Trayvon Martin case will not go to the Grand Jury

[magley64]

now if someone has you pinned to the ground, how do you draw and fire?

how far would their chest be from the end of the barrel?

[kawi kid]

You first. I think I have a micrometer you can borrow.

Lame. We changed our minds we didn't wanna make you remove your thunderwear

[Scruit]

Lame. We changed our minds we didn't wanna make you remove your thunderwear

The Jockstrap O'Death is back in style -for this week at least. I added a laser sight to the bersa and it won't fit in my IWB holster any more, but the JOD fits it fine. Will have to run up to blackwing and get a new IWB this weekend.

[kawi kid]

now if someone has you pinned to the ground, how do you draw and fire?

how far would their chest be from the end of the barrel?

You can fire the gun from the compressed position easily. The slide only needs a few inches to operate.

[kawi kid]

The Jockstrap O'Death is back in style -for this week at least. I added a laser sight to the bersa and it won't fit in my IWB holster any more, but the JOD fits it fine. Will have to run up to blackwing and get a new IWB this weekend.

I'm gonna call for another concealment solutions probably next week so I have it for the beach.

[Scruit]

now if someone has you pinned to the ground, how do you draw and fire?

how far would their chest be from the end of the barrel?

Depends on many factors. What type of holster and where? Where Martin's legs tight around Zimmerman's waist? Was he in low mount (martin's butt on zimmerman's belly) or high mount (martin's knees under zimmermans armpits)? Was Martin punching (therefore not trapping zimmerman's arms, leaving him free to draw)?

I would still say I would expect the bullet to have an upwards trajectory (at least until it hit bone). The upwards trajectory would be very telling because it woud be inconsistent with them both standing.

[smashweights]

I read the full police report. The spent round WAS ejected and was found using a metal detector. The pistol has a 7+1 capacity and the evidence inventory accounts for every round as 1 spent cartridge, 6 live rounds in the magazine and 1 loose live round that was in the chamber at the time the pistol was secured and made safe by SPD.

How long are your arms? I'm 6'2" and my arms outstreched sideways are about that same distance fingertip to fingertip. That means 3' is about from my fingertip to the my sternum if my arm is stretched out sideways. Certainly not "half an arm's length".

One of the witnesses stated (in the police report) that Martin had Zimmerman "mounted MMA style". That would give you about 2' distance diagonally sternum-to-sternum.

I didn't read the full autopsy yet - but I would expect a shot fired from the the person on the floor that strikes the chest of the person above would be travelling in an upwards trajectory front to back.

This witness account would make sense with his injuries. The scratches on the back of the head could be the head slamming back into the sidewalk as blows landed to the face (broken nose, black eyes).

[Scruit]

I just watched an interview with a Martin family lawyer. They acknowledge now that Martin attacked Zimmerman but argue that Martin "had to" attack Zimmerman because Zimmernan was "chasing him with a gun".

This goes back to one of the first question I asked... *When* did the gun come into play? Did he have it in his hand as he was following Martin? Or did it stay in the holster until Martin had already started the physical confrontation?

Just because I have something on me while I follow someone doesn't mean I followed them "with an X". If I have a leatherman on my belt then would you say I Followed them with a knife?" What about "Followed them with a pair of boxer shorts"??

If the Martin family wants me to believe that Martin struck Zimmerman in self defense because Zimmerman "Followed Martin with a gun" then they will have to prove to me that Martin KNEW Zimmerman had a gun.

I believe the fact that Martin stopped running and turned around to face Zimmerman is strong evidence that Martin did not know about the gun. So then what?

Did Zimmerman produce the gun while they were standing face-to-face talking and Martin attacked Zimmerman upon seeing the gun? Then Martin is acting in self defense and Zimmerman is the initiator of the violent part of the confrontation.

Did Martin attack Zimmerman simply because he was being followed? It's not illegal for follow someone in public, so Zimmermand actions, while unwise, would not be ground to attack him - making Martin the instigator and Zimmerman would be defending.

The attorney also said that Zimmerman's injuries are not life threatening. They don't have to be - you can use deadly force when you have an honest fear of serious injury or death. Imagine yourself pinned to the ground and punched hard enough to leave black eyes, broken nose and cuts on your head - now do you think it was reasonable for Zimmerman to feel he was at risk of serious injury or death?

I've had my nose broken before - it's not fun. It was while sparring. Now, I stayed in and kept sparring, but that's because it's a (relatively) controlled environment and my life is not in danger. Given that same bell-ringing injury (and the loss of breathing through the nose) I can certainly understand why someone with a broken nose and pinned to the floor being punched is going to be in extreme fear.

[Scruit]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/18/justice/florida-teen-shooting-details/index.html?hpt=ju_c2

This is the tidbit I have been waiting for. Now, can he PROVE this?

Zimmerman claimed that Martin had attacked him, hitting him in the nose and knocking him back into the pavement. It was only then, in self-defense, that he'd taken out his gun and shot the teen, he said.

I've wanted to know right from the start exactly when the gun came into play.

Another thought just occurred... If Zimmerman was following Martin with the gun in his hand, such that Martin felt he had to use violence to defend himself, then would he not have said something to his girlfriend? If some guy was following ME with a gun and I was on the phone then that's the first thing I would mention. Or hang up and dial 911. If Martin was in fear of his safety then I why wouldn't he ask his girlfriend for some kind of help, like to call his dad. Or hang up and call his dad who was nearby - or call 911. Basically, the media would have us believe that Zimmerman chased him down with gun out and in his hand, yet Martin made no attempt to summon help via his phone, and instead continued the conversation with his girlfriend - and ultimately willingly engaged in the confrontation that led to the shooting (Telling his girlfriend that he is not going to run any more). None of those behaviors are consistent to being chased by a man with a gun in his hand.

