Old dog

[Scruit]

We have a dog, a toy poodle called Bean. She's 14 and her health has been declining remarkably this last year.

She's have liver enzyme problems for a few years and that's controlled by medication. She's suddenly started developing warts which indicates an immune system problem. She'd almost completely deaf, and just today my wife noticed that Bean's pupils no longer dilate. Her eyes are cloudy but still look ok using an otoscope, except that the pupils are completely non-reactive to light.

She's very sluggish. She's already been refused tooth cleaning by the vet because of concerns that she wouldn't survive being put under. She no longer runs around, can't react to verbal commands so we're trying to retrain her using purely sign language. Most websites I checked list the upper end of the life expectancy of a toy poodle at 14 years.

So the situation is this: I know she's in decline and it's time to start talking with my wife about how much medical intervention we are willing to put her through and how we will decide when it's her time. I know she's ok right now and it's probably going to be a while before we have to make that decision, but that time will come and we have to be ready for it.

So how do you go about judging a dog's quality of life? Any how do your determine when it's time to put her to sleep?

[twowheelsnake]

Not meaning to sound harsh man, but it sounds like your dog isn't enjoying its life at all.

[Mykill]

Not meaning to sound harsh man, but it sounds like your dog isn't enjoying its life at all.

That's because of the owner not its health.

Its hard to say. I know when our last dog went he just collapsed in the yard. Was "ok" other than that.....

[ReconRat]

She will say when. She will lie down and refuse to get up or eat.

From experience, it could be now, 3 months, maybe 6 months.

And possibly longer, it's the will to live that keeps them here.

One of my dogs was very old, blind and deaf for quite a while.

She lived over two years after what appeared to be cancer, before she gave up.

Be careful she doesn't walk off into traffic, or to be alone.

[Scruit]

That's because of the owner not its health.

Seriously? I'm talking about my dog being sick and probably needing to be put to sleep soon and you're taking the opportunity to get a dig in?

[Scruit]

Has anyone ever had a blind and deaf dog? I struggle to see what kind of quality if life there is there, but it may be that dogs adapt easily.

[Steve Butters]

if you have to ask this question, its probably about time....ive been in this situation just a year ago....i made the same post as you, with similar issues with my dog....had her put down 2 months later...i thought the same as you that shes ok for now, but really it was me just not wanting to let go....i miss her like crazy, and i was sure i never wanted another pet after having to let her go....but it gets better over time....kinda upset just typing this right now, and pulled up my old thread for you to look at....i wont be re-reading it myself because its still painful....but it gets better, and i own 3 pets now after saying i would never have another...once i finish school and have some spare time in my schedule, i will be looking for a new dog i think also....no dog can ever replace how great my last one was, but i have room in my heart for her memory as well as other pets......ive moved on to keeping mainly reptiles, but i love them just as much as my dog (well...besides my gecko...anybody want one? lol)....ill be crushed when my beardies are at their time, especially my male...goodluck, and try to make a decision that is right for your dog, and not just for yourself.

i think by the time the animal is old enough to warrant one of these threads, its probably about time....i think with me, i knew it was her time but i was in denial and just looking for people to tell me itll be ok and that she is still happy

heres my thread if you want the advice everyone else was nice enough to share with me

http://www.ohioriders.net/showthread.php?t=73375

[Steve Butters]

Has anyone ever had a blind and deaf dog? I struggle to see what kind of quality if life there is there, but it may be that dogs adapt easily.

read my post above this one (you typed this reply while i was typing mine lol)

my dog went deaf to where all she heard was clapping, she was over 90% blind....she was going down hill for awhile but in the end this is why we had her put down....she got to the point she couldnt find her way around the yard...she would go out to pee and not be able to find her way back, and since she couldnt hear or see too well when we helped her it scared her....she was running into stuff and hurting herself....its no way for a dog to live....if she was born that way, it would be different, but to get that way is sad...... put on a headset and close your eyes and try to do chores around your house....then imagine that 24/7...its no way to live

[slingingchic]

Growing up I had a mix poodle/cocker spaniel. We got her in 83, finally put her down in 00, she went blind in the last year and had so much trouble walking in the last couple of months on top of other health problems, she was on meds for about 3 years. We had to guide her outdoors with a broom or hands to make a shadow (that's the only thing that kept her walking straight). Made the decision when she was outside and just laid outside in her own mess not wanting to get up. Pretty sure that was her way of telling us it's time.

[Scruit]

It'll be tough. We've had her since she was a puppy and she had become such a huge part of our lives and the source of many of our inside jokes. We have this one thing between us which is that no matter what she has done or how mad i have been at her, if i lie on my left side on the floor and pat my chest then this means "all is forgiven, i'm not mad any more" she always responds by running over and flopping down with her back to my chest expecting, and getting, belly rubs. She's done thins since she was 6mo, and it is 100% effective.

I guess when the time comes that she can't do that any more then i know she's really badly off.

[jblosser]

Maybe the vet could advise if in his/her opinion Bean is in pain?

If she doesn't seem in pain to you it doesn't mean she's not in pain.

You ought to find out, for both of you.

[twowheelsnake]

My parents have a blind, deaf and diabetic cat. We can't place when exactly they got it but it's sometime before 1997. It can no longer get up on the couch and it's back legs don't bend at the knees. I wish they would just put him down because I hate to see him like that.

[slingingchic]

My parents have a blind, deaf and diabetic cat. We can't place when exactly they got it but it's sometime before 1997. It can no longer get up on the couch and it's back legs don't bend at the knees. I wish they would just put him down because I hate to see him like that.

Yes they should

[slingingchic]

Maybe the vet could advise if in his/her opinion Bean is in pain?

If she doesn't seem in pain to you it doesn't mean she's not in pain.

You ought to find out, for both of you.

