Experience w/ Midwest Cafe Racing Association

[blue03636]

15's it was crazy cold

[rusty]

I'm not being mean, dude... I am just saying that I don't know how you are going to get credit for a race with WERA. They require you to have raced at least two official races in a recognized series. The sportsman race is not licensed racers and therefore, not the same as if you went to WERA and ran two events races...

If by "we will probably race the same race", you must mean the MTT and Stars HW races at Vintage weekend? You might want to check and verify that you will be allowed to race that race... I am not sure that provisional racers are allowed at that event..

MCRA have nothing to do with Wera.i still need finish 2 weekends with Wera to get amateur license.im talking about the Vtwin races at vintage days.i can race there ,already sign up but I need start from back of the grid.

[TwiztedRabbit]

yeah, it was crazy the david and ricky race was nuts. David was saying how he was sliding all over the place..i remember the Cow-asaki..from in the mock race/race school really cool dude. i tried to pace him a bit but that wasnt really happening. the best i ran was right about the 1:23-24's in the mock race(unverified) i talked to the guy in front of me with the lap timer whos ass i was on for 2 laps before the red flag.

honestly. the first day was just shitty un organized and so on.. we had dudes in the race school passing on a waving yellow/ had novices stuffin it in the inside on turns after you turn in.(because we were paying attention and not passing except the straights so your stuck behind others)

oh did i meantion that after "passing" the race school they just said thanks... Kaler asked them about a cert. or a card. you know something saying we passed. the dudes answer was.. BUT THAT COSTS MONEY..... Kaler replied so how do you all know we passed for other races.. the guy then replied well then i should prob let them know who didnt pass shouldnt i...

OMFG....

Sunday was better weather prevailed right before lunch.. traffic sucked in Int. but it was nice to pick through at times.. OH YEAH Tommy from Indy Ducati counte 63 riders in Int.... yeah about that... LOL

anyways end rant. i have so much more but damnit im tired

[rusty]

They don't give you guys any certificate you did race school ?

[blue03636]

Yea dude, getting nothing for finishing the school is a total joke. Not to mention how they treated the ones that failed the school. I would have went off on someone.

[redkow97]

Who is Jeff?

My friend Jeff won the Sportsman race. He posted a picture of the plaque on facebook on Saturday evening. I didn't know he was going to be there until I saw it.

I texted him a bit ago, and he was the guy on the "ZX-10" turning 17's in the mock race.

It's a ZX-6, and I know he's gone considerably faster than :17's at Putnam over the last couple seasons.

I wish every racing org had a "test-out" option for the riding portion of the race school. Every time I've ever attended or witnessed a race school, there is a clear divide between the people who are there to be coached, and people who are quite proficient on track, but just need the class to learn the flags and starting procedures to get their license. There's no reason Jeff shouldn't have been out in Advanced, and I understand why people were pissed if he was out in N. That said, fast guys aren't above the rules, and I'd be surprised if he wasn't following them.

But sticking "A" riders on track with "N" or even "I" riders is putting everyone at risk and/or wasting their time. Jeff used to control ride with NESBA at that track... I'm not suggesting that he couldn't learn anything from the race school instructors, but I am betting there were a lot of other people in the school who needed their attention more than him.

Jeff mentioned that the MCRA people said there was a problem with their electronic registration system not cutting off registrants, and that's how they over-booked. Did anyone else hear that?

If that actually happened I would think it would be appropriate to 1) notice pretty early on, and 2) notify the participants by email to give them the option of canceling, if not INSISTING that the last X number of people to register be issued refunds for safety reasons.

65 people i "I" group? I can't imagine any more than 40 being safe, and even that might be pushing it. Plus this early in the season, everyone's knocking off cobwebs.

[Dubguy85]

MCRA ran a horrible event.

That is all..

Indy Ducati days are NOTHING like that... Things will change for the next September event.. TRUST ME on that one!

