Lettuce discuss motersycle Batteries

[ReconRat]

I'm thinking that the words "battery tender" are being used generically for a group of charging devices that do not limit the total charge. In other words, chargers that don't shut down when they are about to damage the battery.

That much is true. If you built a simple charging circuit without limits, it would have to be watched so it wouldn't overcharge.

If you buy a decent charger that has a built in limit sensor, that problem is avoided.

The cheapest motorcycle battery charger sold by Deltran Battery Tender is the Junior 12v. The one with a basic wall wart and output wires to big alligator clips. It is capable of preventing an overcharged battery. And is safe for all batteries: acid, gel, AGM, and lithium. I'll guess that most good brand cheap chargers are the same. (Except fake/bogus products made in certain unnamed countries. Good luck with that.)

Perfect for all lead-acid, flooded or sealed maintenance free batteries (AGM and gel cell).

Complete 4-step charging program (Initialization, Bulk Charge, Absorption Mode, Float Mode).

Automatically switches to float / maintenance voltage after fully charging the battery.

If the battery voltage drops too far under load, full charger output power resumes.

Solid state two color LED indicates stage of charger.

Spark proof.

Reverse polarity protected.

12' output cord.

5 year warranty

http://batterytender.com/motorcycle/battery-tender-junior-12v-at-0-75a.html

Yes, I use a Battery Tender Junior 12v. I've even used dumb car chargers on 2amp and monitored them with VOM so they wouldn't overcharge. Probably not a good idea. Again... my bike batteries are 10 years old and 5 years old and still work.

[serpentracer]

I'm thinking that the words "battery tender" are being used generically for a group of charging devices that do not limit the total charge. In other words, chargers that don't shut down when they are about to damage the battery.

That much is true. If you built a simple charging circuit without limits, it would have to be watched so it wouldn't overcharge.

If you buy a decent charger that has a built in limit sensor, that problem is avoided.

The cheapest motorcycle battery charger sold by Deltran Battery Tender is the Junior 12v. The one with a basic wall wart and output wires to big alligator clips. It is capable of preventing an overcharged battery. And is safe for all batteries: acid, gel, AGM, and lithium. I'll guess that most good brand cheap chargers are the same. (Except fake/bogus products made in certain unnamed countries. Good luck with that.)

http://batterytender.com/motorcycle/battery-tender-junior-12v-at-0-75a.html

Yes, I use a Battery Tender Junior 12v. I've even used dumb car chargers on 2amp and monitored them with VOM so they wouldn't overcharge. Probably not a good idea. Again... my bike batteries are 10 years old and 5 years old and still work.

my brother bought a high end battery charger for his camera and telescope stuff and it will not charge by battery on either bike because it says it's full.

I haven't started my bike since some time in october.

I still think battery tenders ruin batteries. I know so many guys that have them and are constantly buying a new battery every few years.

like I said before, I don't do shit to mine and i've never had to buy one for my bikes since 2003.

[ReconRat]

my brother bought a high end battery charger for his camera and telescope stuff and it will not charge by battery on either bike because it says it's full.

I haven't started my bike since some time in october.

I still think battery tenders ruin batteries. I know so many guys that have them and are constantly buying a new battery every few years.

like I said before, I don't do shit to mine and i've never had to buy one for my bikes since 2003.

I've done it that way also, for the Winter. But I try to check the voltage occasionally to make sure the voltage doesn't go too low and damage the battery.

edit: I am remembering that I've had a few car batteries that didn't last a year. There are bad batteries for sale. It's hard to tell which ones they are.

[serpentracer]

I've done it that way also, for the Winter. But I try to check the voltage occasionally to make sure the voltage doesn't go too low and damage the battery.

edit: I am remembering that I've had a few car batteries that didn't last a year. There are bad batteries for sale. It's hard to tell which ones they are.

I think the problem is when people leave them hooked up to a tender and that's how it sits for months on end. I don't think the charger stops when it really needs to and ultimately over charges the battery. either that or it's causing them to sulfate.

like I said if this computer controlled charger wont charge my battery then I suspect most people's batteries shouldn't need a charge either. I'd like to try a tender on mine to see if it does charge it right now. that would mean it in fact over charges batteries.

yuasa's own site says you only need to charge a battery if kept in climates below 60 once a month. and twice a month if kept above 60.

I would take that is a 30-40 min charge once a month for me and that's all it needs.

Edited February 16, 2012 by serpentracer

[max power]

So, um, ok. I bought an OEM Yuasa @ the Pony. It was reasonably priced and is working well.

It is floating on a Battery Tender Jr.

Edited February 16, 2012 by max power

[THE GRUNDISH]

I usually plug in the tender right away after I ride my quad and it quite often goes right to "green" which tells me 2 things quickly 1: my charging system on my quad is doing well, and 2: The battery is probably doing fine also. lol

And when I say tender I do refer to the Deltran Battery Tender JR which plugs into the wall.

