Issue 2 debate on NBC 4- NOW

[Scruit]

building an empire by throwing money at it is rarely a good answer.

Denying it funding and seeing if it fails isn't good either.

Instead we audit the school to make sure it's working efficiently.

[drc32-0]

Thanks to everyone who voted NO to stop this one sided politically motivated bill.

I would like to think that Kasich got the message and will now get to work on a more equitable funding bill,but I'm not holding my breath.

Hey Kasich...how's it feel to get run over by that bus you were talking about?

Edited November 9, 2011 by drc32-0

[Bad324]

Thanks to everyone who voted NO to stop this one sided politically motivated bill.

I would like to think that Kasich got the message and will now get to work on a more equitable funding bill,but I'm not holding my breath.

Hey Kasich...how's it feel to get run over by that bus you were talking about?

I like Kasich but am ok that this failed simply because the compassionate side of me saw how it would affect friends and family beyond what was claimed. Its also because its been rumored there is a plan B that actually would appease more people on both sides of the issue

[Jst2fst]

I wanna see what they have in the works for a plan b.

[Pokey]

Bring on plan B!!!!!!!

[Sixgun]

Thanks to everyone who voted NO to stop this one sided politically motivated bill.

I would like to think that Kasich got the message and will now get to work on a more equitable funding bill,but I'm not holding my breath.

Hey Kasich...how's it feel to get run over by that bus you were talking about?

Just some random thoughts:

Did you see any income taxes or levies pass for gas in the bus in your neighborhood?

An example: I'm sure no Union employee in Westerville, Ohio voted againest the school levy...which failed and besides programs, 175 union jobs will be cut. Must have been bloated non needed programs. Don't worry the Gym teacher with senority can teach AP Geometry...Those teachers don't work much and they get summers off. Heck with masters degrees they can get real American hard working middle class jobs...

Are the Unions going to spend $24 million fighting for more taxes? The latest now is making Ohio a right to work state. I think Union dues will have to increase...

Wonder who's driving the bus with the wowfully underfunded pensions in it...

No easy answers...pay me now:( or pay me later.

[drc32-0]

The bus I'm speaking about is when Kasich said,"Either get on the bus or get run over by the bus."He said this when he was originally pushing through SB5.It was his arrogant way of saying he wasn't going to negotiate.

I'm not really following your bus comments in your post.

I still stand by my previous posts that a funding bill must be more equitable.There is plenty of fat to cut away from the management side of the equation.Go back a few posts and I gave just a few suggestions that could generate hundreds of millions of dollars without one lay-off.With veterans day coming tommorow here's another suggestion that could save millions and honor some vets...only give payed veterans day off to state workers that served and were honorably discharged.Those who never served work just like any other day or they can take the day off without pay.It would show respect to vets instead of just giving everyone a day off with pay.

I'm sure there are hundreds of ways to cut away at our spending instead of just singling out union workers and hammering them.How does a state legislators pension and benifits compare to a teacher or police officer?Personally I could do with out a good portion of legislators and their staffs,but we need teachers and police officers.

Edited November 10, 2011 by drc32-0

[Disclaimer]

I don't need teachers and police officers.

I do...

FOR ME TO POOP ON!

[Sniper_308]

I don't need teachers and police officers.

Is this the 5 O'Clock Free Crack Giveaway?

[Sixgun]

How would you take away holidays (Veterans day) that are typically in Union contracts? They are typically bargained for.

[kawi kid]

We celebrate other days that we don't get off work for. I'm fully capable of being grateful for what our veterans have done to preserve the rights of this great country from behind the wheel of my semi. So I'm all for less paid holidays for state workers.

[Scruit]

How would you take away holidays (Veterans day) that are typically in Union contracts? They are typically bargained for.

I don't think they're bargained-for for public workers - they are federal holidays. I used to work for a bank, was not part of any union and still got MLK and Veteran's day. Banks follow fed holidays too.

[Pain636]

I love how the ill informed like to chime in with their two-cents, and rag on State Unions when the have no friggin clue what has been going on. I myself am glad to see it got voted down. And for all the ones who think they know whats going on, here are a few facts for you.