[blue03636]

Dub, I felt so bad for Indy duc being associated with that and having no control over the day.

[madcat6183]

Okay rant on; MCR is a joke, worst organization I've ever seen/run with. I want to point out before I go into details because this will be lengthy, that Indy Ducati had NOTHING to do with this event being terrible. Actually neither did Putnam themselves, just MCR.

I don't even know where to start, maybe with when the Test the Track people were running at like 110 on the front straight at 930am in 35deg temps only to have the older guy dump it in the bus stop, AFTER he dropped the bike on himself in the pits? Felt bad for the dude, but that whole thing was terrible, there was blatent mud/debris in the bus stop and nothing was done, no pushbrooms, just sat there all AM. I think at lunch someone b*tched enough to get it cleaned, I actually saw a chunck of pavement in the mix too. Same thing Sunday, dude wadded it up in the test the track, I can't believe MCR is stupid enough to have done that again after Saturday but whatever, they suck.

Let's go to the size of event, I was told by Indy Ducati as a warning there were over 200 people for all 4 classes(test the track 4th), seriously? 200? Sunday there were 62 people in Int. I know becaush they warned me of that too. So a huge thanks to Tommy with Indy Ducati for that too.

Like stated, I hope that they made enough $$ off us because I gurantee NO ONE will ever run with you again from our group of 10+ people. Granted thats only a small chunk of the $$ you took from us.

I loved that 4 people, including myself wadded it coming out of hot pit because of the seeping water right in the path they pointed you to after forcing me to wait and then walk it around a novice rider who was lined up. Not just letting me blend like the line was for. AFTER 4 people went do they thought, oh wait, let's put cones here and have them go around the seeping water.

Oh wait, what was this about when the kid who wadded it up 1st in Race School pulling out of the pits was told when he went to class? Something that went like this I heard.... "Give me an F, for FAIL", right in front of the whole class, like all calling him out. Are you kidding me? You're running race school in novice, THEN you do that? I would have assaulted the guy for sure, like no questions asked, the cops would have taken me out of there. And Im NOT violent at all, Im a lover not a fighter

Oh wait, the black flagged session for dude who blew his motor THEN they didnt even red flag the session, instead had 2 guys go down in that turn, with 1 almost getting T boned by a CR, who did everything he could to not kill him. And yes, that is from HIS own words, he still hit Craig in the hand, but thank God, that Craig is still with us, because that could have ended very bad. Wait it still did, but better than could have.

Luckily the race Saturday at Lunch was the best I've ever seen on 2 wheels in person, BUT that didn't matter, at that point, we all wanted our $$ back and to just go to the bar and nurse our bumps and bruises.

Sunday was fine, still 62 people in Int. so not a single clear lap, but whatever. The beacon wasn't working right so we all stopped even running lap timers, but whatever, switched tires, love them, ran better but again, total cluster screw.

I am sure there is more I will add, but I hit my head hard and have an ongoing headache so whatever.

I will say that MCR could pay me for gas, tires, and hotels for the weekend at any track, ANY, and I would not ride with them again.

[rubbersidedown]

Dude, under 25s is A pace.

How many times have I read in an OR forum where a less experienced rider is flogged about the head and shoulders unmercifully about lap times vs. bump? The same should apply to an "A" bump. The rider needs to show control, ability to pass and be passed, etc. for an "A" bump. Safety for the rider and other riders in the group is #1 in reguard to bumping.

Myself and other NESBA "B" riders can turn :25 to :27 times at Putnam consistently but there is no way we are borderline for "A" in any org. We need time and experience in "I" first.

I am not directing this toward the ZX-6 rider, it sound like he has control and ability. This is strictly toward times = bump.

[standout]

will never ride with mcra again.

that is all.

[madcat6183]

Jeff mentioned that the MCRA people said there was a problem with their electronic registration system not cutting off registrants, and that's how they over-booked. Did anyone else hear that?