[mango_sv]

I bought my last AGM Battery at Meijer's. Had it in stock for $65. They usually have a shelf full of bike batteries. Stock battery died after 3 yrs, next one after 1 year (stator fried and toasted itself and the battery). Been on this battery almost a year now and still going strong.

[Gump]

I trickle charge mine with cheese and pennies

[ped]

Im def not complaining about my batteries, when I dont keep them on a tender they will not start in the spring. I keep them on during the winter and it works perfectly and any time they sit for longer than a week I keep them on. So I am going to continue using my tenders on all my batteries.

You just said you've been selling them for 10 years. So when exactly is the last time you didn't use a tender? If your bike isn't starting in the spring did it ever occur to you that something is wrong with your electrical system? Did you have a flooded cell battery the last time you went without a tender?

If it's been 10 years like you imply then you probably did. Those type of batteries need a tender. But we're not talking about those here, we're talking of sealed batteries.

lol first time i have heard someone say something bad about a tender..... seriously and I have sold them for almost 10yrs......

No one is saying anything bad about tenders. What's being said is that AGM's are very distinct from old style FLA's that haven't been used in bikes for over ten years. You're not getting the WHY you don't need to use or should not use tenders on modern batteries.

Again it's very basic.

-Flooded cells self-discharge at about 15% per month. Sealed batteries self-discharge about 1-3% per month. A battery tender is not needed.

-If they boiled electrolyte they cannot be replenished with distilled water. They're sealed. Flooded batteries MUST gas to reach full charge. They gas under float charging. That is fine because you merely add water every year or two. AGM's cannot have water added so they are extremely sensitive to over-charging.

AGM's are what is termed "valve regulated." They don't gas unless they are extremely over-charged. Once they start to gas, usually at 5psi, they are done for because they cannot be opened and replenished. That is what is happening when all these people's batteries fail in a year or two. They're not short-circuting. We know this because they will have a 12.7v+ reading but will not crank the bike. If they are shorted internally they would read 10.5v. This isn't the case. Just ask the next time a thread is started about a dead battery.

You're paying high dollar for these batteries because they are "maintenance free."

http://www.progressivedyn.com/battery_basics.html I am not saying all your comments are wrong but . Not quite sure were you got all your info but I think you may want to read up a little on batteries. http://www.yuasabatteries.com/videos.php

You just posted a link to FLA's. That is not what you have in your bike. It's the primary point here. You have sealed AGM in you bike.

Not only did you prove you're totally out of you league here, but your link stated exactly what I just said. Flooded cell's lose 4% charge per week....that's why they need a tender. Your batteries lose about 1-3% per month or about 10-15X less.

Here are some videos that may help also. BTW my sealed yuasa is going on 11years old and is just showing signs of giving up.It lives on a Battery Tender all winter and 90% of the rest of the time.

Exactly why are you putting it on a float charger? What's the point in that? Seriously I want you to explain to me exactly your reasoning of putting it on a tender.

Edited February 16, 2012 by ped

[ped]

I'm thinking that the words "battery tender" are being used generically for a group of charging devices that do not limit the total charge. In other words, chargers that don't shut down when they are about to damage the battery.

That much is true. If you built a simple charging circuit without limits, it would have to be watched so it wouldn't overcharge.

If you buy a decent charger that has a built in limit sensor, that problem is avoided.

The cheapest motorcycle battery charger sold by Deltran Battery Tender is the Junior 12v. The one with a basic wall wart and output wires to big alligator clips. It is capable of preventing an overcharged battery. And is safe for all batteries: acid, gel, AGM, and lithium. I'll guess that most good brand cheap chargers are the same. (Except fake/bogus products made in certain unnamed countries. Good luck with that.)

http://batterytender.com/motorcycle/battery-tender-junior-12v-at-0-75a.html

Yes, I use a Battery Tender Junior 12v. I've even used dumb car chargers on 2amp and monitored them with VOM so they wouldn't overcharge. Probably not a good idea. Again... my bike batteries are 10 years old and 5 years old and still work.

What you're not understanding about that is the voltage monitoring is to switch between absorbtion and float voltage thru the feedback loop. It will always put out at least 13.2v (float) continuously. That's what a float charge means, a constant charge. That is where the problem comes in with AGM batteries.

They don't lose their voltage like a flooded cell does. So the microprocessor in that unit never is utilized because all it does is switch between absorbtion, which is when the battery gets below a set voltage, say 12.55v, and float. The AGM will never need absorbtion (or float for that matter). Your bikes battery will lose the same charge in 12-14 months as a FLA will in one month. So this thing just sits there putting in a constant 13.2v charge for months on end to a battery that is not self-discharging. Your battery not only doesn't need it, but is very sensitive and easily damaged by over-charging because they're sealed.