Yes, I agree, talk with the vet

[Scruit]

We're going to see a vet about the fixed wide dilation - worried it might be glaucoma, not symptom of a neurological problem. Being bilateral I'm not as worried about detached retina, but I'd like to help her keep her sight as long as she can. Will ask about pain while we are there. (Amy just reminded me that Bean has arthritis in her spine)

I'm going to start recording observations and share that with my vet. That will give us something to compare with as time goes on to see if thing really are declining. Things like "can she jump up onto the sofa", "is she eating a normal portion of food" and ". There was a time she could jump from the floor to the top of the back of the sofa - nowadays she's less than 50/50 on even attempting to jump up to the seat. There are good days and bad days. She spends most of her time sleeping wherever my wife is. Whenever I see her around she can be actually pretty lively (nothing like when she was young). She no longer does her frenzies - but she always recognizes me and is always good about eating her food.

Someone once told me to list the 4 things your dog likes to do the most, then when it can't do 3 of them any more due to old age/poor health then it's time to think about if the quality of life is still there. My dog likes to eat, shit, piss and bark. She shows no signs of slowing down on either of those fronts.

[crb]

Sorry to hear, hopefully you get more time with her. At least you know in.advance to somewhat prepare. I lost it when someone killed my dog(actually my grandparents dog) okay I was her boy. Enjoy your time

[Revelstoker]

Sorry to hear you are going through this. We lost our lab of 13 years two years ago. Very tough so I wish you the best.

Timing is never right but from my two experiences, it is a lot easier on yourself if you decide the date and make it happen vs just finding them lying on the ground. Deaf, blind and struggling to go out and do their biz is no great life.

Talk to the family, agree on a date. Make a big ta-do or just go to the vet. Sooner the better so don't prolong the inevitable.

[Scruit]

Trust me to take this kind of thing and make it into a speadsheet. It's how I deal with shit - I break it down into logic and attack it head on.

Anyway, I made up an excel that my wife and I can both list observations in. Tracking how well she climbs stairs, jumps on the sofa, her appetite, how she greets us etc. I'm hoping that we'll find that bad days like today are rare.

This time last year:

Sofa: Jumps to with no hesitation

Appetite: Eats quickly

Stairs: Runs

Sleeping: 50% of day

Hearing: Normal

Vision: Normal

Pupils: Normal

Reaction to food prep: Excited, runs around, jumps, spins counter-clockwise a lot

Greeting: Jumping

Movement: Runs everywhere

Today:

Sofa: Hesitates, a few false starts but jumps up eventually most of the time

Appetite: Eats raw quickly, slow on dry

Stairs: Struggles with some steps

Sleeping: Most of the day

Hearing: Responds to loud claps only

Vision: Cloudy eyes, but no signs of loss of vision

Pupils: Fixed/nonreactive, wide dilation

Reaction to food prep: Spins, walks around

Greeting: Usually walks to door

Movement: Usually walks, runs when excited

Arthritis: Jumping is difficult

Edited June 4, 2012 by Scruit

[crb]

Aww

[swingset]

So how do you go about judging a dog's quality of life? Any how do your determine when it's time to put her to sleep?

For me, when they're in pain or discomfort to get through their day and medication or relief has a minimal effect, it's the right thing to do.

It's hard, it sucks, especially when you still see that spark but sometimes it's just the best thing.

Sorry to hear, btw, that's truly the worst part about a good dog is how short they're with us.

[Gump]

My dogs 13 and 85% deaf, has cataracts, hips bother her and steps. She breathes heavy a lot for some reason and sleeps 80% of the day. No med's. She still seems happy. Likes to go exploring in the woods with me still, follows me around like a puppy. Disoriented at times or clueless. I think it will be her time when she can't enjoy anything or looses mobilty. Sorry about your dog.

[2talltim]

I have a husky that's is 18yrs old, she has had siesures most of her life, and id mostly deaf and now is getting sores that won't heal. I too will be facing this decision soon. I picked her out of the litter the day after she was born. I figured if she stops eating and don't get up it is time. She is outside and loves it there, if we bring her into the house she just sits by the door and wants out. so I feel you pain about your pup.

[slingingchic]

Awe....Bean looks like my old dog except black with a few white patches

[Scruit]

This dog is a trip. When she was a puppy we nicknamed her Houbeanie (like Houdini) becuase she kept escaping from the kitchen when we left the house despite us putting a baby gate up. This caused some long debates about how she could be escaping, so finally we left her in the kitchen and "went out" (actually went out and looked in the window) She was squeezing between the tiny gaps between the bars of the baby gate like an octopus. Well, looked more like toothpaste squeezing out a tube.

Then there was the time when Amy and I were sat watching TV and bean jumped up onto the arm of the chair next to Amy. We were so engrossed in the show we didn't notice that the dog was perched precariously on the arm of the chair with her butt pointing at the side my wife's face, taking a dump.

Yes, you read that right. Little brown play-doh fun factory style. I noticed the smell and looked over right as that little slice of heaven was about to drop and land on Amy's shoulder. My eyes must have been as big as dinner plates because Amy asked me what was wrong, and I answered by yelling "BEAN!!", diving out of my chair, grabbing the dog and pulling her away from the sofa. Yes, I saved my wife's shoulder from being befouled. No, my gallantry didn't earn me any nookie that night.

[madcat6183]

When we had to put our last one down, the dog knew. He hated the vet with a passion, and the day before he was going to have to be put down, dad was in the office where Geno would usually lay under his desk all day, and he wasn't there.

Dad went to check on him, and he was laying in the foyer with his favorite toy next to him, passed on.

They can tell when it's time, and if you know it is and have made the schedule a few days ahead of time, they will know. It's not cruel or mean to ensure their quality of life is what matters most.