#1 I've been a Corrections Officer for 8 years now. And per my contract I was to be toped out in pay after 5 years, that pay being $20.57 per hour. Yet here I am 8 years in and still 2 steps from that pay range.

#2 I pay 15% for my Health care, and its shitty healthcare I don't get to choose.

#3 I pay 12% into my retirement.

#4 Last year I gave up a weeks worth of pay to "help" balance the budget for the state.

#5 I haven't even seen so much as a cost of living raise in 4 years, despite the ever growing cost of living expenses.

So you may want to check all the facts before you start to eat, and digest what these idiotic politicians are feeding you. Unless that is you enjoy being lied to, manipulated. and controlled to the benefit of all those that ruined the economy to begin with.

[kawi kid]

Anyone working in the private would love to be able to bitch about that.

[Sixgun]

Honestly-How many public Union guy's first thought was..."damn that guys Union sucks!"? So were drafted out of High school into that carreer?

I'm not familar with the London facility, but how many 16's can you get if you want them like the folks in Chillichothe?

Maybe your Union should run some "We'll let all the bad people out jail" Ads.

What's the retirement based on, high 1, high 3, or base? Most people now days have only what they save and SS (if that's around).

Does your health care have a $12,000 yearly deductable before it does anything?

All a matter of perspective...I am married to a public employee, and hope she can collect on promises....

[ohiomike]

Worry not folks! The ones behind the defeated bill have another brainstorm. Ohio becoming a right-to-work state.

If they cannot break unions one way, well here's another try.

Activists start effort to make Ohio right-to-work state

"The amendment, to be titled the “Workplace Freedom Amendment,” comes from individuals who crafted and placed Ohio’s health-care amendment that passed overwhelmingly through Issue 3. But Ohioans just held a referendum on public employee collective bargaining and union rules, and the state’s current system was upheld when Issue 2 was crushed 61 percent to 39 percent."

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2011/11/10/right-to-work-amendment-planned-ohio-activists.html

The Wage Penalty of "Right-to-Work" Laws

"An analysis along gender lines reveals similar trends. On average, men in RTW states earn 7.8% less than their counterparts in non-RTW states; women in RTW states earn 6.8% less .

Unlike previous research by Bennett (2001), we find that, even after controlling for regional costs of living, workers in right-to-work states earn less per hour. Particularly interesting is the affect on workers living in cities that are stretch across state line, placing it in both a right-to-work state and a non-RTW state. Seventeen out of 433 metropolitan areas in our sample (nearly 4%) spill over from a right-to-work state to a non-RTW state. Our analysis indicates that, in areas where a pure RTW state effect exists (i.e., no spill-over effect), the right-to-work penalty is larger. In fact, we find that living near a non-RTW state helps raise workers' wages."

http://www.usw-608.com/history.htm

So just be careful what you wish for...... you might just get it

[Scruit]

In the UK once you have worked for a year at a company you cannot be fired without just cause. If you are fired for an unfair reason then you can claim back pay and even demand your job back (dunno why anyone would want that job back though).

Same rules apply as here... Layoffs are ok, but no firing based upon gender/race/age etc. Violence/Gross misconduct IS a valid reason to fire someone etc, but insubordination requires progressive discipline. So any reason that a legitimate company woudl fire you for woudl be fair game in the UK - but you can't be fired because you get a new boss who hates the sports team you support.

So once you have a job and have been there for a year, keep your nose clean and the job is yours for life if you want it. (assuming no layoffs)

[Sixgun]

OhioMike, One should also compare unemployment rates in the RTW vs. the Non. The cost of living (COA) can also be a double edge sword. If you move to where the jobs are...it drives prices up (supply and demand), raising the COA of the state or region. Wages increase to retain and recruit good workers.

You can see the good and bad in Vegas compared to say Charlotte NC.

[drc32-0]

I saw that ""right to work story in the dispatch...about two pages later I saw an article on Birmingham Alabama filing for bankrupcy.It seems to be working just great down there.Doesn't Texas led the nation in poverty?