Not only all of that, but AGM's have much less internal resistance further exacerbating the issue.

So what happens? Well you get the vast majority of people claiming 1-3 years real world lifespan on a battery that should at least be going 8-10 years.

You don't find it odd so many peoples batteries are dying prematurely?

http://www.batteryspec.com/html/ChargingInformation.html

Edited February 16, 2012 by ped

[Al Z. Heimer]

No. Sitting kills lead acid batteries not sealed ones. Overcharging with a battery tender kills sealed batteries. That's why everyone is only getting a few years from them. Sealed batteries can sit a LONG time and not self-discharge. That's why they make good UPS batteries. Their rate of discharge is about 10x less than traditional batteries.

On the other hand you will sulfate them if you try to charge them too much like with a battery tender. It assumes you're charging a lead acid battery that 1. needs a higher float charge voltage, and 2. loses 15% capacity monthly.

A traditional flooded battery is not harmed by over-charging. It merely gasses electrolyte. A gel cell or AGM cannot do that.

It kills me to see every spring 20 threads started about a dead battery that is "only a year old and kept on a tender all winter....I don't know what happened to it'

Here's a hint, throw a voltmeter on you AGM and note is stays at 12.7v-12.8v for 18 months... especially in the cold.

So stop charging the damn things, you're destroying them. That's why yours didn't last. Premature failure due to sulfation. 6 years isn't something to brag about...

Okay the reason I posted links was for correct information. It does not matter to me as I have done quite well sir with motorcycle batteries in the last 43 years. What matters is that someone reads wrong info and thinks that it is correct. Let's go over your post---sitting kills. You are wrong that it does not kill a sealed battery. If the voltage is allowed to drop below 11.5 volts it could possible ruin the battery. 11.5 volts is considered overdischarged which requires a higher(up to 20)voltage charger to attempt bringing it back. I capitlized Battery Tender meaning brand name,sorry should have included Deltran. I should also point out that there are 2 versions--the B-tender and B-tender plus. The later is designed for lead acid and agm batteries. The first only lead acid.It does not overcharge. Discharge rate fully charged in a month-1/3 on lead acid and 10% agm. A battery does not sulfate by charging but by discharging.The longer the discharge the more sulfation. Charging puts the sulfates back in to the electrolyte. Fact-both can be overcharged resulting in warped plates,shorting out and exploding. Gassing is a trait of lead acid batteries. Agm batteries don't gas because they can't? They don't gas by design. The negative plate never becomes fully charged thus no hydrogen gas so no venting needed. The positive plate still puts out oxygen but goes thru a reaction turning it back into water. Stop charging your battery? Yes when it is fully charged with a battery charger. If a proper maintainer is used there should not be a problem. Let's see 12.7 volts for 18 months? My source says a loss of 10% per month. You are only 1.2 volts away from an overdischarge condition. I'm not gonna do the math. I don't care really. Mine don't sit that long and if they did they would be on a maintainer approved for AGM batteries. Most batteries do not last because they are not of OEM quality,wrong type or most importanly,not properly put into service.

[Al Z. Heimer]

You just posted a link to FLA's. That is not what you have in your bike. It's the primary point here. You have sealed AGM in you bike. <<<< Your quote. I have both. The link has info that can and does pertain to both types. I guess you did not bother reading it or did not comprehend it's content. I agree with your loss statement. It is the other BS that is ah........ wrong. Next is---Exactly why are you putting it on a float charger? What's the point in that? Seriously I want you to explain to me exactly your reasoning of putting it on a tender. I keep my batteries on a tender because---1) I don't want to disconnect the battery. You know parastic drain,clock ect. which will accelerate discharge. 2) I don't want get the VOM out to check it's state of charge all the time. 3) Suddenly go dead for some reason,freeze-thaw and puke nasty all over. 4) I like the pretty little lights. 5) The most important reason........It works. And about the league thing---you are correct because I don't need a league. I run on facts. Posting here that you cannot overcharge a lead acid battery is was just plain stupid on your part. Remember the Hindenburg? Hydrogen is the gas comming out of a charging battery. Let it boil to the point of exposing the plates and then they warp and short out------BOOM. I won't come to that party. One more thing? Did you read the captions on your link? Maybe you should. Someday we should chat on the merrits of using Marvel Mystery Oil and Sta-Bil.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Al Z. Heimer

[ama146]

wait, so if i leave a AGM battery on a battery tender (jr version that has the unit plug into the wall intself), it will overcharge it and fuck it up? its better to just let it sit?

[RSparky]

They both sound like they know what they're saying. But nobody else can understand because all that actually hits the keyboard is their tears and a bunch of wine.