If that actually happened I would think it would be appropriate to 1) notice pretty early on, and 2) notify the participants by email to give them the option of canceling, if not INSISTING that the last X number of people to register be issued refunds for safety reasons.

65 people i "I" group? I can't imagine any more than 40 being safe, and even that might be pushing it. Plus this early in the season, everyone's knocking off cobwebs.

62, not 65, oh wait, that was Sunday after a ton of us crashed or just left. Luckily I had spares to run, but I know there were so many crashed etc. it was nuts.

And I'm sure they blamed their registration for the issue, I mean wouldn't anyone trying to make an excuse for overbooking by like 80 people for the event?

[blue03636]

How many times have I read in an OR forum where a less experienced rider is flogged about the head and shoulders unmercifully about lap times vs. bump? The same should apply to an "A" bump. The rider needs to show control, ability to pass and be passed, etc. for an "A" bump. Safety for the rider and other riders in the group is #1 in reguard to bumping.

Myself and other NESBA "B" riders can turn :25 to :27 times at Putnam consistently but there is no way we are borderline for "A" in any org. We need time and experience in "I" first.

I am not directing this toward the ZX-6 rider, it sound like he has control and ability. This is strictly toward times = bump.

If your doing consistent 25s at putnam you should be nowhere near novice group. Most novice racers there are high teens low 20s. If these times are based off of an actual lap timer I would be shocked.

[blue03636]

Ok, I finally had the time to sit down and post my thoughts on this weekend.

First off I would like to thank Indy ducati for helping with the weekend, I know they had no control over how the weekend went and they tried to make the weekend better.

That being said, registration was not too bad. Tech was a disaster and was unorganized, not to mention they were completely rude. The riders meeting was a joke with them making fun of some of the crashes from saturday on the sunday meeting. Saturday started off about 30 min late. The first session was a disaster with a guy spilling oil, getting black flagged and they let the session continue, I took one for the team on this one and found it for everyone. The cr behind me did what he could but still hit my hand/arm, still not sure if it was ran over or just slammed off his tire, the pics may tell the truth. They had to wait for 2 crashes in the oil to red flag the session, not to mention the 4 crashes leaving the pits before a cone was placed in the slick spot. To me this is completely unacceptable. The mcra cr riders were the worst for breaking all of the passing rules as I guess they get to do what they want and were just there for free track time. The only cr's I saw helping people were the indy ducati ones. I have been to a few crappy trackdays but this one by far takes the cake. They will never get another dime of my money. I'm not one to bitch about things and never miss a session but saturday was so bad I did a total of 10 laps with 4 being after I hit the oil. I'm not a fair weather rider and go out every session just to get a few more laps in but with the 60+ people per group it just wasn't worth it. On the test the track sessions (2 per day), which were suppose to be like a parade session (people could wear jeans), I saw everyone blasting down the straights at well over 100. This led to 2 crashed sat, 1 morning and 1 afternoon, and 1 crash sunday morning. How could an org allow people to go crazy fast with minimal gear to the point where they could crash. The mess with the race school not getting any kind of paperwork showing they passed the school is just amazing. The fact that they actually told them that it cost money and they were not getting anything just baffles me. How is another race org going to know if you have passed or even taken the school. Then to top it off they were just total dicks to the students that didn't pass in front of the entire group of students. Just pull the kid aside and tell him that he didn't pass, let him finish out the day as he did pay the money. I just didn't see anything being done that appeared professional. You would have thought this was their first ever event.

To sum this all up, if you are use to a nesba, stt, mido, or motoseries event and are thinking of trying a mcra event, I wouldn't waste your time or money. The weekend was cheap and that was definitely for a reason.

The racing was crazy good to watch but still couldn't make up for the weekend.

Big props to Andy for dealing with us for the weekend.

[madcat6183]

Good post from someone who helps with events for MS, and STT. Craig know's how to things should be run and has lots of experience.

