodily injury to another person because of negligence will be sentenced to Prison up to 3 yrs or monetary penalty. § 222 StGB Fahrlässige Tötung Wer durch Fahrlässigkeit den Tod eines Menschen verursacht, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu fünf Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft.He, who causes death of a person because of negligence will be sentenced to a prison up to 5 yrs or monetary penalty. If it is a first time offense the offender can get probation, but if alcohol is involved it will most likely be a jail sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazerlady Posted July 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Scruit, I followed the case and I was so upset about the verdict....hence why I mention that little smart remark in one of my earlier posts.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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