I also noticed one of the supporters was a leader of ABC,the non-union bosses that hire illegal immigrants.

All of you guys complaining about what union workers have really ought to try working union.I've worked both and union is FAR better.From your posts it sure doesn't seem like non-union is working to good for you.You guys are just proving that working hard for a non-union boss will led to just compensation doesn't work.

Kawi Kid...I'm in the private sector and my pay package is better than that.And I'm out here in the boonies.If you want that kind of pay do some research and get a union job.We even train you,no astronomical college debt.It's out there to be had,just quit listening to lying politicians and non-union bosses.Think about it...these people want you to accept less so there will be more profit for them,that's what it's all about.Old fashioned greed.I'm a union electrician and we compete with the non-union.They pay most of their employees far less than we do,but yet they bid real close to our bids...so where do you think all that money that doesn't go to the employees goes to?

Sixgun...how would we take away payed veterans day?Through negotiations.It's give and take.If they could cut into the bloated pay packages of the managment side(politicians and staffs) they might be willing to accept the vet day deal.Public union employees have already made concessions,even before SB5,name one thing that politicians have sacrificed? Unions,both public and private,have quite a few vets in their memberships.In our job trailer today,out of fifteen people we had two Marines,two Air Force,one Navy and two Army vets.I don't think you'll find that kind of veteran partcipation from the management side of public workers.

[Cdubyah]

nevermind

Edited November 12, 2011 by Cdubyah

[Scruit]

There is no Database Administrators Union.

[kawi kid]

I shouldn't have said anyone, I should have said most. And issue two had nothing to do with private sector union jobs so I don't understand how you are comparing your union and union pay to the public sector union. You work for a company that produces something for profit. The public sector is paid with tax money and produces very little to nothing.

[ohiomike]

OhioMike, One should also compare unemployment rates in the RTW vs. the Non. The cost of living (COA) can also be a double edge sword. If you move to where the jobs are...it drives prices up (supply and demand), raising the COA of the state or region. Wages increase to retain and recruit good workers.

You can see the good and bad in Vegas compared to say Charlotte NC.

Good points. Consider this tho-when (maybe it has happened) was the last time a company cut its overhead and then cut what it charges out? How many companies have left the country, because they could not afford the overhead here and yet what they charge for their jeans, or cars, remains the same, or still increases? So the col remains the same while wages are now falling behind, and with lower wages....yep, the gap widens.

My wifes cousin has been a nurse for long time now. At one time she worked in a right to work state. She said her wages were about 20% lower than had she been working in a state without rtw laws. How did she know? She did her homework, and eventually moved to one of those states. Funny she claimed the col was very nearly the same, so she was money ahead. This was about 4 yrs back.

[drc32-0]

I shouldn't have said anyone, I should have said most. And issue two had nothing to do with private sector union jobs so I don't understand how you are comparing your union and union pay to the public sector union. You work for a company that produces something for profit. The public sector is paid with tax money and produces very little to nothing.

I was just telling you that you can do better in the private sector than the stated wage package.You made it sound like people in the private sector don't make those wages...plenty do.We just don't buy the non-union bosses lies.It's there if you're willing to go get it.

The ones that don't produce anything in the public sector is the management,that's where we need to cut.Again,name one sacrifice public management has made?Hell,name one concession public management has made in the last thirty years?If you think public union employees have great benifits,take a look at your local school superintendent's bennies.He/she is the one who signed those contracts.He/she is the one who is supposed to be representing you.You're blaming the wrong people.

[Pokey]

i was just telling you that you can do better in the private sector than the stated wage package.you made it sound like people in the private sector don't make those wages...plenty do.we just don't buy the non-union bosses lies.it's there if you're willing to go get it.

The ones that don't produce anything in the public sector is the management,that's where we need to cut.again,name one sacrifice public management has made?hell,name one concession public management has made in the last thirty years?if you think public union employees have great benifits,take a look at your local school superintendent's bennies.he/she is the one who signed those contracts.he/she is the one who is supposed to be representing you.you're blaming the wrong people.

word..........