I totally forgot I wanted to point out that Dubguys dad, Dave Kaler is awesome again. I forget who it was from here, but they posted earlier and said they had a 1st timer with them and he wasn't really getting any instruction in N as there wasn't any, and no lines etc. Mr. Kaler(he hates when I call him this so sorry), gave him a tow and worked with him, he's really just an awesome guy and still stupid fast. Actually, he and Andy are about the only 2 CR's I had that never once passed me on the inside of a turn, one other CR did going into 1 but that was because he was carrying way more speed and I didn't care at all, it was a clean pass so no biggy. The others, well that was another question. Actually Im going to toss this out there, but there is one CR who we all know from Mid O, that loves to do this there as well, and was doing it all weekend at Putnam too, just ripping inside on the turns, not a big deal to me, Im used to it, but for someone who isn't could have been bad.

[redkow97]

If your doing consistent 25s at putnam you should be nowhere near novice group. Most novice racers there are high teens low 20s. If these times are based off of an actual lap timer I would be shocked.

I guess it depends on the org, because I know I was doing :19's in "I" last time I was there. That would be a boarder line time to be in Advanced in good conditions. Based on the crowd I was there with anyway. Many of the "A" guys run in the :12-:14 range. I'm shooting for 15's if I make that MotoSeries round.

But regardless, I don't think there's any debate that the day was run poorly. Sucks that people and property were damaged. Anything anyone needs help with to be on track this weekend?

[Moto-Brian]

Red-

If you are doing 19s at Putnam, that's Advanced. Anything under :20 in my mind is Advanced for a track day. Not many guys are going to get 12s at a track day as that is only 2 seconds off full blown race pace. I am willing to bet that Ricky and Dave were in the 12s at best...

If you can pull a 15 at Putnam for the MS event, you will be at the front of the Novice guys and a great target to hit. VERY obtainable and surely what you can obtain with a little work on your end.

To give you an idea, Reuben can run 15s on a bone stock (suspension also) GSXR600 with ease at Putnam at a track day. 15s at a track day pace is really fast and doing 19s is something that puts you into A group easily.

Obviously, weather makes a difference and with the low temps, the times would have been slower than the last RRGC event for example...

[blue03636]

^true, I know nesba does have a quicker A than most orgs.

John, anyone with a vest on should be following the rules 100%, if not it just makes the org look like crap. They don't get special treatment, in fact they should be held to a higher standard.

[madcat6183]

^true, I know nesba does have a quicker A than most orgs.

John, anyone with a vest on should be following the rules 100%, if not it just makes the org look like crap. They don't get special treatment, in fact they should be held to a higher standard.

Oh totally agreed with the CR's being held to higher standards, I was not happy, but used to it.

[Dubguy85]

Red-

If you are doing 19s at Putnam, that's Advanced. Anything under :20 in my mind is Advanced for a track day. Not many guys are going to get 12s at a track day as that is only 2 seconds off full blown race pace. I am willing to bet that Ricky and Dave were in the 12s at best...

If you can pull a 15 at Putnam for the MS event, you will be at the front of the Novice guys and a great target to hit. VERY obtainable and surely what you can obtain with a little work on your end.

To give you an idea, Reuben can run 15s on a bone stock (suspension also) GSXR600 with ease at Putnam at a track day. 15s at a track day pace is really fast and doing 19s is something that puts you into A group easily.

Obviously, weather makes a difference and with the low temps, the times would have been slower than the last RRGC event for example...

Dude, Grey and Ricky were running 16's and 17's on Saturday.. It was 41 and like a rain race.

I don't know any novice racer running 15's.

[rubbersidedown]

Thanks to everyone for your assements of MCRA events. I have thought about doing an event with them this year but think that I will just stay clear.

What were you assements of Putnam facilities? Is it a $180/day facility now or is it a $155/day facility that is feeling their oats after hosting a big event?

Sounds like the paddock didn't get improved. What about the restrooms, viewing options,timing tower, etc.?

The garages are new but you have to pay extra for them anyway so it is not relavent to the price increase.