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

Good info.

[Pokey]

He will be exonerated, then he will sue every motherfucker that has tried to ruin him and his family's lives. This whole things was a media mess, and the blatant racist actions and threats from some needs to seriously be addressed.

[20thGix]

Can this guy really believe what he writes?

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/04/george-zimmermans-ammunition/256509/

No i havent read all 14 or 15 pages.......sorry if repost.

[magley64]

I thought that article was fairly well written, and addressed some of the facts I had questioned.

Given it is pretty biased but I think its obvious enough, and just because the author has come to an obvious conclusion doesn't mean his facts are wrong.

Edited May 21, 2012 by magley64

[kawi kid]

Hoooly shit hollow point bullets!!!! Burn that mother effer at the stake!!!!!

[kawi kid]

I thought that article was fairly well written, and addressed some of the facts I had questioned.

Given it is pretty biased but I think its obvious enough, and just because the author has come to an obvious conclusion doesn't mean his facts are wrong.

His facts are misleading. Every police department in the nation uses hollow points. For a person to carry a firearm and not have actually self defense ammunition in it like a fmj or ball ammo is pretty careless. Its another attempt to demonize a normalcy of the gun culture. Now someone unfamiliar with terminology and usage of a hollow point will be saying that racist white man wanted to kill someone for sure!

[20thGix]

I thought that article was fairly well written, and addressed some of the facts I had questioned.

Given it is pretty biased but I think its obvious enough, and just because the author has come to an obvious conclusion doesn't mean his facts are wrong.

His overview of the Reuter's story is fine. The second part of the story it kinda goes down hill.

[Pokey]

His facts are misleading. Every police department in the nation uses hollow points. For a person to carry a firearm and not have actually self defense ammunition in it like a fmj or ball ammo is pretty careless. Its another attempt to demonize a normalcy of the gun culture. Now someone unfamiliar with terminology and usage of a hollow point will be saying that racist white man wanted to kill someone for sure!

My carry guns are loaded with the most lethal ammo I can find, that is the whole point.

[Scruit]

just because the author has come to an oblvious conclusion doesn't mean his facts are wrong.

Fixed.

Carrying hollowpoints makes no difference in his intent. Bullets are deadly - period. There's no such thing as super-deadly bullets. If you think that Ball ammo is designed to wound not kill then you're ludicrously misinformed.

Think about this... In .380 auto many people carry ball ammo because HP expands too quickly to penetrate deeply enough to be reliably effective. In that case, ball ammo is carried for it's superior penetration, and is the mythical "super-deadly bullet".

If Z was carrying explosive-tipped incendiary rounds, then yeah, maybe the article has a point. But he's not. he's carrying HP, the standard round used by police and CCW'ers alike.

[Scruit]

My carry guns are loaded with the most lethal ammo I can find, that is the whole point.

My carry guns are loaded with the ammunition most likely to stop the threat as quickly possible. If the BG dies as a result of me stopping him attacking me then that's unfortunate.

[Pokey]

Plenty of assumptions in that dumbass author's article, just more bullshit that media types need to keep to themselves.

[kawi kid]

I use jacketed unicorn tusk. Its magical.

[Scruit]

I use jacketed unicorn tusk. Its magical.

I use jacketed unicorn tusk too. Jacketed in fairy wings. When they hit the bad guy then don't kill him, then inspire him with a sense of social joy and make him want to hug me, not rob me. After sharing his deepest,darkest feelings and experiencing the joy of getting it off his chest we sing kumbaya for hours until he falls in a magical dream-filled sleep full of friendly dragons and pixies.

Then I taze him in the mansack.

[kawi kid]

I use jacketed unicorn tusk too. Jacketed in fairy wings. When they hit the bad guy then don't kill him, then inspire him with a sense of social joy and make him want to hug me, not rob me. After sharing his deepest,darkest feelings and experiencing the joy of getting it off his chest we sing kumbaya for hours until he falls in a magical dream-filled sleep full of friendly dragons and pixies.

Then I taze him in the mansack.

Lolololol awesome!

[magley64]

I obviously don't know much about guns, don't really need to know that much...

What are they designed to do? Damage things by placing large holes in them.

What is the result when used on a living organism? Severe bodily injury, and depending on location, death. There is no other reason to carry a gun on your person.

Your intent is clear, you're not carrying for self defense, that would be a bulletproof vest, you're carrying simply to injure or kill someone.

Now if you're just going along minding your own business, and someone attacks you, by all means, they took their life into their own hands.

On the other hand, if you go out of your way to harass someone, then can't handle the response, that's a shitty reason to pull a gun on someone.

[Scruit]

I obviously don't know much about guns, don't really need to know that much...

What are they designed to do? Damage things by placing large holes in them.

What is the result when used on a living organism? Severe bodily injury, and depending on location, death. There is no other reason to carry a gun on your person.

Your intent is clear, you're not carrying for self defense, that would be a bulletproof vest, you're carrying simply to injure or kill someone.

Now if you're just going along minding your own business, and someone attacks you, by all means, they took their life into their own hands.

On the other hand, if you go out of your way to harass someone, then can't handle the response, that's a shitty reason to pull a gun on someone.

I just hit that point where I realize I've been wasting my breath talking to you.

You have no clue about guns, no clue about law and no clue about self-defense.