[Moto-Brian]

Good post from someone who helps with events for MS, and STT. Craig know's how to things should be run and has lots of experience.

I totally forgot I wanted to point out that Dubguys dad, Dave Kaler is awesome again. I forget who it was from here, but they posted earlier and said they had a 1st timer with them and he wasn't really getting any instruction in N as there wasn't any, and no lines etc. Mr. Kaler(he hates when I call him this so sorry), gave him a tow and worked with him, he's really just an awesome guy and still stupid fast. Actually, he and Andy are about the only 2 CR's I had that never once passed me on the inside of a turn, one other CR did going into 1 but that was because he was carrying way more speed and I didn't care at all, it was a clean pass so no biggy. The others, well that was another question. Actually Im going to toss this out there, but there is one CR who we all know from Mid O, that loves to do this there as well, and was doing it all weekend at Putnam too, just ripping inside on the turns, not a big deal to me, Im used to it, but for someone who isn't could have been bad.

Throw out a name. The issue is that if the person isn't brought up, things will never change. CR responsibilities are the riders within the group - not getting seat time and blasting guys in a way that conflicts with the rules for that group.

Now, there are always going to be situations where a CR may pass inside against the rules, but as you stated, it is usually a speed difference and they got caught out and had no other real choice... Braking like a sum beotch can cause more issues than a clean pass inside...

[Moto-Brian]

Dude, Grey and Ricky were running 16's and 17's on Saturday.. It was 41 and like a rain race.

I don't know any novice racer running 15's.

Wow... Well, there was no money on the line so, the times will be slower. My point was racers in WERA or MS that run that track will run 15s at the front. The experts are going to run more like Gene and myself were running at the front. The times Ricky and Lewis ran were probably not common from typical club guys so, you an throw away 10s...

AGAIN, that is if the weather works out. 41 and a cold track will net a lot slower times...

When MS runs there (remember, the talent pool is deeper than what MCRA is going to pull overall), my expectations will be high 15s for the lead 600 novice guys. If you look at Nelson, the front novices are in the 12s. That 2 second difference is common... At any track...

[Mykill]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLdBQUqXvQ4

Madcat your the third bike. This is the one I was telling you how you were leading a huge pack

[Moto-Brian]

Thanks to everyone for your assements of MCRA events. I have thought about doing an event with them this year but think that I will just stay clear.

What were you assements of Putnam facilities? Is it a $180/day facility now or is it a $155/day facility that is feeling their oats after hosting a big event?

Sounds like the paddock didn't get improved. What about the restrooms, viewing options,timing tower, etc.?

The garages are new but you have to pay extra for them anyway so it is not relavent to the price increase.

If you have never been to Putnam, you will asses it to be not worth the $15 cheaper than Mid-O event... The track is certainly not to par with a championship quality venue like Mid-O, Barber, Road A, etc...

BUT, the track is a blast! It is a huge corner speed track and while it looks easy to figure out, there is MUCH more speed to be had.

The facilities are actually quite good for a club track. Good and clean restrooms centrally located. The paddock is like any other club level track. The garages will add a little bit, but mostly for the car guys. Viewing is easy. Go to the guard rail and watch 2 feet from the track!!! The only place you can really get that close. I am actually amazed there hasn't been rules in place to avoid that close to the track...

As for elsewhere with kids, etc., the stands are awesome and you can see literally every turn with exception to maybe turn two.

Timing tower? Like anywhere else - above the start/finish line. Timing tower isn't an issue for track day riders... They also have a viewing tower where you can actually go up top and watch a little bit. Most the track days do the classrooms up there and is very nice.

Great pics in the tower. Everything from Indy car tests to lightning strikes to motorcycle races. Especially some old guy on a purple F3!!

I love me some Putnam Park. Seen everything from wins there to the death of a friend 3 feet away. The memories good and bad and crashes to victories. Putnam will always have a special part in my heart.